The massive overrating of Liverpool players is happening once again. Makes the boom-bust cycle even more entertaining.
Virgil van Dijk | Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Unusually it's the United fans doing the overrating for a change.
He does look very good in their defence. He seems to be the only one who maintains composure and doesn't often make many mistakes. His presence is also very important too, as against Liverpool it makes it harder beat them in the air. This season the whole team is having a wonderful season so it rubs off, but whether they keep it up next season who knows. I don't think anybody can take them easy any more though.
That's not really unusual on this forum, people love to hate their own team on here
There were some predicting Liverpool to be in the mix in the league this season based on last season, and they are doing the exact same thing this season. 'Klopp plays attacking football, gets the best out his players etc.' Of course they piped down when Liverpool were atrocious for the first few months, but now that they're not playing like a mid table team they are being overrated again.
The reality is that when you are fighting on multiple fronts, you need money to build a squad with enough depth and quality. Liverpool in the past two seasons have been atrocious half the time and fantastic half the time. A solid top 4 team. But, when you sell your best players and work with a small net spend you're always going to struggle.
He wasn’t particularly great and gave the ball away really poorly almost letting City in to score.He and Lovren has it easy against Gabriel Jesus who looked like a lost little boy.
If any defender deserves praise for last night it’s their RB.
If any defender deserves praise for last night it’s their RB.
He's the best CB they've had in years. Very good on the ball and in the air.
If they can sign 2 good full backs and Keita, they'll be one to watch next season IMO. Pains me but I think Keita will be excellent for them, especially in a Klopp system.
If they can sign 2 good full backs and Keita, they'll be one to watch next season IMO. Pains me but I think Keita will be excellent for them, especially in a Klopp system.
I agree.
Feels an odd game to praise Van Dijk for, he almost landed Liverpool in trouble a few times last night with careless passing.
He is literally the best cb in the league by quite some distance. Cant see anyone that comes clse.
Perhaps company when fully fit bit thats all. Well worth the 75 million.
Perhaps company when fully fit bit thats all. Well worth the 75 million.
I’d say another centre back and another CM would be more what we are after. A new goalkeeper too.
He isn't. Liverpool era is well and truly started. They have best CB, best Striker, best player in the league. Next season they will add best CM in the league.
What the absolute hell
Go on
I could list at least 5 who are better than him
Nope. Its not bias at all. United have the best keeper. Liverpool have the best cb. City have the best midfield and tottenham have the best striker.
The only people bigging up liverpool are other fans and not our own. We are just happy to be challenging in big games again and playing well.
Btw i do believe keita will be one of the top cm's though. Good shout
Vertonghen
Azpilicueta
Sanchez
Bailly
Alderweireld
Kompany
That's a mixture of those who have had better seasons than VVD this season and/or are just better than him
You're literally on here bigging up your player thoughNope. Its not bias at all. United have the best keeper. Liverpool have the best cb. City have the best midfield and tottenham have the best striker.
The only people bigging up liverpool are other fans and not our own. We are just happy to be challenging in big games again and playing well.
Btw i do believe keita will be one of the top cm's though. Good shout
You are being quite generous. Van Dyke has done absolutely nothing of note in his career. He's played in 12 games and Liverpool have conceded in 7 of them, with Van Dyke making mistakes every few games.
Liverpool fans were creaming over VVD when he scored against Everton, completely ignoring that he contributed to the goal they conceded. You have the Swansea game where he went for a ball that 3 other Liverpool players had under control, only to head it straight down in front of him to a Swansea player. What about the last minute penalty he gave away against Spurs where he pelted the back of an attackers leg. What about against West Ham when he was miles away from the defensive line in no man's land leaving Antonio completely free.
I am because to be perfectly honest I dont actually think there's a lot between VVD and our very own Mike Smalling. I like Christensen as well albeit he's made quite a few mistakes in recent weeks
Vertonghen has been the best CB in the league this season though
Yes I agree with everything you've said here. Smalling at least has that one year under LVG where he was great with Blind.
Spurs have had the best CBs for a while now, if Alderweireld hadn't been injured he would be right up there with Vetonghen.
God you speak some rubbish.
- Van Dijk had nothing to do with the goal we conceded against Everton. Emre Can was the one not tracking Sigurdsson, Van Dijk went to help our other defender thinking Can was tracking Sigurdsson. Can was on the halfway line at the same time at Sigurdsson but couldn't be bothered to track him, if he had no way they'd have scored.
- West Ham, it was a turnover because again Emre Can lost the ball on the half way line, Van Dijk was in line with the rest of his defenders not in this "no man's land" as you claim.
- He went to clear the ball against Spurs and an offside player jumped in front of him from his blind side and when he finally saw him he couldn't pull his leg away in time. That's just bad luck as we wouldn't even be talking about it if the linesman had done his job.
- Yeah of course... going for a header off a corner is a mistake :') this is literally just clutching at straws :') He's got as much right to go for that ball as every other player. The Liverpool players certainly didn't have it "under control" if they did he wouldn't have been the one getting the header so that's a complete contradiction in itself. It was even said in the commentary that it was "good fortune" that it happened to land at the Swansea's players feet, could have landed anywhere.
But sure, if it makes you feel better call them "mistakes" :') even though two of them very clearly Emre Can's fault not his, one was bad luck and well the other is just clearly clutching at straws to attempt to put a quality player down. Guy has been top quality since he's came. Exactly the player we needed at the back and you're delusional if you can't see that. No way would we have been able to hold out City for 45 minutes without him at the back organising and instructing our defence. I get this is a United site so bias will be aplenty but some of the rubbish you guys are coming out with isn't even biased, it's just straight up lies. Don’t get me wrong, Van Dijk has made mistakes this season (but not the one’s you’ve named) but generally he’s been excellent and brought genuinely solidity to our defence. In a system like ours players are bound to make some errors but it’s the other parts of his game that make him such an outstanding defender. I’m certainly not saying he’s the best in the league, because he’s not but to compare him to Smalling is just honestly laughable.
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1. Im talking about a player, not the club.You're literally on here bigging up your player though
2. Im not "bigging" him up. Truth is every united fan would take him. He would walk into every teams starting XI in the prem. Vertonghen and Alderweireld are top class cb's but would still rate him higher. Kompany in his prime i can see. As for sanchez and bailey, well thats just laughable and clutching at straws
He was injured for almost all season and played just 11 games before joining Liverpool.Nope. Its not bias at all. United have the best keeper. Liverpool have the best cb. City have the best midfield and tottenham have the best striker.
The only people bigging up liverpool are other fans and not our own. We are just happy to be challenging in big games again and playing well.
Btw i do believe keita will be one of the top cm's though. Good shout
After joining Liverpool he played in 8 league games, he was at fault against Swansea assisting their goal. He conceded penalty against Spurs with his lack of awareness (don't give me he tried to pull out bs, he hit back of Lamela's leg and his leg moved back because of that, not because he tried to pull out).
He had no clue where Mata was when he tried overhead kick, his positioning was just awful. His defense was in the box and for some reason he saw Mata making the run and just tried to come out of the box. Even for second goal, he didn't track Mata.
So in short, he played 8 games in which he made mistakes in 3 (not even sure how many he did which wasn't punished). You guys need to calm down with best in the league BS.
He is very good but talk about best in the league in just laughable. Just because he is the first decent CB you had in years doesn't automatically make him best CB in the league.
He's up there with anyone else in the league. Basically looked like the best we've had since hyypia already.
But we could have baresi playing for us and there'd still be people saying "but smalling..."
But we could have baresi playing for us and there'd still be people saying "but smalling..."
It’s not really difficult to be the best CB at Liverpool when the other options are klavan lovren and matip
Not really related to what I wrote though
Works both ways though. Liverpool fans are also claiming that he's the best in the league which he's not.
There is not a lot between Smalling and Van Djik? That's one of those narratives that would look incredible in a year or two, what game are people watching?
Modern football demands you to no longer be what it says on the tin. Goalkeepers need to be good with their feet, Fullbacks need to be wingers, CB's need to be like midfielders on the ball.....and that's the likes of Smallings problem. The new narrative means the likes of Smalling are redundant (even for England). VD represents the new CB along with Stones but for me, they are just really tall players that probably were never quite good enough to play midfield. They don't naturally defend like Smalling but in football if you are the flavour, the focus is what you can do and if you are not, what you can't. It will be a big mistake if Southgate leaves Smalling at home.....
VD is a very good player but need to see him for a full season before making that Judgment
VD is a very good player but need to see him for a full season before making that Judgment
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I can't be arsed splitting hairs about who exactly is top dog. He's been as good as as we could hope for basically and in the absence of clear world class defenders like Ferdinand vidic Terry or Campbell, I feel comfortable saying he's up there with the best this league has to offer.
Van Dijk is very good for us since he joined. Most of the "errors" mentioned here are not really his errors. Think carefully how collective defense usually works. He is not supposed to defend every situation and stop every player, others have their areas and players to cover. Most of the situations happened because either he was covering for someone else or his mates didn't do their job.
He's not the best CB in the league though. Spurs CBs are great, fof example. Too early to judge. What is obvious is he strenghtened our defense.
He's not the best CB in the league though. Spurs CBs are great, fof example. Too early to judge. What is obvious is he strenghtened our defense.
Not sure what mistakes that are mentioned that are not his. He assisted Swansea's goal. He conceded Penalty kicking Lamela's leg. He wasn't bothered to mark Mata who went straight through the defense for our second goal. He went next to VVD. For some reason he started to move out of the box when defenders were inside the box and Mata was clearly making run towards goal for overhead kick effort.
Vertonghen and Alderweireld are better CBs than VVD just for starters.
It's too soon to proclaim him one of the best, he's only been playing at Liverpool for a few months. I always did like the look of him at Southampton though. I rate him highly, but for me the best CBs in the league are the spurs Belgian duo, as they've been consistently delivering for a good few seasons now not a few months.
It's too soon to proclaim him one of the best, he's only been playing at Liverpool for a few months. I always did like the look of him at Southampton though. I rate him highly, but for me the best CBs in the league are the spurs Belgian duo, as they've been consistently delivering for a good few seasons now not a few months.
Some quality top level blinkers you have on there!
Aldeweirald is way better. Problem with him is he's made of the same thin material as Lallana. Comparing the next two it's close between Vertonghen and VvD.
What VvD brings is proper heading ability, something our CBs have lacked from God knows how many years, since Hyppia? Badly met headers often result in loss of second balls (because you can't predict where they're going to skew off) often with costly outcomes. Plus the general calmness which a lot of younger fans will never have seen from us. You can't put stats around that. Just a feeling. A warm one.
What VvD brings is proper heading ability, something our CBs have lacked from God knows how many years, since Hyppia? Badly met headers often result in loss of second balls (because you can't predict where they're going to skew off) often with costly outcomes. Plus the general calmness which a lot of younger fans will never have seen from us. You can't put stats around that. Just a feeling. A warm one.
Van Dijk was so in line with the other defenders against West Ham, that Matip had to drop a few metres just to get level with him. What about Antonio who clearly saw Van Dijk out of position and made a curved run to take advantage of it???
It's obvious that Liverpool fans are the ones clutching at straws to justify a new signing as 'just what they need'.
Before Van Dijk's first game Liverpool had played 24 games and conceded in 14 of them meaning they conceded in 58% of games. VVD has played in 12 games and Liverpool have conceded in 7 of them making 58% conceded! Either VVD has made no significant difference to the defense, or he is preventing Liverpool from completely collapsing and conceding in virtually every game they play.
You've even gone on to basically invent something about VVD, as if he is some sort of commander in defence. Well, Liverpool's defence is just as leaky with him in it, so what is he actually organizing???
Who could also forget VVD laughable defending against United; where he watched Mata stroll past him and tried to play the offside trap when there were 3 Liverpool players deeper than him! What an amazing organizer.
Right yep so apparently Emre Can losing the ball for no reason on the half way line when he had passing options is Van Dijk’s fault... really smart guy aren’t you. Even Emre Can apologised post match for the mistake and took the blame. Honestly laughable attempting to blame Van Dijk for that.
Oh isn’t it interesting how you’re talking about games conceding in rather than actual goals conceded (because the latter doesnt support your “argument”). You understand clean sheets can be lost by individual errors from other players right, rather than specifically just Van Dijk’s defending yeah? I’m not sure how you think Van Dijk is related to the two goals conceded by us against you because of mistakes by Lovren and Trent, or the goal conceded against Palace because of a mistake by Trent and Karius or the goals conceded against Everton and West Ham because of the mistakes by Emre Can (which you’re hilariously trying to magically pin on Van Dijk). I’m not saying our defence is impenetrable but anyone without United bias can see it’s improved significantly, including pundits and other fans.
Now let’s actually look at goals conceded statistics. In the league we’ve conceded 7 goals since Van Dijk came in, in the 8 games he’s played (averaging 0.875 a game). Before that in the league we’d conceded 29 goals in 24 games (averaging 1.21 a game). Last two times we played City we conceded 8 goals, Wednesday we conceded 0 and that was while under a lot of pressure in the second half.
Invent? Hahahahaha well now we know you don’t watch Liverpool and are just speaking off things you’ve seen on social media. It all makes sense now :’) every single game I’ve seen this season he’s been barking orders, pointing instriction, bringing out the defensive line and so forth. You clearly don’t watch us play much if at all so no wonder you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about :’) nevermind the fact he was given the captaincy for his national team, I wonder why that was... maybe because he’s a leader?
As I said before, I’m not saying he’s been perfect. He’s made his fair share of errors as you rightly pointed out about Mata, and he made one against Palace when he lost the ball deep in defence. He’s also had a bad performance namely West Brom (like everyone else that day) but to try and claim he’s average is laughable, nevermind the amount of straight up lies you’re trying to use to justify your point. Reality is he’s an excellent defender who’s been solid for us near enough every game and that is while being thrown into the deep end of a team with a completely different play style to Southampton and while being under intense pressure to justify his price tag. He’s only going to get better, especially once he’s next to a more competent defender than Lovren and has a full pre season under his belt.
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I believe that VVD is one of the best in his position in the Premier League. Last season with SOTON was superb until he say his desire to leave (in that point his level down). Then, when Liverpool sign him, is not doing bad with them. Easily, the most fiable in the Liverpool's defense and actually can only see him doing better and better.
PS: I like very much Baily and Kompany, but these two players has a long-term injury and that's an aspect to see when compare season each other.
PS: I like very much Baily and Kompany, but these two players has a long-term injury and that's an aspect to see when compare season each other.
Same. It’s clear that he’s improved the side defensively and I think we’ve only conceded one goal from a set piece since he signed (an area we were notoriously weak at prior to his arrival).
I think he’s helped Karius as well. It’s the first time he’s had a Liverpool CB in front of him that talks a bit and he seems to have picked up some form since he started playing with Van Dijk.
One criticism of VVD for me is that he’s a bit to casual on the ball. We saw that on Wednesday. He needs to improve his awareness at times as well.
Overall though I think he’s been excellent so far.
I think this is a bit overstated by Liverpool fans, probably because of Mignolet's blunders and perhaps being worse last season. This season Liverpool haven't been bad defending set pieces and you've conceded almost as many from penalties.