Villa (a), Newcastle (h) and Tottenham (h)

[Insanity]

The Dalai Lama is wonderful, thank you We had to buy nearly a new starting 11 and squad players also, of course the club is going to have to spend a fair amount to get back into contention for silverware! Just because you have spent a lot of money doesn't mean the squad will be immediately cohesive, there is still quite a bit of work left to do on the coaching side of things. Then add in that it would have been impossible to get all of the transfers we needed in one window and it makes sense that a major overhaul would take a few years.

Just because we have a history of success does not mean that we will never have rebuilding periods. The point of the net spend numbers was to show that despite spending a large sum these last two summers it is really not that impressive when you consider how little we spend usually. This rebuild has been a long time coming and the year under Moyes made it an even more difficult task.

It should be noted that when I talked about patience I was referring to the fans, nowhere did I say the club couldn't splash the cash. I said the fans should be patient because even though we have spent a large sum of money the team will not immediately play at the highest level possible, that takes time. You are making a straw man argument, I am saying that the fans should be patient with the club because this kind of overhaul takes time. You said "For someone getting all Dalai Lama on us and preaching the virtues of patience, you completely ignored the way the club has acted in the last couple of transfer windows. We are looking for instant success, so for you teach that we need to be patient for 3-4 years for the "process" to come to fruition is ridiculous." So if I say the fans should take a patient approach then the club should also? No the club should do everything it can to get back to the top but the fans should be patient because it is a process and we are making improvements.

You are welcome.

My counter point is that our sterile is play is not due to lack of cohesiveness but due to the defensive tactics. It's not a question of being patient, we have evidence of more than a season of football now, and the first three games have been a continuation of the same. We still look as inept against a parked bus as we did last season. The onus remains on someone to produce a moment of magic or for us to use Fellaini chest/head, if available.

The net spend figure is skewed because in the last 11 years, we also had a period after the buyout in which we weren't in a position to spend a lot of cash. I don't think the comparison is apt to show that what we are currently doing is any better than what City or Chelsea have done during the period. The better measure would be to see our net spend in comparison with City and Chelsea post Fergie.

Again, I think fans would be more patient if they saw a change in approach, just some signs that we are moving towards a more attacking form of football. On the contrary, I think our attacking play has deteriorated. The latest news is that Fellaini would be used as one of the front two in order for us to pump balls to him. That's repulsive to me as a United fan.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Again, I think fans would be more patient if they saw a change in approach, just some signs that we are moving towards a more attacking form of football. On the contrary, I think our attacking play has deteriorated. The latest news is that Fellaini would be used as one of the front two in order for us to pump balls to him. That's repulsive to me as a United fan.

Was it repulsive to you last year when Fellaini was a regular starter and contributed a lot in our nice period of wins vs Spurs, Liverpool, City?

Also there is progress this year, if you don't see it fair enough. Sometimes people don't want to see what is in front of them.

 

[Rednotdead]

Was it repulsive to you last year when Fellaini was a regular starter and contributed a lot in our nice period of wins vs Spurs, Liverpool, City?

Also there is progress this year, if you don't see it fair enough. Sometimes people don't want to see what is in front of them.

Last season Fellaini wasn't employed as a forward and of course his play and goals were important. That's a completely different matter, however, from playing him as a first choice out and out striker. When you've got someone of his size and prowess in the air it's of course only natural that players will hit long balls. He'll always be the one aimed for with kick-outs, free kicks and corners in the hope that he can get on the end of them. But what happens when the opposition manages to shut him down?

As for progress, similarly some people see what isn't actually there just because they want to see it.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Last season Fellaini wasn't employed as a forward and of course his play and goals were important. That's a completely different matter, however, from playing him as a first choice out and out striker. When you've got someone of his size and prowess in the air it's of course only natural that players will hit long balls. He'll always be the one aimed for with kick-outs, free kicks and corners in the hope that he can get on the end of them. But what happens when the opposition manages to shut him down?

As for progress, similarly some people see what isn't actually there just because they want to see it.

Well of course he'll be aimed at corners and free kicks cause he's tall and great with heading the ball.
But I think there's more to his play than just that but people are happy to just bang about that and hoofball although there's a difference with hoofing and crossing the ball.
Last season he was employed in midfield as the closest to Rooney, that was sort of nr. 10 anyway.
I don't expect him to start games as nr. 9.

As for progress, fair enough you see and don't something, I see and don't see something, difference of opinions.

 

[Rednotdead]

Well of course he'll be aimed at corners and free kicks cause he's tall and great with heading the ball.
But I think there's more to his play than just that but people are happy to just bang about that and hoofball although there's a difference with hoofing and crossing the ball.
Last season he was employed in midfield as the closest to Rooney, that was sort of nr. 10 anyway.
I don't expect him to start games as nr. 9.

As for progress, fair enough you see and don't something, I see and don't see something, difference of opinions.

In yesterday's press conference Van Gaal talked about Fellaini playing 10 or 9 this season instead of 6 or 8 - I think possibly that's what's spooked people, the thought of him as a first choice 9. If he plays 10, it means Rooney will be 9 and I think that's our real problem rather than where Fellaini plays. If Rooney doesn't get his act together it won't matter a toss where anyone else plays.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

In yesterday's press conference Van Gaal talked about Fellaini playing 10 or 9 this season instead of 6 or 8 - I think possibly that's what's spooked people, the thought of him as a first choice 9. If he plays 10, it means Rooney will be 9 and I think that's our real problem rather than where Fellaini plays. If Rooney doesn't get his act together it won't matter a toss where anyone else plays.

He said he'll play, he didn't say he'll be a starter.
I think some people don't like Fellaini in general and everything about him spooks them. Fair enough.

Also as I said Fellaini played close to Rooney last year in our nice little run and it looked good.

 

[Rednotdead]

He said he'll play, he didn't say he'll be a starter.
I think some people don't like Fellaini in general and everything about him spooks them. Fair enough.

Also as I said Fellaini played close to Rooney last year in our nice little run and it looked good.

The only problem is that Rooney so far hasn't shown even what he showed last year so the partnership with Fellaini may be his best chance of producing the goods. I'd like to see him score tonight but it won't be any yardstick due to the standard of Bruges. Swansea will be a more relevant test - they won't park the bus so that excuse won't be available.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

The only problem is that Rooney so far hasn't shown even what he showed last year so the partnership with Fellaini may be his best chance of producing the goods. I'd like to see him score tonight but it won't be any yardstick due to the standard of Bruges. Swansea will be a more relevant test - they won't park the bus so that excuse won't be available.

He just needs to score a first goal and pressure will be a bit of, Brugge or not.

 

[reelworld]

Not against Newcastle, Spurs maybe but even that's remote for Chelsea and City

what's so special about Newcastle?
We dropped points against bad teams in our title winning seasons, some are worse than Newcastle.
It means nothing if you can make it up in other games

 

[Red-Jeff]

You are welcome.

My counter point is that our sterile is play is not due to lack of cohesiveness but due to the defensive tactics. It's not a question of being patient, we have evidence of more than a season of football now, and the first three games have been a continuation of the same. We still look as inept against a parked bus as we did last season. The onus remains on someone to produce a moment of magic or for us to use Fellaini chest/head, if available.

The net spend figure is skewed because in the last 11 years, we also had a period after the buyout in which we weren't in a position to spend a lot of cash. I don't think the comparison is apt to show that what we are currently doing is any better than what City or Chelsea have done during the period. The better measure would be to see our net spend in comparison with City and Chelsea post Fergie.

Again, I think fans would be more patient if they saw a change in approach, just some signs that we are moving towards a more attacking form of football. On the contrary, I think our attacking play has deteriorated. The latest news is that Fellaini would be used as one of the front two in order for us to pump balls to him. That's repulsive to me as a United fan.

Honestly I'm not too worried and I am surprised at how many don't believe that we are progressing.

 

[Insanity]

Honestly I'm not too worried and I am surprised at how many don't believe that we are progressing.

Good for you. I am still skeptical.

There is "progress", but not 300m worth of progress. Standards have fallen quite dramatically at this club. We are quite happy to be the new Arsenal. Arsenal who play shit football.

Wenger Van Gaal Knows best!

 

[Red-Jeff]

Good for you. I am still skeptical.

There is "progress", but not 300m worth of progress. Standards have fallen quite dramatically at this club. We are quite happy to be the new Arsenal. Arsenal who play shit football.

Wenger Van Gaal Knows best!

Arsenal are the exact opposite of what we have been accused of Arsenal have never been accused of playing shit football, they have however been accused of flattering to deceive while we have been accused of winning but playing shit football.

That will be my last post in here, I am happy with the discussion we have had and my contribution to it. Thanks for the good discussion mate.

 

[Rednotdead]

Good for you. I am still skeptical.

There is "progress", but not 300m worth of progress. Standards have fallen quite dramatically at this club. We are quite happy to be the new Arsenal. Arsenal who play shit football.

Wenger Van Gaal Knows best!

As evidenced by some people claiming a 0-0 draw at home to Newcastle is evidence of progress - and Van Gaal claiming we "played fantastic".

 

[Getsme]

As evidenced by some people claiming a 0-0 draw at home to Newcastle is evidence of progress - and Van Gaal claiming we "played fantastic".

Who has said the result is evidence of progress?

 

[Insanity]

Arsenal are the exact opposite of what we have been accused of Arsenal have never been accused of playing shit football, they have however been accused of flattering to deceive while we have been accused of winning but playing shit football.

That will be my last post in here, I am happy with the discussion we have had and my contribution to it. Thanks for the good discussion mate.

I said as much, we are the Arsenal who play shit football.

The managers "philosophy" (taking his bullshit as gospel), the claims of "he was given three years" and the general acceptance with mediocrity in the name of patience, is eerily similar to Arsenal's. Wenger also a similar "plan", with the help of which he kept the expectations at check; though, in his defense, he had the excuse of the stadium debt.

Good talk.