Wayne Rooney's legacy

[Jeppers7]

your not quoting me but you brought pele into the conversation not the other guy

Sorry I don't get your point either. Are you struggling with the context of why I mentioned Pele ? Really ?

Insert any name you want that's considered in the top three players of all time. My question and point is the same. Do you think Rooney is in that bracket?

For me he is closer to a bracket of 'normal' footballers...insert Giggs Scholes Beckham Crouch(or others) than Pele, Maradonna, Messi, Ronaldo.

 

[arnie_ni]

Sorry I don't get your point either. Are you struggling with the context of why I mentioned Pele ? Really ?

Insert any name you want that's considered in the top three players of all time. My question and point is the same. Do you think Rooney is in that bracket?

For me he is closer to a bracket of 'normal' footballers...insert Giggs Scholes Beckham Crouch(or others) than Pele, Maradonna, Messi, Ronaldo.

Again.. your the only one comparing him to pele. No one else is.

He can still be world class at his time without being top 3 in the world.

 

[Hughes35]

Personality wise he is not as likeable as some of the other greats. He's not very charismatic and he doesn't talk too well..... As a pure footballer though he was fantastic.

Had his best years between 17-24 though so a lot of people remember the slightly older Rooney.

 

[RedRonaldo]

There were couple of things which would have done some damage to his legacy:

- overhyped by English media at the beginning, and never quite live up to the hype
- early comparison with Ronaldo, which fell off the cliff later on as their career progress
- during the era of goals, stats, numbers and efficiency (era of Messi/Ronaldo), as a forward player, he didn't score enough in many of those (except 2 season where he scored 34 goals) , consistent 15-19 goals per season is a decent return but not that great.
- never have a year where he dominates the league, similar to the likes of Suarez, Bale, Salah etc
- Flirting around with City during later stage of his career, and falling out with Fergie
- His decline when he is only at 30-31, with big contract too

All in all, he is still a Man Utd legend though. During his peak he was a very good player, and he has many consistent years at the club too. I would definitely put him in my Man Utd squad of the decade, or something.

 

[dev1l]

What we are currently missing (apart from the obvious talent) is his determination on the pitch. We are lacking characters like him and Keano

 

[Eyepopper]

I'm not sure what your point is here? You think Rooney is in that bracket of player to be considered one of the top three players of all time ?

No.

Who does?

But he certainly wasn't an 'ordinary' player.

As it turns out, there might be a few classifications that fall between ordinary and top 3 players of all time.

 

[fps]

The stuff about him being below Kane and some of those others is definitely nonsense, but he was a wrecking machine and can you imagine how sought after he’d be in those high pressing systems which are now in vogue? He’d be one of the most sought after players in the world.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Wasnt the source for the links to City the Daily Mail?

Can't recall Fergie ever saying he was going to go to City, and Rooney himself, afterwards, said:

"Everyone was saying that I was definitely going to Manchester City. Believe me if I had gone it wouldn't have been in England."

To me, the City "links" always seemed overblown, even at the time.

What?! That was exactly what Fergie went out and said on the presser - you missed that big of an event?! Why would he say it if there was nothing about it? City were trying to buy themselves superstars at every chance, so of course the links were realistic. He might have used the City links for a payraise, but Fergie probably called his bluff by going public on that press-conference

Truly a moment, where you could see how well Fergie understood the personality and inner workings and the agents of a player. Basically what he did was shame him into place in public, and use his own brand and loyalty against him, and it worked. Masterclass from Fergie. Imagine how he'd have handled the whole Pogba circus pt II we've had. Probably would never have gotten him in the first place. He really knew how big of a rat Raiola was - Skip fast forward to Woodward who made short term deals with the devil to keep his supporters temporarily happy.

 

[GenZRed]

Rooney will always be one of my favorite players. His will to win puts out current crop of players to shame. While he never really shone for England at a major tournament after Euro 2004, the whole so-called 'Golden Generation' never did either. There was obviously a lack of team spirit in that England squad.

As for the whole business with him wanting to go to Man City, as others have mentioned, that was because Rooney was not happy at the board for not investing in quality players, when you look at the state of the squad that Moyes inherited from Fergie, I think Rooney was right.

For the record, I'm not blaming SAF for any of our troubles. His ability to motivate the players and get average players to play out of their skins is a testament to how great of a manager he was. I'm simply saying our squad declined dramatically psot-2009.

 

[Eyepopper]

What?! That was exactly what Fergie went out and said on the presser - you missed that big of an event?!

I was taking a lot of drugs at the time, but yeah genuinely dont remember it. Also can't find any quotes from Fergie saying Rooney wanted to join City.

Be interested in seeing them if you can dig them up.

 

[Real Madras]

At one point Wayne Rooney was world class. You don’t need to be in the top 3 players in the world to be World class. He was immense for us over a very long period and I am thankful he was our player. In my eyes and absolute legend of Manchester United.

 

[Jev]

He had about three seasons where he was definitely one of the five best players in the world, consistently. Whether he quite lived up to his promise, I don't know but it wasn't far off. The reason why he's not as highly rated as he deserves is that people remember the average player he became, rather than the outstanding player he was. He simply regressed too early for people to remember the good stuff.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Having him and Tevez upfront was fantastic, both were aggressive, hard working and fantastic techncially. Adding Ronaldo was just overkill.

But Wayne unfortunately doesn't get the credit he deserves. He is one of the best players in the history of the club and was integral to our most successful era in club history. For me, he had greater impact on the club than Cantona.

Don't think anyone had a more bigger impact than Cantona. Rooney will always be a legend but for me Cantona was a god. Personally I don't think we would of won half as much if it wasn't for him. The final piece in SAFs puzzle.

 

[ROFLUTION]

I was taking a lot of drugs at the time, but yeah genuinely dont remember it. Also can't find any quotes from Fergie saying Rooney wanted to join City.

Be interested in seeing them if you can dig them up.

Part of it here.. Rest is on Youtube. Fergie's pretty inaudible in the longer video though

 

[Neil67]

Rooney is a club legend and the City shite one word Law!

 

[Eyepopper]

Part of it here.. Rest is on Youtube. Fergie's pretty inaudible in the longer video though

Is the part where he said Rooney wants to go City in the ones on YouTube

 

[tompo18]

It's easy to forget how good Rooney was for United, I'm guilty of it at times too.

The stats speak for themselves but remember he was a critical part of a large portion of the best United sides we have had, watch some footage of him again and it'll bring back memories of some great games.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Is the part where he said Rooney wants to go City in the ones on YouTube

Well he just openly talks about Rooney and his contract situation in detail - something you almost never did publically at the time. Doesnt mention City, but it was very clear at the time that he was commenting on his leave request for City, so there wasnt any need to spell it out. Also if he had been more neanderthal in his wording, he'd have pushed him away from United which was not the purpose of Fergie going public. The purpose of this spin-maneuvre was to make Rooney tell the World and the fans that he (Mr Manchester United at the time) wasn't wanting a move for shallow money.

Sort of unheard of Fergie to just put all the cards on the table, which back then put a lot of pressure on Rooney and created a lot of headlines at the time, which then pressured Rooney to stay and show his "loyalty" - was a genius move by Fergie really.. To play the "hurt" one and put the pressure on Rooney to stay and show he wasn't just doing football for money

 

[Spoony]

Great player for United.

 

[Jeppers7]

Again.. your the only one comparing him to pele. No one else is.

He can still be world class at his time without being top 3 in the world.

That's nothing to do with the other posters point either, not sure why you got involved ?

If I'm right you're agreeing though that Rooney is more towards the ordinary than extraordinary? Which was the original point (my opinion) I made that the poster you're referring to disagreed.

 

[Eyepopper]

Doesnt mention City

So, as I said.

but it was very clear at the time that he was commenting on his leave request for City

That was the line pushed by the Daily Mail, and their "sources" (who also said there was NO chance he was going to stay btw) which has since become the "Rooney threatened to join City" narrative.

 

[SirAF]

Well he just openly talks about Rooney and his contract situation in detail - something you almost never did publically at the time. Doesnt mention City, but it was very clear at the time that he was commenting on his leave request for City, so there wasnt any need to spell it out. Also if he had been more neanderthal in his wording, he'd have pushed him away from United which was not the purpose of Fergie going public. The purpose of this spin-maneuvre was to make Rooney tell the World and the fans that he (Mr Manchester United at the time) wasn't wanting a move for shallow money.

Sort of unheard of Fergie to just put all the cards on the table, which back then put a lot of pressure on Rooney and created a lot of headlines at the time, which then pressured Rooney to stay and show his "loyalty" - was a genius move by Fergie really.. To play the "hurt" one and put the pressure on Rooney to stay and show he wasn't just doing football for money

Absolutely, Ferguson played a blinder there.

 

[ROFLUTION]

So, as I said.



That was the line pushed by the Daily Mail, and their "sources" (who also said there was NO chance he was going to stay btw) which has since become the "Rooney threatened to join City" narrative.

become? But it was completely realistic at the time and also what Fergie basically commented on. Was very clear at the time

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Wayne Rooney is currently the all time goalscorer for Manchester United and England with 253 and 53 goals respectively. This is a great achievement but I feel as time goes on he's one of those players whose legacy will diminish because he wasn't as great as we thought he was. I know it sounds crazy especially after the opening sentence but hear me out.

Rooney burst onto the scene in spectacular fashion and as a 16 year old. The talent he possessed was actually scary. The things he was doing as a teenager made you almost sure he'd be a ballon d'or one day, if you were too young back then just look at it as you currently do with Mbappe. His Euro 2004 performances and his debut hattrick with us or his goal vs Newcastle at OT were things he did at 18 or younger. His first season with us he showed flashes of brilliance but was inconsistent as expected. The following season 2005/06 he began to show his great ability more consistently and was outstanding. He led us along with RVN that season and when Ruud was banished towards the end of the season he took a leading role alongside Saha and Ronaldo to a lesser extent. It was from this moment, I believed Rooney would go on an be unbelievable but he never really was outside of a couple of seasons at best.

His best seasons statistically were 09/10 and 11/12 where he bagged 34 goals. He also had an unreal 4 months or so towards the end of 10/11 (after an abhorrent start it must be mentioned). He was the true leader of the team in 09/10 and 11/12 both these seasons and we won nothing both years. In 10/11 the league was pretty much won without him although he was instrumental in reaching the CL final. Rooney was never really 'The guy' for us he was an excellent complementary piece.

I look at PL attackers in his time with better and more consistent and influential peaks and can anyone really argue against Drogba, Ronaldo, Suarez, Hazard, Torres, RvP, Aguero, Salah and even Kane.

Rooney had 16 seasons in the PL and never won PFA player of the year or won the golden boot and only made PFA team of the year three times. Kane for comparison has made PFA team of the year four times and won the golden boot twice in only 6 few seasons. Rooney has more talent in his toenail than Kane but Kane has proven to be more effective and consistently great than Rooney ever was. The same holds for all the others in that list.

Rooney's longevity is where he scores his points compared to his rivals. He was in the PL much longer than them and scored a good amount of goals each season. However he never truly delivered at his best consistently like others managed to.

His legacy is just phenomenal.He’s a living legend for me....One of the greatest players to have ever played for the club,our all time top goal scorer....He was just such an integral part of our greatest era(2007-2009),he was freakishly talented but also selfless and dedicated.

Yeah,his transfer sagas did damage his reputation,but it should never ever take away from the fact that he was a great servant to our club.He was unquestionably one of the most iconic players to have ever played for Man United....I would give anything to have such a player in this United team...

 

[Jeppers7]

No.

Who does?

But he certainly wasn't an 'ordinary' player.

As it turns out, there might be a few classifications that fall between ordinary and top 3 players of all time.

Indeed there is and he does, I didn't say he was ordinary. I said he was closer to ordinary than extraordinary. I actually rate Scholes higher than Rooney, his brain and technique were superior but Rooney as a forward was more explosive although never really scored enough or consistently enough, he was always patchy.

Scholes isn't ordinary either. But closer to a normal group of players you could care to mention than the greatest of all time.

Point with Rooney, as mentioned in the OP, is that when breaking through he was hyped as a future GOAT, the white Pele, the reality is that he's closer in comparison to Drogba, Torres, Suarez than Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane from his era.

For some reason you decided to refute that suggestion with some YouTube clips? Not sure why that was. You seemed offended by the suggestion he is CLOSER to ordinary than extraordinary. I've put context into it. It's my opinion. If yours is different, why not tell me yours? Rather than having these pathetic little internet squabbles of semantics of he said/she said.

 

[Eyepopper]

become? But it was completely realistic at the time and also what Fergie basically commented on. Was very clear at the time

It was only clear if you swallowed the media reports which were basically Chelsea or City were his only options.

Fergie never mentioned City, and Rooney afterwards said if he had left he would've went abroad.

Personally, I dont think he was ever going to leave, it was a contract negotiation and a bit of a stupid move by his agent.

 

[Eyepopper]

Indeed there is and he does, I didn't say he was ordinary. I said he was closer to ordinary than extraordinary. I actually rate Scholes higher than Rooney, his brain and technique were superior but Rooney as a forward was more explosive although never really scored enough or consistently enough, he was always patchy.

Scholes isn't ordinary either. But closer to a normal group of players you could care to mention than the greatest of all time.

Point with Rooney, as mentioned in the OP, is that when breaking through he was hyped as a future GOAT, the white Pele, the reality is that he's closer in comparison to Drogba, Torres, Suarez than Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane from his era.

For some reason you decided to refute that suggestion with some YouTube clips? Not sure why that was. You seemed offended by the suggestion he is CLOSER to ordinary than extraordinary. I've put context into it. It's my opinion. If yours is different, why not tell me yours? Rather than having these pathetic little internet squabbles of semantics of he said/she said.

You're the one dealing in semantics mate.

He was clearly an extraordinary player - he's Utd & England's all time top scorer FFS.

 

[fps]

No.

Who does?

But he certainly wasn't an 'ordinary' player.

As it turns out, there might be a few classifications that fall between ordinary and top 3 players of all time.

Well said. As for arguments about goal contribution, I think Rooney has that work rate and violent physicality of a Ribery, added to everything else he brought as an attacker. As I and others have said, in the pressing systems now used he’d have been a monster.

In terms of development, I was surprised he never quite became the killer in front of goal or the killer passer. At Man Utd he went straight into the first team and perhaps such was his dedication to the team he didn’t try things out and make the mistakes of Cristiano or of a normal younger player.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I wasn't on the Caf when he was in his prime (20-25) however, I'd like to think he wasn't afforded as many excuses as our current forwards are. Guy was played all over the park, got on with it and exceled in almost every position. In 09/10, he was incredible and had it not been for that injury, we may have won the CL that season. Immense player. My favourite player.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Putting aside my opinions of him as a bloke, (didn't like him at Everton, didn't like him at utd and don't like him now) it's undeniable he was a world class player, and a utd legend for what he contributed to the club on the pitch, but equally he could have achieved even more if he wasn't so unprofessional, he took awful care of himself, and unless my memory is playing tricks on me didn't he get dropped more than once for turning up to training either hungover or pissed?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm not sure what your point is here? You think Rooney is in that bracket of player to be considered one of the top three players of all time ?

So everybody but Maradona, Pele and Messi are more often ordinary?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sorry I don't get your point either. Are you struggling with the context of why I mentioned Pele ? Really ?

Insert any name you want that's considered in the top three players of all time. My question and point is the same. Do you think Rooney is in that bracket?

For me he is closer to a bracket of 'normal' footballers...insert Giggs Scholes Beckham Crouch(or others) than Pele, Maradonna, Messi, Ronaldo.

Normal - Giggs Scholes Beckham Crouch

What the feck

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Indeed there is and he does, I didn't say he was ordinary. I said he was closer to ordinary than extraordinary. I actually rate Scholes higher than Rooney, his brain and technique were superior but Rooney as a forward was more explosive although never really scored enough or consistently enough, he was always patchy.

Scholes isn't ordinary either. But closer to a normal group of players you could care to mention than the greatest of all time.

Point with Rooney, as mentioned in the OP, is that when breaking through he was hyped as a future GOAT, the white Pele, the reality is that he's closer in comparison to Drogba, Torres, Suarez than Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane from his era.

For some reason you decided to refute that suggestion with some YouTube clips? Not sure why that was. You seemed offended by the suggestion he is CLOSER to ordinary than extraordinary. I've put context into it. It's my opinion. If yours is different, why not tell me yours? Rather than having these pathetic little internet squabbles of semantics of he said/she said.

You seem to be rather obsessed with the 'while Pele' thing. He was absurdly well developed beyond his years as a teenager, which created insane hype. While I expected him to reach the level of an Henry for example, he was an absolutely phenomenal player. Everything doesnt revolve around a handful of top tier footballers. Besides there's many who don't even consider one of Cruyff/Beckenbauer/Ronaldo (either) to be in an all time top 3 (and hence in that narrow conversation), so why keep bringing up this tag in order to pull down other all time greats - because the likes of Giggs, Keane, Rooney are indeed all time greats of the game.

 

[ROFLUTION]

It was only clear if you swallowed the media reports which were basically Chelsea or City were his only options.

Fergie never mentioned City, and Rooney afterwards said if he had left he would've went abroad.

Personally, I dont think he was ever going to leave, it was a contract negotiation and a bit of a stupid move by his agent.

Mate, it was dead obvious at the time that it was City and not Chelsea who was talked about as they were the new top dog in class moneywise, willing to splash huge sums, but lets agree to disagree. I dont feel like anyone was "swallowing media reports". But yeah I also, think it mostly was a cry for a bigger salary. Understandably Rooney has played it down since.

 

[kambinks]

Personally I never thought what Rooney did was that big of a deal with the whole contract stuff. You can argue its whats actually happening right now with De Gea who stalls his contract for a bump. I remember agreeing with him questioning the clubs ambition at that time along with most of the fan base when we replaced Ronaldo with, well Obertan. A few legends have played for city so again I don't see it as a betrayal of sorts. Even the fan base thought it was a good idea to sell him when Mourinho was asking around for him at Chelsea so its not like the fans deserved said loyalty either. You'll see that being repeated a lot that we should've sold him when in his decline years (at least in this forums matchday and post game threads back then).

I also can't take the list of players in the OP seriously. Kane wouldn't have a chance in the world winning the PFA player of the year or the golden boot if the league had players with the caliber of RVN, Ronaldo, Gerard and Lampard. He carried the team to win the league after Ronaldo left, something that RVP did as well but people wank to RVP like he bleeds United. Meanwhile Rooney has been with the team for longer compared to RVP or RVN, spent his peak at United through the years unlike Ronaldo. Most of the best highlights in youtube for Ronaldo and the team in general will usually have Rooney playing a part on it one way or the other.

If Giggs is still a legend even with his off field antics, Ronaldo "I am a slave at united" gets a pass and forgiven by the fanbase, RVP gets cult status just for his 2 good seasons in the team, The countless number of players united have overpaid players with their contract demands, I'm not sure how anyone can justify Rooney not being one of the recent legends.

 

[Raoul]

Great player. Would've been far greater if he managed to maintain his world class level into his 30s like CR7 has. 20-30 years on, this is what will separate their legacies.

 

[Jeppers7]

become? But it was completely realistic at the time and also what Fergie basically commented on. Was very clear at the time

You're absolutely correct here. I live in Manchester, the story broke from nowhere really almost overnight. Rooney was going to City, it was happening. Not a rumour....it was what was going to happen. Rooney had agreed to it and would force the move through. It wasn't even considered something that might happen. It was happening. It wasn't one news source it was leaked from the club, both clubs I think. Talks had taken place between Rooney and City and he was going to force the move. The next day I think fergie came out and confirmed the story. He didn't need to mention a club because everyone knew what was happening, who it was, what was happening. It would've been catastrophic at the time for us as a club and our image with regards being the dominant club. There was no other club, no move abroad etc. It was City. The whole world knew.

Later Rooney came out with his statement, made his play. Then he got a visit from some fans, got offered a double your money contract and the rest is history.

It can't be painted as Rooney doing what was best for the club!! He did what was best for himself, like drinking and smoking, certainly SAF played a blinder but I do t think he ever trusted in Rooney after that.

 

[Jeppers7]

You're the one dealing in semantics mate.

He was clearly an extraordinary player - he's Utd & England's all time top scorer FFS.

Ok that's your opinion...you're perfectly entitled to that. Why did t you just say that you think Rooney is extraordinary?

 

[Nickelodeon]

If we look at our 5 titles in 7 years from 2006-13, Rooney was the common denominator across it and was more often than not the first name on the team sheet.

It’s not untrue to say that his off field antics including the transfer requests along with the drastic decline in the last 3-4 years have tainted his legacy and brought his ranking down as a United legend. But, he is a legend and was a major part of one of the most successful United teams ever and deserves more respect than criticism thrown his way.

Also, his performance as our main striker in 2009-10 (34 goals iirc) whilst missing the last 6-8 weeks of the season was as complete a season as I’ve seen from a United striker.

On a personal level, I remember having the option to purchase a United jersey in 2007 and being conflicted between Rooney and Ronaldo. I chose Rooney thinking that Ronaldo will be the better player but Rooney will be a bigger legend for us. 12 years on, I stand by that judgment.

 

[Dante]

He played 500+ games at the highest level. Other than the odd physical freak, that appears to be the limit for the human body.