No denying that those draws were lucky but they've been pretty hard done by with injuries, at least in comparison to Liverpool. KDB was their best player last season and he's hardly played, Mendy has been out for months, Fernandinho is arguably their most important player and has missed a number of matches, and there's others as well.
Varchester City 18/19 discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
For those who follow City closely, how do you see them rotating or prioritizing fixtures during that really tough run they'll have in the first 5-6 weeks after the international break? I'm sure some will depend on how close the title race is but Champions League is supposedly their obsession which they've never done before and could have a great chance at.
Imho, this rant is up there with that "other" famous one. Bravo sir.
Mendy's played less than 20 games in 2 seasons. He's a good player, but me calling him shite is due to him being injured 90% of the time.
If Danilo at £26m as a bench option is a good player, then half our squad are good players automatically.
I don't know why you've gone into a tangent about Jose, his signings definitely haven't been as good but no one's argued that. My point was that City have had their share of bad signings (contrary to what the person I've quoted said), and it remains a fact that in the same summer we spent £150m on Lukaku, Matic and Lindelof, you spent £280m. You've spent £200m more than us since Pep got here and you can afford to bin bad or average signings or bench them as 'squad options'.
And fyi, Jose's signings were actually reasonably decent. Better than Van Gaal anyway. Pogba, Ibrahimovich, Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof, Dalot.. all good. Fred played very well against PSG and I believe will come good. Mikhi was very good in his first season when we won the EL, as was Bailly (who I don't rate), Sanchez has been terrible. A lot of those players have improved us. To put an extra £200m into perspective though.. maybe not 3 Pogba's, but you'd get Kyle Walker, Bernado Silva, Sane and Sterling. Or if you think signing good players is only exclusive to City, this season you'd get Sancho, De Light and still have change.
City's success isn't down to some genius from the scouts, nor is it down to Pep's, it's down to money just as much as PSG's is. Anyone who thinks elsewise is deluded. Now Liverpool on the other hand - that's a team that's pretty much got every big money signing bang on since Klopp arrived. They've done it by spending less than Pep has, and unlike you or PSG, they've done it through money they've actually earnt.
Give SAF a blank cheque and he'll do the same. Heck even Klopp spending plenty but less than Pep is matching him this season.
Daft posts usually get called out so it wouldn't be unusual.
It’s not just money, but playing style. Pep’s playing style is more dominant than Fergie’s. They always try to play their football at home or away and try to attack and not put the bus after 2:0. Only blind doesn’t see and stubborn doesn’t admit that Pep’s City is the best team in EPL ever, they confirmed this last season by breaking almost all the records. My opinion is that we will never be the dominant force in Europe playing counter-attacking football. I do not want to see my team parking the bus at Old Trafford against Barca, City, PSG and is waiting for our moment in the counterattack like a small club.
Give SAF a blank cheque and he'll do the same. Heck even Klopp spending plenty but less than Pep is matching him this season.
The thing that nags at me is whilst City are obviously ‘big spenders’, somebody told me yesterday that they have never spent more than £60m on a single player (is that right?) and in the meantime in the last 5 years, it’s not as though we haven’t been able to compete with them in the market. Consequently, as much as I’d like to use the ‘flouting the rules’ argument, it seems a bit hollow and sounds increasingly like we are clutching at straws because they could win everything. On this final point, these feckers are just 15 games away from winning the lot, which makes my blood run cold. For me, this is about stability and having the best manager in the World rather than outspending us.
Give SAF a blank cheque and he'll do the same. Heck even Klopp spending plenty but less than Pep is matching him this season.
Yep. Imagine if pep hadnt had de bruyne and aguero and needed players there. Our lukaku and pogba signings were to fill big holes that city didn't have
The question is simple. Would city be where they are today - close to a quadruple- without breaking the rules most clubs abide by? If the answer is no, then it’s a simple case of cheating to get ahead. If you think the answer is yes you’d have an incredibly difficult time explaining. Dressing apathy up as enlightment and being righteous enough to accept their ascent isn’t helpful when looking for fairness in sport.
Secondly, the haven’t spent more than 60m argument is one of the weakest most nonsensical arguments I’ve ever heard. Apart from the fact tha Mahrez cost that, for positions they already had two plus 50m signings, there have been about 20 players ever signed for greater than 60m. These types of signings are the extreme minority, eyebrow raising freak signings. This will change as time goes on but pointing to city’s virtue by way of saying they don’t spend more than 60m on a player is truly pointless. In fact out of the 50 most expensive signings ever, Man City have made 6 of them, the highest of any team in the world. (Barca and real also have 6)
Lastly, I would say every post here thinks we should be doing better. I would say the huge majority agree we have the means to compete at the very top, lucky us, but tell that to every other club. The fact that we do, and that we should be doing better, and that we have made huge mistakes in recent years is an entirely separate point to the fact that city, as a stand-alone club, have emerged from a nothing team that still can’t sell out their stadium to being on the verge of something even the greatest ever sides managed in the space of ten years. It should not be taboo or petty to query the means this has happened. And I say that as a fan of one of the clubs who should still be able to compete. Swansea,Schalke, Burnley, Lyon, Hoffenheim and pretty much very side they’ve taken a place from in latter stages? They shouldn’t have bothered to show up.
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I think we are unecessarily getting worked up and bitter about them. Historically most clubs do not compete. Its always few clubs that have been able to compete over the years. And I do not expect that all manner of investments in clubs will be similar in this day and age. They got outside investment, so what? Get on with it because that's the reality of this day and age.
Outside investment is fine. Competition is great. Cheating is not. We all place different worth on the value of fairness in sport it seems. I’ve explained my opinion in the post you quoted.
Your post highlights my point - we are starting to sound like we are bleating. Personally I don’t care what ‘other’ clubs do, just us. It is of course unlikely that City would be about to sweep the board without the massive investment they’ve had, but let’s be fair, the rules were brought in 4 years after the Abu Dhabi mob took over and it did feel a bit like the rules had been brought in to stop the likes of them and PSG and protect the position of Utd, Bayern, RM etc rather than ‘protecting the small clubs’. I also think that we need to be careful what we wish for. If City and PSG challenge the whole premise of FFP and win on the grounds of it being ‘anti competitive’, the gloves would really be off in the transfer market. When this first reared it’s head in 2014, UEFA tinkered with the ‘rules’ to avoid the problem by allowing losses of ‘£30m, but if it is defeated completely, it would be a green light for other ‘mega investors’ to pile in and before we know it, we’d have Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, Villa etc all being able to outgun us. In the meantime, we need to concentrate on what we need to do to get back up there. In the last three seasons, Leicester and Chelsea have won the league, so we should be capable of at least that.
It only can be accused of bleating because we are united fans. It’s a perfectly fair point to make. If you don’t care about what other clubs do then where do we draw the line? Paying a ref off? Doping? Cheating is cheating it really is that simple, and in the adult world an independent point should be allowed to be made without it being placed in the context of a totally different point. City simply should not be where they are and wouldn’t be without cheating. Who’s to say who would have won titles in the last 8 years, post Ferguson especially. Maybe Liverpool or Tottenham? Maybe they’d have grown further and won a cl then. Where certain players may have ended up. Perhaps Dortmund or Bayern might have coaxed sane or de bruyne. Maybe juventus could have got aguero. And so on. One team cheats, the entire balance of the game is ruined. As for the mythical uefa elite. It doesn’t exist.
Inter weren’t just “untouched”, they were awarded Juve’s title, able to take two of their best players and essentially awarded the following season’s Scudetto with Milan’s point deduction leading them to focus on the Champions League.
Inter’s domination of the late ‘00s Serie A and their treble were all direct results of Calciopoli.
Kind of proves the point that the concept of “devalued” achievements is meaningless as nobody cares that Inter’s success in that era wasn’t really earned and required a huge amount of luck.
I do not think any sincere city fan would not admit that they cheated but even at that they argue that they were given a target and were on course to achieving it but the goal posts were changed and so they cheated to stay in line and got punished for it.
If they are still doing the same thing they were accused of doing before, then I'd be shouting on rooftops that they should be relegated to league 2.
We didn’t moan so much about City when we still competed. The same goes for Chelsea. I really cannot recall any of this hysteria back in the early/mid naughties because of course, we still had the magician as our manager and we still won major trophies and competed.
Terrible opinion.
If Guardiola would be the best PL manager ever then he would easily win the PL this season.
And by the way he has lost with the best Bayern Munich squad ever against three different spanish sides in the CL semi-final
Are you sure this word shouldn't be 'investment '?
Everybody knows and accepts that without the investment of the ADUG, City would still be a yo yo team or possibly not even in this division.
There would be no David Silva or Sergio Aguero causing you nightmares, your owners would've been a whole lot richer, and your trophy haul greater.
That investment was like a breath of fresh air to the also rans in the league, who all wanted City to break into the monopoly you clubs in the top 4 had.
Your statement,
'As for the mythical uefa elite. It doesn’t exist', I find extraordinary.
Surely you realise that if the G14 didn't exist, there wouldn't be any FFP rules?
If not, you need to track back into the history of it and have a look at the pressure Platini was being put under by yourselves, the Milans, Munich, Juventus etc.
It is common knowledge, that they wanted to stop this kind of investment which would ultimately take money out of their pockets.
Unfortunately for the likes of Milan, they tripped themselves up.
Unlike with the English having huge TV money, the Italians didn't have the money to compete.
Therefore nobody wanted to buy them, as new investors wouldn't be allowed to invest the right kind of money in the team, so a Catch 22.
The FFP rules have since been tweaked and altered in line with the G14 demands.
All is well documented.
City's crimes?
They Bought some footballers from clubs who overcharged for them.
The playing down of their results fuels their desire to prove themselves and has thus an opposite effect - it helps them to achieve more by keeping them hungry for success. The media helped them a lot by not going overboard about their record-breaking season.
Their success is not only about money, it is also about recruitment and coaching. For the money Guardiola has spent one can buy 11 Sigurdssons. Sigurdsson cost about as much as Bernardo and Sane, more than Ederson, much more than Jesus and only several millions less than Sterling and Stones. They have done incredibly well in the transfer market.
Their success is not only about money, it is also about recruitment and coaching. For the money Guardiola has spent one can buy 11 Sigurdssons. Sigurdsson cost about as much as Bernardo and Sane, more than Ederson, much more than Jesus and only several millions less than Sterling and Stones. They have done incredibly well in the transfer market.
I don’t believe in statements generally that categorise every fan under one umbrella. Huge amounts of people I know and probably on here too, werent happy with city and Chelsea’s emergence in the manner it happened. If there was less complaining, which there may or may not have been, its because there wasn’t much talk of rules being broken. The allegations made against city in recent months simply can’t be brushed aside in my opinion. I think even a non football fan given a summary would wonder why there is so much apathy.
I personally believe that time will tell a huge amount and that many people with their head in the sand will look quite naive.
You have a more lenient view that’s fine. I don’t think sentences that include ‘so they cheated to stay in line’ should ever be used in justification of something. That’s just me. It’s pretty clear there have been deliberate underhand actions at city. The only downside of the spiegel allegations is it gives them time to get their house in order. The numbers simply do not add up.
Yes I agree with your point that we should not view cheating with leniency however if their claims of goal posts shifting have any truth then the regulators aren't without fault in all this. I look forward to damning evidences from the likes of speigel indicting not only their current but also their post-sanction shady ways and very damning punishment to match.
If I'm being honest I really couldn't care less. I'm just looking forward to a Jadon, Neves, Ndombele and Alderweireld summer.
Man City have put full strength teams out every time they could in cup competitions and their reward is already a cup in the bag and a semi final on the horizon.
They've been lucky regarding draws and sometimes you need that bit of luck, like the treble season in 99.
We should just concentrate on the battle for fourth and not worry about what's going on at the top of the league.
They've been lucky regarding draws and sometimes you need that bit of luck, like the treble season in 99.
We should just concentrate on the battle for fourth and not worry about what's going on at the top of the league.
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I’ve discussed a lot of these points at length so apologies if it seems like I’m giving you short shrift. City fans however do see determined to peddle the super clubs argument but can never point to who exactly are these immune clubs who have stayed at the top. I’m guessing clubs in mind are
Juventus - who went to serie b, no questions asked and have had the same issues as most Italian clubs due to financial mismanagement in Italy
Inter and ac Milan? Don’t make me laugh. These clubs are in ruin and haven’t been a threat in almost and over a decade respectively.
Barca and real? Two clubs that have had massive dominance but most recognise this has coincided with two of the greatest players ever at their clubs.
United? Yeah we’re a great example of how the top clubs always stay at the top.
It’s a nice line, and is probably comforting in terms of trying to moralise the cheating (breaking rules is cheating) but it stands up to very little scrutiny.
You seem to think there should be no financial regulation, which would be great for a club backed by the full wealth of a corrupt nation
If you are bothered I’ve pkenty of posts in here outlining my thoughts, it’s very unlikely we will find common ground, there is close to nothing I respect about the club you support. I think they’re the epitome of the ugly side of the game.
Not a day passes that I’m not looking forward to what comes next at united, we’ve been blessed with an incredible period of ups and downs. It’s all independent to the fact that I think city are a stain on the modern game though.
Fair enough, we agree to disagree, no hard feelings.
FYI Juventus, among other clubs were penalised for match fixing, not financial mismanagement, unless your meaning paying referees.
You are correct about the Milans, about 10 years ago would be about right, then they agreed to FFP and you know the rest.
Barca and Real, I didn't mention as they already had the TV rights in Spain that the other clubs weren't permitted to share, so monopoly already there.
United? Gill was the instigator of FFP to G14 and subsequently UEFA.
Only after ADUG started investing did he want to 'protect clubs from becoming another Leeds United'.
Hmmm!! I'm sure Gill really cared about Leeds United.
Just to clarify re juventus, Italian football generally went through a spell of woeful miscalculations and every team suffered, eg lazio Parma etc. My point was just that no team is exempt from nosediving if they fail to operate within the rules. I’m sure the big clubs were protecting themselves, but when the alternative is literally an impossibility to even remotely compete something had to be done. Look at what city have done while allegedly operating within rules.to argue against ffp is madness imo. But anyway, glad to discuss.
You killed the chance of other smaller clubs getting bought out by Sugar Daddy owners. There would have been a glut of multi-millionaire's looking to get into the PL a decade ago. Your takeover & the subsequent state funding has made these investors look elsewhere. A multi-billionaire wouldn't even get involved nowadays. ADUG have invested over £2 Billion & you are still not profitable over a decade on. No businessman is going to want to get into those waters.
The lower ranking clubs may have cheered your takeover at the start. Now you are seen as the parasite that is taking over it's host. Now knowing what they know now they'll wish your owners had never arrived. They'll never get to see their teams lift even 1 of the lesser trophies let alone compete for a EL or CL place. I'm sure many clubs wanted the Cartel broken. I don't think they wanted 1 club to form it's own cartel.
and at the same time I could say that actually it is FPP what is preventing other potential "sugar daddies" from entering to the Premier league" finding themselves unable to inject their own money into their team. There is a good article by The Economist that looks into this same issue with FPP consolidating the position of the big, richer teams
Since 2010 they have spent 1.4 billion on players, more than anybody else in the world. It's absolutely about spending, of course the fact that they have had a genuine plan for how they want to spend that money (long term goal to get Guardiola) but the main reason they're able to make such a success of it is because they have spent an insane amount of money on not only the squad but coaches, the manager, everything.
They've gone about their spending in a smarter fashion than say PSG. They haven't spent huge on one player, but instead have bought in a load of the best upcoming players (Sterling, Sane, De Bruyne Jesus etc) and basically stockpiled them, building a ridiculous squad where they have world class players on the bench for every match, something no other club has the financial power to manage. They can pay wages which mean that players don't kick up a fuss if they're on the bench.
Basically, yeah it's not just because they spent money, but there's plenty of clubs who are very well run but could never dream of winning a quadruple because they simply don't have the stupid amount of money City do.
Fecking hope so, the last thing we need is more clubs like you, thanks.
Agree that it’s not where you’re from but how you support your club that counts. I know plenty of locals who purport to support either club but you wouldn’t want them in the trenches with you.
However, I think el magico’s real issue is with that particular poster rather than where he’s from. And let’s have it right here - @SER19 is the worst possible type of football fan out there. Why? Well for starters, you only have to look at his long-standing campaign of trolling City fans on here while at the same time claiming City are a pointless club. Yep, so pointless that he can never stay away from the City threads, even the morning after United have been knocked out of the FA Cup quarter-final when most United fans worth their salt would be more interested in that instead. Some fan that, and one you wouldn’t want to be associated with regardless of whether he was born in Trafford or Timbuktu.
On the plus side for you United fans, the more time he spends on the City threads means he spends less time on the United threads and that’s something you ought to be grateful for because you only have to see some of the stuff he posts in the United section of the forum - particularly that hilarious car crash of a thread he made early on in the season calling on everyone to start protesting against the club (but calling on others to do it rather than himself) - to see what a big girl’s blouse he is.
Manchester City: bringing down the ‘evil cartel’ by attempting to turn English football into a one camel race and preventing genuine sporting projects like Liverpool and Spurs from attaining the success they meritocratically deserve to put Abu Dhabi on the map.
Leicester and Monaco have won league in the past few years, only to have their best players poached by oil clubs, and any hope of sustained success scuppered. But I assume in your small mind, that’s good for the sport because it’s not one of the authentic super clubs you have an inferiority complex about that has done it?
There’s nothing wrong with investment to compete, but an Arab state spending circa £2b is anti-sport, and completely contradicts your alleged stance of being against established unfair advantage.
Do you not care about the human rights record of your beloved Master and his family? And the fact that your club has been used as nothing more than a platform to project that dubious state onto the world?
Do you not care about the modern slavery and complete lack of working class, gay and womens rights there? The ironic thing is, you probably vote Labour.
Great post with fair points.
Plastic club.
What preachy and antoginistic bollocks. Not all clubs have the luxury of spending 1.4 billion pounds to buy success. Just because a club plays a different playing style to Pep"s glorious philosophy doesn't make them "small" (see Atletico Madrid, Juve or Real, for that matter)
The only club challenging City for the league had to sell their best player to finance strengthening elsewhere. It's not exactly great competition when Spurs budget is threadbare and Chelsea/Arsenal/United have been in self-destruct and rebuilding mode over the past 2 years (longer for United).
Calling whoever doesn't agree with you blind or stubborn is a bit. Well stupid.
Looks like another trophy in the bag. Domestic treble up for grabs which is a great achievement of course but I can't believe how easily they are getting them. Their cup draws are always favourable. Great side but I'll never think of them as one of the best ever.