I think that's a little simplistic.....Rooney was as good at 18 as he was at 24/25. Ronaldo however flourished into a Ballon Dor winner and we added Vidic and Evra. Those three denominators cannot be overlooked to suggest Rooney was the key component because without Vidic, Evra or the transformation of Ronaldo.....that success wouldn't have happened. Rooney was a big part of it though I doubt he was first name on the sheet anymore than VDS, Rio, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Vidic or Evra. That was simply a great team with a great manager.
Wayne Rooney's legacy
- Thread starter El Jefe
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I think that's a little simplistic.....Rooney was as good at 18 as he was at 24/25. Ronaldo however flourished into a Ballon Dor winner and we added Vidic and Evra. Those three denominators cannot be overlooked to suggest Rooney was the key component because without Vidic, Evra or the transformation of Ronaldo.....that success wouldn't have happened. Rooney was a big part of it though I doubt he was first name on the sheet anymore than VDS, Rio, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Vidic or Evra. That was simply a great team with a great manager.
It seems as if I need to clarify the point I was getting across in my OP. I am not referring to Rooney's status as a United legend, that is solidified because he was an unbelievable player for us for many years and part of one of our most successful periods. The contract situation has nothing to do with my OP.
This thread was about Rooney's legacy as a footballer in general. I'm not saying all those players were better than him because they weren't but we saw the very best of them longer than we did from Rooney. Like I said Rooney never had back to back great seasons, yet Salah, Kane and Suarez have all managed this. Drogba and Aguero in their peaks both led their teams to trophies something Rooney was never able to do as our main man.
To put it in a more simplistic way, Rooney as an 8/10 is better than Kane as a 9/10 but Kane has given us more seasons as a 9/10 if that makes any sense. Rooney in his 13 seasons with us was rarely at his very best for the whole season but could always guarantee a very good level across a number of seasons. Rooney only had one truly devastating season and Salah, Drogba, Suarez and Torres had better seasons than that while Kane, Aguero and RVP have delivered back to back incredible seasons in a way Rooney never did.
This thread was about Rooney's legacy as a footballer in general. I'm not saying all those players were better than him because they weren't but we saw the very best of them longer than we did from Rooney. Like I said Rooney never had back to back great seasons, yet Salah, Kane and Suarez have all managed this. Drogba and Aguero in their peaks both led their teams to trophies something Rooney was never able to do as our main man.
To put it in a more simplistic way, Rooney as an 8/10 is better than Kane as a 9/10 but Kane has given us more seasons as a 9/10 if that makes any sense. Rooney in his 13 seasons with us was rarely at his very best for the whole season but could always guarantee a very good level across a number of seasons. Rooney only had one truly devastating season and Salah, Drogba, Suarez and Torres had better seasons than that while Kane, Aguero and RVP have delivered back to back incredible seasons in a way Rooney never did.
One of the main players in SAFs last, and greatest team. Probably Uniteds greatest. All time top scorer. Legend if the word means anything
I enjoyed watching him more from 04-06 after the metatarsal at Chelsea in 06, his game seemed to change a bit, can’t quite put my finger on how, it just felt like it did. He was still great afterwards.
In fairness, I think Rooney was done at the highest level in is his mid-twenties.
I honestly can't remember a time other than a brief three year-period between 2007-10 where I would even accept Rooney playing for us as a striker. And that's only because we had the likes of Adebayor and Nicolas Bendnter leading the line. Before that period, we had Henry and after that we had RVP (who instantly became United's best striker when he moved there which says a lot).
Rooney was a really good player for United over the years but there are 2 things he wasn't:
1. Anywhere near as good as the media hyped him to be. The "sacrificed himself for the good of the team" stuff was just tiresome and he was the poster boy for the EPL #1 excuse of poor form being down to his manager "playing him out of position". Despite his "best position" changing every few weeks.
2. The key pivotal player in major success for the club. In all of the successful United sides he played in, he was A key player, but never in the top 2 or 3 most important players in the team. Fantastic servant, great goalscorer but people will remember Ronaldo firing United to titles and the Champions League, RVP to that league title and Yorke and Cole in 1999. Rooney had 2 outstanding goalscoring seasons and both times United finished 2nd.
1. Anywhere near as good as the media hyped him to be. The "sacrificed himself for the good of the team" stuff was just tiresome and he was the poster boy for the EPL #1 excuse of poor form being down to his manager "playing him out of position". Despite his "best position" changing every few weeks.
2. The key pivotal player in major success for the club. In all of the successful United sides he played in, he was A key player, but never in the top 2 or 3 most important players in the team. Fantastic servant, great goalscorer but people will remember Ronaldo firing United to titles and the Champions League, RVP to that league title and Yorke and Cole in 1999. Rooney had 2 outstanding goalscoring seasons and both times United finished 2nd.
This is pretty much what I was getting at in the OP.
Great complimentary piece of an excellent team but never the main guy in our successful teams. Ronaldo, Rio, Vidic and Evra outperformed him in most seasons.
Regardless of his form post 11-12, which was pretty bad, I'll always remember him as being one of the best players I've ever watched live for United during his prime.
He lost the explosiveness which he used to beat/bully players with pure physicality. When he was 18 he'd literally charge at them like a bull and the combination of his build/raw power and burst of acceleration made him unplayable at times.
He changed his game and became a smarter player. He worked on his movement in and around the box and started making smarter runs and scoring more tap ins and fewer 30-40 yard screamers.
Imagine the numbers he would have put up had he been a bit more selfish and not willing to sacrifice himself for the team?
Rooney was unreal and up there with the very best the PL has ever had to offer.
Rooney was unreal and up there with the very best the PL has ever had to offer.
Rooney is a weird one for me...
Just to get it out of the way: he's obviously a United legend. It would be insulting to claim otherwise. Just look at the amount of goals and assists he produced for us. Just look at how good he was at his best(excluding Messi and Ronaldo, he was probably the best striker in the world in 2009-2010).
But then there's all the other stuff... How he dealt with the media, how he acted when it was time for contract talks, his lack of professionalism off the field and how he always came back fat from his summer vacation. I also think he should have left United 2-3 years earlier than he did. It was painful to watch him play under Van Gaal and Mourinho(though he didn't play much), and this does leave a dent on his United resume. I get that not everyone get to leave on a high note and I get that it's not Rooney's fault that he got to play because we lacked other good options, but still...
He's a great player and a legend, but he never lived up to his full potential. His lack of professionalism probably plays a big part in this. I would never have him in all-time United XI. Not even if we start the clock in the PL era.
Just to get it out of the way: he's obviously a United legend. It would be insulting to claim otherwise. Just look at the amount of goals and assists he produced for us. Just look at how good he was at his best(excluding Messi and Ronaldo, he was probably the best striker in the world in 2009-2010).
But then there's all the other stuff... How he dealt with the media, how he acted when it was time for contract talks, his lack of professionalism off the field and how he always came back fat from his summer vacation. I also think he should have left United 2-3 years earlier than he did. It was painful to watch him play under Van Gaal and Mourinho(though he didn't play much), and this does leave a dent on his United resume. I get that not everyone get to leave on a high note and I get that it's not Rooney's fault that he got to play because we lacked other good options, but still...
He's a great player and a legend, but he never lived up to his full potential. His lack of professionalism probably plays a big part in this. I would never have him in all-time United XI. Not even if we start the clock in the PL era.
But Rooney wasn't that player, he didn't sacrifice himself, he played a game that suited him. I don't think he was all that comfortable being 'the man' in key games. Ronaldo was a more natural spotlight taker and then RVP.
I don't think Rooney or anyone thought 'sod scoring 40 a season, I'm going to help the team'
No probably not but he also wouldn't argue if asked to play out of position, something a Ronaldo probably would have taken issue with.
A clear and true legend for us that is treated very harshly imo. Maybe he wasn't that likeable off the pitch but on the pitch he was a legend.
I think Ronaldo played on the left, right and up front in his time for us ? I know Rooney moved about a bit but he usually played in a forward position, almost always. He was very rarely asked to play out of position. He was asked to play on the left in some big games but when you play the top teams you set up accordingly. Rooney was more open to putting in a shift in that role. Ronaldo was a better footballer.
Ronney was a winner. He might have done that City thing to spark some reactions from the club. I dont mind a player caring.
And as a fotballer he was at times world class. He didnt score enough goals for his abilities, but has a fotballer and as a teammate he was brilliant. A true team player and a club legend.
If anything, I think he is underrated by many
And as a fotballer he was at times world class. He didnt score enough goals for his abilities, but has a fotballer and as a teammate he was brilliant. A true team player and a club legend.
If anything, I think he is underrated by many
He’s Man United’s top scorer who played out of position to accommodate others often, and in some real sh1t teams post Fergie, legend!
Still awesome.
To sum him up, he's a legend, great player, had the talent to be even greater..
Also, for what it's worth, I think that Rooney suffers a lot from the fact that he's from the Fergie era. He'll be left out of most United PL starting XI's because of this. The competition is just brutal. Under normal circumstances, he would have received much more praise.
That Fergie team between 2006 and 2011 is probably the best English team ever. Ironically, this team is not getting nearly as much praise as it should because of Pep's Barca.
That Fergie team between 2006 and 2011 is probably the best English team ever. Ironically, this team is not getting nearly as much praise as it should because of Pep's Barca.
If Rooney didn't get injured in the 09-10 season (Bayen Munich QF), Utd would have won the European Cup that season. (Lyon in semi and Inter in the final).
He was a fantastic player for us but hard to treat him as a true legend as he clearly never loved the club or nor will he do so when he quits playing.
He will always be Everton and thats fair enough but its more the fact he only came to Utd for trophies and money and often tried to leave when things looked brighter elsewhere
He will always be Everton and thats fair enough but its more the fact he only came to Utd for trophies and money and often tried to leave when things looked brighter elsewhere
I don't think anything would have changed the direction the board were going tbf, and all players would want the best deal for themselves end of the day. Nothing that doesn't happen anywhere else, we see Madrid players every summer use our club to leverage a better contract for themselves.
No we wouldnt and in the European cup finals he played he was poor and usually taken off
So let's not pretend he did it for other reasons.
He was our only player against Barcelona at Wembley.
I didn't. I stated why I didn't take it personally as I agreed with what he said.
He stayed, Ronaldo left. And people still suck off the latter.
Don't get that personally.
Means nothing as were outclassed you not going to mention his other two performances
Ok but clearly what he said doesn’t tally with his actions. Yet your justification is that you agreed with what he said....yet he pocketed a hefty pay rise for his troubles.
He got offered a lot of money to stay. He stayed. As would you I'm sure.
It's what United has become nowadays sadly. Good wages, not so good at winning titles.
Very good thread and excellent OP. I completely agree with you.
That's a pretty big leap. United had quite a few of those "if onlys" through the years in the Champions League. Who knows what would have happened?
Despite what so many detractors think, the last few years of Rooneys career shouldnt define him. Its like the first 8- 10 years never happened, and only the last 5 are what people remember.
Pity really. My opinion- his legacy on the pitch is more than 99% of professional footballers. He just put way too many miles on the clock too early in his career for it to sustain into his 30s. He also never lived up to the hype, but he was never really going to...
Pity really. My opinion- his legacy on the pitch is more than 99% of professional footballers. He just put way too many miles on the clock too early in his career for it to sustain into his 30s. He also never lived up to the hype, but he was never really going to...
Yeah even Mancini said at the time after he signed his new contract that there was nothing in the links, but it's one of those myths that has became fact for a lot of people and used as another stick to beat Rooney.
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Drogba, RVP and Torres? Jesus christ
This is the myth part, has anyone involved ever confirmed that Rooney wanted to go to City? How do you request to leave for a specific club, especially when he never actually put a transfer request in?
If no one involved has ever confirmed the Rooney City story then it's as solid a transfer story as Gaitan to United was.
It's highly unlikely Rooney would have even wanted to go to City at that time and he would have knew United would have never sold him to City. He later confirmed that he wanted to move to Spain.
Have you read the part in Fergies last book about the whole episode?
Basically he didn't think Rooney wanted to leave for money, he thought he genuinely wanted to move for ambition because Rooney at the time didn't think United with their level of transfer investment were matching his ambitions. In hindsight given the spending pre and post Fergie retirement he wasn't exactly wrong.
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He had a very good performance in 2007-08. If we had scored that chance there would be no discussion. The next year was a bad performance from everyone including the Caf's darling Ronaldo.
This thread is just mind boggling.
Not to mention the number of times he ran the length of the pitch to recover the ball with a tackle.
Hes probably one of the most complete players Ive ever seen playing for us.
This just seems so 'us' that there's even a debate regarding how good our top scorer of all time actually was!
I understand the fans that can't forgive the unsavoury contract negotiations, I find it hard to look past myself.
But, as a player in his prime he was a total beast, and even once he started to decline he was still a top top player for us. You don't score 250+ goals, and hold down a key role for more than a decade at Manchester United (especially at a time where we were largely dominant domestically) without having a special kind of talent.
The constant Ronaldo and Messi comparisons are also unfair in my opinion. He never hit that level, but not many others have or ever will. For me he is definitely in an elite bracket and by far one of the best players I've seen play for the club in my lifetime.
I understand the fans that can't forgive the unsavoury contract negotiations, I find it hard to look past myself.
But, as a player in his prime he was a total beast, and even once he started to decline he was still a top top player for us. You don't score 250+ goals, and hold down a key role for more than a decade at Manchester United (especially at a time where we were largely dominant domestically) without having a special kind of talent.
The constant Ronaldo and Messi comparisons are also unfair in my opinion. He never hit that level, but not many others have or ever will. For me he is definitely in an elite bracket and by far one of the best players I've seen play for the club in my lifetime.
I think he gets unfair criticism because when he burst onto the scene he looked line he was going to be the English R9.
I think he was for a while. Actually come to think about it look at their careers.
I think he was for a while. Actually come to think about it look at their careers.
Was he as good as R9. Arguably.