Villa (a), Newcastle (h) and Tottenham (h)

[Red-Jeff]

Bunch of moaning divas in here.

It's not worth it mate, some people see things a certain way and there is no changing it. I see what you're saying, the build up play and attacking with the exception of finishing has greatly improved relative to the first two games. Doesn't mean there aren't improvements to make but it definitely is better than it was. Considering the play of our defense and midfield it is promising and one hopes it continues to improve. Some see the game a different way and some just want to be stubborn or obtuse, at some point you just have to say "feck it"

 

[Getsme]

It's not worth it mate, some people see things a certain way and there is no changing it. I see what you're saying, the build up play and attacking with the exception of finishing has greatly improved relative to the first two games. Doesn't mean there aren't improvements to make but it definitely is better than it was. Considering the play of our defense and midfield it is promising and one hopes it continues to improve. Some see the game a different way and some just want to be stubborn or obtuse, at some point you just have to say "feck it"

Indeed mate

 

[Born2Lose]

I'm pretty positive too but the problem for me is that yesterday felt all too familiar and he's had a season now, it's time LVG was able to employ some tactics to deal with these park the bus teams. I genuinely can't see what the problem is with playing 2 strikers at home against team outside the top 4.

 

[Red-Jeff]

I'm pretty positive too but the problem for me is that yesterday felt all too familiar and he's had a season now, it's time LVG was able to employ some tactics to deal with these park the bus teams. I genuinely can't see what the problem is with playing 2 strikers at home against team outside the top 4.

I really disagree with the comparisons to last year regarding the Newcastle game, I can't remember many (any?) games in which we had a as many quality chances and so obviously dominated but didn't win. The comparisons with the first two games are accurate but not this one. We looked very dangerous against Newcastle, we just couldn't put it in the net, despite coming up against a team that was content to park the bus. LVG is building this team from the back first, we need to finish better but it seems like some good attacking football is on its way.

 

[bosnian_red]

If we beat Swansea then its okay. But these 3 should always be 9 from 9. Newcastle, at home, should be a gimme for basically all teams.

 

[Rednotdead]

What a ridiculously simplistic way of watching football. We created twice the amount of chances yesterday as we did in the other games put together.

Yes, I see what you mean - goalscoring has no place in assessing how well a team performs in attack. You should get points for possession and chances created.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes, I see what you mean - goalscoring has no place in assessing how well a team performs in attack. You should get points for possession and chances created.

No, but there is a big difference between creating nothing, barely shooting. And creating a lot but bottling completely, yesterday was a disaster in term of finishing, not in term of creating.

In a way it reminds me the CL final lost by Munich against Chelsea.

 

[Bobcat]

Yeah, im not to worried. We have looked rock solid at the back and despite us not scoring yesterday we created plenty of decent chances.

 

[stepic]

By some peoples logic, a team creating 10 chances but don't score due to a combination of bad finishing, bad luck, great saves by the opposition keeper etc, played worse than a scrappy 1-0 win with no shots on goal and a flukey deflection. Because goals!!!!

 

[mufcwarm92]

Yes, I see what you mean - goalscoring has no place in assessing how well a team performs in attack. You should get points for possession and chances created.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

If you honestly think we were more effective going forward in those two scrappy 1-0s - one of which won by an own goal - you should probably pick another sport. We were noticeably more dominant and more fluid in attack against Newcastle. Wastefulness in front of goal doesn't negate an entire side's attacking performance.

No one's claiming it's all hunky dory and we don't need anyone else, but to compare performances purely on goals is just daft.

 

[Offside]

The start is okay results wise. I'm not one of these people who gets overly negative all the time. I think we are 100% going to finish at least top 4 again. We have improved on last season. However we have clearly lacked firepower so far and at the moment I'm with the people who claim it's what is holding us back from challenging for the league.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

We had 20 shots against Newcastle, 8 of that on target. So if someone doesn't see that as an improvement compared to first 2 league games I don't know what to say.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

We had 20 shots against Newcastle, 8 of that on target. So if someone doesn't see that as an improvement compared to first 2 league games I don't know what to say.

It's the next thing to moan about. "We aren't creating any chances" is now "we don't know how to convert them".

It's a valid complaint but to claim there's no progress is disingenuous.

 

[talking robot]

At the end of the day 7 out of 9 points is a good return. Our lack of goals is still worrying though, and it's something that the coaching staff will obviously be looking at. If Van Gaal feels he needs to drop Rooney, I think he will have the courage to do it. Through the autumn, this is the team I'd like to see us put out, and the one that I think would be most likely to generate goals:

-----------------De Gea----------------
Darmian----Smalling---Blind-----Shaw
----------Herrera------Schneiderlin-----
---Mata---------Fellaini-------Depay
-----------------Hernandez-------

I think this team would have a lot of movement and enough variety for scoring goals. It is quick and creative through the midfield without being weak, and you wouldn't be surprised if any of the midfielders (with the exception of maybe Schneiderlin) got on the score sheet. I also think Hernandez would offer more than Rooney as a number 9.

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

If we beat Swansea then its okay. But these 3 should always be 9 from 9. Newcastle, at home, should be a gimme for basically all teams.

Should it ? in comparison to the United of the last 2 seasons ?

 

[Brightonian]

What exactly are we building "good in attack"?

I don't know, the attack that scored three against Brugge and could have had plenty more, or totally battered Newcastle for half the game but through bad luck, some bad decision making and a wrong offside call were somehow unable to collect their rewards.

That may not be a finished attacking unit, but there's definitely something being 'built' there, as Twigg says.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

There's not much wrong with the results, historically speaking.

It's always a bit pointless to regard this sort of thing purely statistically, though. The reason why people were less than enthusiastic after Newcastle is that they're concerned about our lack of ability to kill a match. Dominating the possession means nothing if you don't capitalize on it. And this is exactly the same thing people were concerned about last season. In isolation the match is neither here nor there - just one of those days when we're a bit unlucky and get a draw instead of a deserved win. But if we seek to explain why people moan so much (rather than just moaning about them moaning), we can't regard it in isolation.

Under Fergie we could shrug at anything and call it a freak occurrence - because we trusted him almost unconditionally. He always made us bounce back. Times have changed, though. Until we get back to proper winning ways (of the sort United should aim for), people will nitpick and worry. And it's partly legitimate. We're still in some sort of limbo as far as I'm concerned. I have no idea, to be honest, what will happen this season; whether LVG will succeed in implementing his system fully, to the point where we look as strong as we should, on a regular basis - or not. Jury's still out, as far as I'm concerned.

We look much less shaky compared to last season, though - which is an obvious improvement.

 

[Sandikan]

We had 20 shots against Newcastle, 8 of that on target. So if someone doesn't see that as an improvement compared to first 2 league games I don't know what to say.

and they say stats can prove anything.

from that it sounds like an absolute lashing and pure travesty we didn't pump them for 6

 

[Sandikan]

By some peoples logic, a team creating 10 chances but don't score due to a combination of bad finishing, bad luck, great saves by the opposition keeper etc, played worse than a scrappy 1-0 win with no shots on goal and a flukey deflection. Because goals!!!!

Beating Tottenham is a tougher ask than beating Newcastle though.

Newcastle are in pure no man's land these days, and were there to be pumped.

 

[steve zizou]

he does make a fair point....not in the OP and lets face it - the win against Bruges did paper over the cracks a little

we had two wonder goals and a Fellaini header....I wouldn't have called it an excellent attacking performance by any stretch and we just about got the third

also consider the opposition - Bruges lost yesterday by the same margin to the mighty Zulte Waregem

Do wonder goals and Fellaini headers not count? Here's @Rednotdead arguing that goals are all that matter in attacking football; meanwhile, you are also saying that the goals don't count.

Between the 2 of you, can you describe to me what type goals are of an acceptable standard for Man Utd.?

 

[Mali_Zeus]

and they say stats can prove anything.

from that it sounds like an absolute lashing and pure travesty we didn't pump them for 6

Hm all I'm saying is people were dissatisfied with our attacking play and with our lack of shots in first 2 games and rightly so. Against Newcastle we were a lot better up front, had 20 shots but were unlucky to score.

 

[steve zizou]

We should be making the keeper make 15 saves per game and winning every game 7-0

Strange isn't it. The defending champions have now managed a combined 11 shots on target in their opening 3 games. Seeing as 5 have been goals, I'm going to assume the others (6) have been saves.
Some would say it's not about how much you create but you many you finish. Ah well, then why not have a 50% conversion rate as we did against Villa.
Against Swansea we're going to create 12 chances and score 5 in a 5-0 victory. Watch while the forum (and media) spout something along the lines of "Swansea were awful defensively, They never showed up" etc. Heard it countless times last season.

I didn't say you could discount the Rooney chance I said why didn't we create anything else over the course of the next 90 minutes if you include extra time. You can go again if you want.

The majority of what you listed are not even chances

What in your opinion counts as a chance?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yeah but not even one decent chance in 50 minutes at home to Newcastle? I agree we did enough to win and it was mainly our poor finishing that let us down, but a whole 50 minutes without a decent chance just doesn't sit right with me.

Though the stats could be wrong and there probably was a chance or two that may have been missed out.

Is something that happens in good team performances. If we created chances in that period we'd be up to 30 shots and 15 on target. That would be an incredible performance. Newcastle aren't a pub team. They are capable of having good defensive periods too.

 

[Red-Jeff]

Is something that happens in good team performances. If we created chances in that period we'd be up to 30 shots and 15 on target. That would be an incredible performance. Newcastle aren't a pub team. They are capable of having good defensive periods too.

Not good enough! We need a shot every third minute to be up there with the elite you pleb! feck this I'm going to support Real now.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Not good enough! We need a shot every third minute to be up there with the elite you pleb! feck this I'm going to support Real now.

Who are drawing away to a newly promoted side

 

[Red-Jeff]

Who are drawing away to a newly promoted side

At least we have Ronnie!

 

[amolbhatia50k]

At least we have Ronnie!

Sadly we have one more o

 

[Wumminator]

Some people watch highlights of other teams and want that from United

 

[Mali_Zeus]

What do people count as chance? I mean I keep reading we had 2 decent chances, Smalling and Chicharito ones. Nobody remembers a shot from Memphis straight at Krul in the 1st half and Mata's shot, saved by Krul, in the 1st half too.

 

[buckooo1978]

Do wonder goals and Fellaini headers not count? Here's @Rednotdead arguing that goals are all that matter in attacking football; meanwhile, you are also saying that the goals don't count.

Between the 2 of you, can you describe to me what type goals are of an acceptable standard for Man Utd.?

Meaning that you can't rely on players scoring wonder goals every week and good attacking teams create more clear goalscoring opportunities than we currently do

Fellaini would have been great yesterday - his ariel ability makes up for our lack of cutting edge at times it seems -

You have misunderstood my post

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What do people count as chance? I mean I keep reading we had 2 decent chances, Smalling and Chicharito ones. Nobody remembers a shot from Memphis straight at Krul in the 1st half and Mata's shot, saved by Krul, in the 1st half too.

We had a number of great openings. What was lacking was our final third work. So the creativity was fine, it was converting that into goals that was the issue. As a team we played well, just the strikers didn't deliver.

 

[Red-Jeff]

Sadly we have one more o

Eh I'm back from supporting Real, they don't have Neymar and I hear we might be getting him. So here I am for now grudgingly supporting United even though they are a bunch of shitehawks barely capable of dressing themselves in the morning.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Eh I'm back from supporting Real, they don't have Neymar and I hear we might be getting him. So here I am for now grudgingly supporting United even though they are a bunch of shitehawks barely capable of dressing themselves in the morning.

Madrid are at home next weekend while we're away. I think you should re-consider.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

We had a number of great openings. What was lacking was our final third work. So the creativity was fine, it was converting that into goals that was the issue. As a team we played well, just the strikers didn't deliver.

True.

 

[Red-Jeff]

Some people watch highlights of other teams and want that from United

They expect even beyond that imo, the expectations of some seem to be a flawless 90 minutes every game with 3 points sprinkled on top. I really don't understand what universe some people are coming from

 

[Red-Jeff]

Madrid are at home next weekend while we're away. I think you should re-consider.

I'll see how each team plays and then make a decision.

 

[Getsme]

Madrid are at home next weekend while we're away. I think you should re-consider.

I'll see how each team plays and then make a decision.

 

[Getsme]

They expect even beyond that imo, the expectations of some seem to be a flawless 90 minutes every game with 3 points sprinkled on top. I really don't understand what universe some people are coming from

It's becoming the norm instead of the exception.

 

[Red-Jeff]

It's becoming the norm instead of the exception.

It's really baffling, I don't know if it's down to building mega teams on FIFA or FM or if the information age is responsible for the proliferation of an "I want it now" mentality. A successful endeavor is a long process with lots of hard-work and *gasp-horror* failures that you build upon, not some instant gratification bullshit that you just throw together over a single season.

 

[stepic]

Beating Tottenham is a tougher ask than beating Newcastle though.

Newcastle are in pure no man's land these days, and were there to be pumped.

Newcastle defended fairly well, and Colloccini had a blinder. They also pretty much parked the bus, which is very unlike Newcastle, but that was clearly their plan.