Venezuelan affair

sun_tzu

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utdalltheway said:
No thread on the capture of the US guys down in Venezuela who allegedly tried to oust Maduro?
I’ve seen a few articles now and each is saying these guys were not sent there by the US government.
But then again I’d expect them to say that. The profile of Goudreau makes him look like a bit of a trump fan.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiZmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY25ld3MuY29tL25ld3Mvd29ybGQvbWluZC1ibG93aW5nLXN0b3J5LWV4LWdyZWVuLWJlcmV0LXdoby10cmllZC1vdXN0LXZlbmV6dWVsYS1uMTIwMTk4MdIBLGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY25ld3MuY29tL25ld3MvYW1wL25jbmExMjAxOTgx?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en
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I listen to pod save the world and they mentioned this

Could hardly believe it was true given how badly executed it was...
 

Abizzz

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From the guardian piece on it I gather it was as shambolic as you'd expect any US intervention in current times to be. Including the cover up of being involved.

Pompeo all but admitted it when saying the "US aren't directly involved" too. The entire world understands what that means.
 

RedTiger

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utdalltheway said:
No thread on the capture of the US guys down in Venezuela who allegedly tried to oust Maduro?
I’ve seen a few articles now and each is saying these guys were not sent there by the US government.
But then again I’d expect them to say that. The profile of Goudreau makes him look like a bit of a trump fan.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiZmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY25ld3MuY29tL25ld3Mvd29ybGQvbWluZC1ibG93aW5nLXN0b3J5LWV4LWdyZWVuLWJlcmV0LXdoby10cmllZC1vdXN0LXZlbmV6dWVsYS1uMTIwMTk4MdIBLGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY25ld3MuY29tL25ld3MvYW1wL25jbmExMjAxOTgx?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en
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He's not just a bit of a Trump fan, he's been pictured wearing the maga hat as have some of his employees.
 

Ekkie Thump

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This guy's always worth listening to when it comes to things like this:

 

mu4c_20le

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This could be made into a movie. Ex special forces failed in various endeavors before being given an assignment by the government to feck with another country
 

Cloud7

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As our closest neighbors, all these goings on in Venezuela make me really tense. We already have a massive influx of people over here after the economy tanked over there, and now all this US intervention, it makes me nervous. I only hope it doesn't reach the point of an open conflict, as that won't be good at all.
 

Silva

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they've now deleted all the tweets they sent out about the mission

the most accurate description of these people is probably mockney's rants about james bond
 

BobbyManc

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Exposes what an absolute farce it is that the US and its allies were (still are) trying to proclaim Juan Guaidó as the “legitimate” president there
 

Organic Potatoes

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If the US was involved, they would’ve had better guns. They were less armed than your average Southerner.
 

utdalltheway

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It's always interesting to read the wording in the denials about the WH or US military involvement.
"no direct involvement.." etc.
Of course they're going to deny it, but it does make me wonder if they sanctioned the operation.
 

Florida Man

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utdalltheway said:
It's always interesting to read the wording in the denials about the WH or US military involvement.
"no direct involvement.." etc.
Of course they're going to deny it, but it does make me wonder if they sanctioned the operation.
Click to expand...
It's not even a question, of course the US sanctioned it.
 

Abizzz

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Organic Potatoes said:
Any ‘evidence’ I’ve seen says the opposite, though they knew about it.
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If they know about it and it's happening from their soil that is pretty much sanctioning it?

(For what it's worth I think their involvement ran much deeper. From the way this failed it has Trumps fingerprints all over it. It's exactly his modus operandi.)
 

Foxbatt

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I think the Iranian rescue effort was also a failure. It's obvious they knew about it and also encourage it to go ahead. I personally don't think they were activity involved unless the Venezuelans produce more information.
 

DoomSlayer

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You are all crazy conspiracy theorists. USA and the Western world are the true fighters for justice and freedom, they would never stoop so low as to use mercenaries.

If there was a slim chance of this being true, the only reason it has happened is Donald Trump. Because previous presidents or current candidates for the position would never sanction such immoral and outright criminal acts. Not to mention how strict and well known the chain of command is in the US governance system, it's not like there are countless government agencies and organisations that struggle for dominance and bigger government funding for their "operations" and development.
 

carvajal

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Firstly drones that explode and now clumsy mercenaries with passports.
I thought Americans were better prepared to kill dictators
 

Foxbatt

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carvajal said:
Firstly drones that explode and now clumsy mercenaries with passports.
I thought Americans were better prepared to kill dictators
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They are known for this. Remember the exploding cigar for Fidel?
 

Foxbatt

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Johnny English would have succeeded. Unknowingly of course.
 

carvajal

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Foxbatt said:
They are known for this. Remember the exploding cigar for Fidel?
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I didn't know about Fidel.
I was being sarcastic.
The drones attack did not seem credible to me and this episode also makes me hesitate.
Disembarking 500 kilometers from Colombia, with documentation and weapons that had supposedly been stolen in Caracas the previous year,
with a master plan to take over the airport.
It all seems too shabby, suicidal and easy for Maduro.
Whether organized by Guaidó, the Americans or both
I don't think the identity of the arrested mercenaries clarifies everything completely.
I do not know if the identity of the dead mercenaries has been made public either.
 

Foxbatt

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carvajal said:
I didn't know about Fidel.
I was being sarcastic.
The drones attack did not seem credible to me and this episode also makes me hesitate.
Disembarking 500 kilometers from Colombia, with documentation and weapons that had supposedly been stolen in Caracas the previous year,
with a master plan to take over the airport.
It all seems too shabby, suicidal and easy for Maduro.
Whether organized by Guaidó, the Americans or both
I don't think the identity of the arrested mercenaries clarifies everything completely.
I do not know if the identity of the dead mercenaries has been made public either.
Click to expand...
The Americans? No I don't think so. Guaido, he has nothing to lose. Yes I think he is involved or at least his supporters are. For that kind of money it's a steal if they did pull off. He is the winner of it worked and if not he can always deny it. The fact that American newspapers have got hold of some sort of an agreement with these guys shows that Guaido is involved in this somehow.
 

11101

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Really doesn't seem like a US led operation, the equipment and people are all wrong. rather a group of mercenaries seeking a pay day and with the US knowing about it and turning a blind eye.
 

Organic Potatoes

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Abizzz said:
If they know about it and it's happening from their soil that is pretty much sanctioning it?

(For what it's worth I think their involvement ran much deeper. From the way this failed it has Trumps fingerprints all over it. It's exactly his modus operandi.)
Click to expand...
Well some sources are anonymous and hence tenuous at best, but again, what we know so far points against that. I’ll try my best to summarize and note where I’m interjecting my own thoughts...

Guaido being a popular guy with DC has an associate that runs into a Trumper. This guy gets the ball rolling with Silvercorp, and an agreement worth upwards of $200M backed by Venezuelan oil money is agreed with a $1.5M retainer to fund it. The CIA turns them down and that retainer never gets paid (presumably because the US didn’t sign off on it is why Rendon (Guaido’s guy) reneged-my words). Captain Cowboy America decides to keep going with Jamaica being the jumping off point into Colombia, despite the project being so underfunded the ex-Venezuelan military guys they recruit are deserting the training camps. The US puts a huge bounty on and extradites Alcala, who runs camps like these, in March. The wannabe hero goes forward with the plan anyways (probably hoping to meet up with sleeper cells within the country), and chaos ensues.

So at this point, yes the US was fully aware as was likely Colombia. But they had cut funding via Guaido’s team, extradited Alcala, and probably assumed it had either fizzled out and/or decided at the moment special ops intervention to stop it was not feasible or worth it.

I don’t know why this website but it was the best summary I found
 

Abizzz

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Organic Potatoes said:
Well some sources are anonymous and hence tenuous at best, but again, what we know so far points against that. I’ll try my best to summarize and note where I’m interjecting my own thoughts...

Guaido being a popular guy with DC has an associate that runs into a Trumper. This guy gets the ball rolling with Silvercorp, and an agreement worth upwards of $200M backed by Venezuelan oil money is agreed with a $1.5M retainer to fund it. The CIA turns them down and that retainer never gets paid (presumably because the US didn’t sign off on it is why Rendon (Guaido’s guy) reneged-my words). Captain Cowboy America decides to keep going with Jamaica being the jumping off point into Colombia, despite the project being so underfunded the ex-Venezuelan military guys they recruit are deserting the training camps. The US puts a huge bounty on and extradites Alcala, who runs camps like these, in March. The wannabe hero goes forward with the plan anyways (probably hoping to meet up with sleeper cells within the country), and chaos ensues.

So at this point, yes the US was fully aware as was likely Colombia. But they had cut funding via Guaido’s team, extradited Alcala, and probably assumed it had either fizzled out and/or decided at the moment special ops intervention to stop it was not feasible or worth it.

I don’t know why this website but it was the best summary I found
Click to expand...
That all sounds very reasonable. To be honest I don't think any involved government would be so incompetent that the entire truth is already out for people to report now. My point was it's not reasonable to assume the US government wasn't involved just because it failed badly.

From my point of view and with the information available to me I can't really judge beyond what I think is realistic and what isn't. I don't think it's realistic the WH didn't know about this. They might have turned a blind eye, although I really doubt it.
 

Foxbatt

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There is no way the US didn't know about it. Yes I don't think they were actively involved and Trump may not know about it but certainly the CIA would know about it.
 
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