WC All Stars Chain Draft Round 1- Crappy vs Arbitrium

[crappycraperson]

Welcome to the WC all stars chain draft.

Please note that players must be strictly judged on the basis of the performances against the WC they are listed against.

Team Crappy

vs

Team Arbitrium

 

[crappycraperson]

Team Crappy Tactics

Formation : 4-3-3

Tactics

Defense - Argie 1990 hero is the last line of defense with a solid center back pairing of Forster and Costacurta. Both of them had great tournaments in 1986 and 1994. Full back wise, Vogts is at home in RB and Ashely cole at his prime for England in 2006 takes up the left flank

Midfield - A trio of south american stalwarts. Golden ball 1958 winner Didi will get the perfect platform to shine in this midfield supported by the Uraguyan Varela. Cerezo takes up the deep playmaker role bring his 1978 form for Brazil when they finished third.

Attack - Garrincha had one of the best solo performances for WCs in 1962 and gets to play his best role in this team. Kocsis had a stormer of 1954 WC and will finish any chances he get. Boniek at his peak in 1982 was part of the all star team and iwll play his normal roaming role from the left.

Summary - Overall the team has the players you want for this draft context. All excelled in their respective tournaments. The team is also designed to allow both Garrincha and Didi to shine. They are the ones who will win this one.

 

[crappycraperson]

Team Arbitrium Tactics

Formation: 4231

Instructions: one centre mid to go, one to sit. The front 4 will be fluid and bring the full backs into play when necessary. Passarella will be asked to respect the threat Garrincha poses and stick to defensive duties first but will get forward for every free kick corner.

Reasons why I will win: Such a solid spine through the middle with Pele conducting the play. No defender/midfielder in history had a tournament that pound for pound can deal with the threat Pele poses here.

Thoughts on opposition: What a team, considering his place in the draft. Didi and Varela is a very strong partnership but Tardelli Neeskens are tireless and it’ll be some battle in there. Kocsis poses a huge threat in the air but both my centre backs can cope physically. Garrincha will get joy when one on one with Lizarazu, but he’s still got a bit of work to do once he’s past him and going the other way, Hagi and Lizarazu could end up having a lot of joy against Vogts thanks to the extra attention Pele must command in this game from Crappys CM’s.


Player Profiles;

Luis Conejo- Goalkeeper
World Cup All Star 1990

Performed so well at the 1990 World Cup that he simply had to be included in the team of the tournament. His performances secured Costa Rica second place in a tough group containing Brazil, Scotland and Sweded and he placed himself into Costa Rican Footballing Folklore, an unsurpassed hero until Joel Campbell’s 2014 exploits.

Maicon- Right back
World Cup All Star 2010

Such was his performance in this World Cup (and the lead up to it) he relegated Dani Alves to the bench, forcing him to make his impact as a right sided midfielder. His goal against North Korea epitomized what he was about, and he demonstrated his attacking and defensive versatility all tournament.

Thiago Silva- Centre Back
World Cup All Star 2014

Was absolutely sensational for Brazil throughout the world cup and its highly likely that with him in the side, Germany don't beat Brazil 7-1 In the Semi Final. Capable on the ball, and fast enough to keep up with any attacker, he has the strength and ability in the air to deal with the threat of Kocsis as well as form a formiddable partnership with Passarella.

Daniel Passarella- Centre Back- Captain
World Cup all star 1978
World Cup Winner

Sensational in 1978, as he led Argentina to their first World cup. One of the most iconic South American playerS in history, he captains the side and given the threat of Garrincha on his side he'll be ordered to only get forward on set pieces.

Bixente Lizarazu- Left Back
World Cup Winner

The Jiu-Jitsu warrior has one simple instruction here, to stop Garrincha at all costs, short of a straight red card offence. He will take a yellow card very early, leaving his mark on the diminutive Brazilian and then when possible, will get past the midfield and join the attack. Capable of manning the left side on his own, he'll get lots of joy here due to crappys defences HUGE task in dealing with the fluidity of my front 4.

Johan Neeskens- Central Midfield
World Cup All Star 1974

Silver boot winner with 5 goals Neeskens was like Cruyff's General this tournament. He and Tardelli have very simple instructions, since both were so good at covering box-to-box, when one goes, the other stays. He will love this system.

Marco Tardelli- Central Midfield
World Cup All Star 1982
World Cup Winner

Whilst he was excellent in this World Cup, he's been picked because of the passion he brings. His celebration in the 1982 final epitomizes everything about the exhilaration and joy of football. He celebrated the way any fan would if they scored a goal in a World Cup Final and for me, it's top 3 most iconic moments in the history of the sport, not just this tournament.

Luis Figo- Attacking Midfielder (Starting from the right)
World Cup All Star 2006

Portugal were named the most exciting team of 2006 and the mature Figo had a huge part to play in this. He excelled on the wing and as a right sided Number 10 in this tournament, and brings the right element of flair to dovetail nicely with the rest of the attack in this side. Will be given licence to roam, and asked to use his considerable experience and strength to hold the ball up and bring in Maicon to the game as he marauds down that right hand side, as well as occupying enough of crappy's intentions that he'll naturally create some room for Pele and Hagi to be left with a little extra time on the ball.

Gheorghe Hagi- Attacking Midfielder (Starting from the left)
World Cup All Star 1994

3 Goals, and the catalyst for Romania's surprise run to the quarter finals, Hagi is perfect for this role. Capable of drifting out to the wing and shooting from anywhere (see his goal v Colombia) Hagi was almost impossible to shove off the ball and didn't mind getting stuck in. He will occupy Vogts fairly often in this game and with his dribbling abilities, he can easily keep a hold of the ball until Lizarazu has made his overlap.

Pele- Attacking Midfielder (Free role/Number 10)
World Cup All Star and Player of the Tournament 1970
World Cup Winner
Involved in 14 of the 19 goals Brazil scored, Pele was the focal point for what is without a shadow of a doubt the greatest national team in the history of the game. The best player on the park, surrounded by players who bring all the qualities that the 1970 supporting cast brought.

Careca- Striker

The joint second top goalscorer of 1986 (tied with Maradona) Careca was basically heralded as what was missing in Brazil's 1982 nearly squad. Named by 442 magazine as the 4th best player of that world cup, it's hard not to imagine him being devastating with the supporting cast behind.

 

[crappycraperson]

@Arbitrium

Poll is for 25 hours since I was not sure if you would submit immediately

 

[Deleted member 101472]

@crappycraperson

I like the match up but would have obviously have liked to avoid your team. I think the game is set up for the stars to shine on both sides.

Out of interest (and if you have the time) id love to know more about Bonieks role. I considered picking him early to take the role I have Hagi playing, but everything I read had him more centrally and some even said he played as a striker that tournament. Obviously, he CAN play the role but at that World Cup, where did he actually play as I can’t pin it down.

 

[crappycraperson]

@crappycraperson

I like the match up but would have obviously have liked to avoid your team. I think the game is set up for the stars to shine on both sides.

Out of interest (and if you have the time) id love to know more about Bonieks role. I considered picking him early to take the role I have Hagi playing, but everything I read had him more centrally and some even said he played as a striker that tournament. Obviously, he CAN play the role but at that World Cup, where did he actually play as I can’t pin it down.

Yes, it is a bad draw for both teams. Shame

Regarding Boniek, that's the point of his role either for club or country. He could play across the line in front 4 and had a roaming role of sorts. Even in that WC and here, he would pop up at left, center or up front. Given Mane will own the right flank, he would avoid that. It suits this formation since I don't have a proper AM and only one striker up front. Shame @antohan is not around now days otherwise he could wax lyrical about Boniek much better than me.

 

[crappycraperson]

Not sure how much more i would be able to post so would just present my take on the match up -

- Having 2 DMs in Cerezo and Varela would be useful against the central threat of Pele and Hagi. Given Vogts won't have a direct left winger to go up against, he would tuck in, resulting in even less space for the oppostion.
- Cole vs Figo is a good match up. Cole's 2006 form means he would not struggle against a Figo past his prime.
- Garrincha vs Lizarazu and passeralla if I am not mistaken about oppsition's tactics. First not sure limiting Pasarella's bombing forward role is his optimum usage. Second it would leave thiago silva for Kocsis, not a good match up for thiago IMO.
- Didi is the best midfielder on the park. Lothar is the only CM better than him in this draft. His match up against either Tardelli or Nesskens would be good but he has the upper hand given his supporting crew.

Overall, Pele is his big X factor here. But I hope people give Garrincha his due, especially for his 1962 form. He after all also won the Golden ball in that tournament for Brazil. Then to add to that I have Didi too, another golden ball winner for 1958 WC win.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I could understand some criticism coming Figos way (even though he made team of the tournament and had 3 assists) but one of the things in my favour for this game, Is that he happened to have a really good game against England and had a few flashes of his old self against Ashley Cole, who will be the closest to marking him for a lot of the game.

In the video See 3:58, 4:28 and every touch after 4:58

 

[crappycraperson]

I could understand some criticism coming Figos way (even though he made team of the tournament and had 3 assists) but one of the things in my favour for this game, Is that he happened to have a really good game against England and had a few flashes of his old self against Ashley Cole, who will be the closest to marking him for a lot of the game.

In the video See 3:58, 4:28 and every touch after 4:58

Yet, Portugal could not score in that match and that too against 10 men England for half the game (30 + 30). Job well done for Cole

Figo was fine in that tournament. I just said that he was past his prime which is evidently true.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Regarding Didi (and it’s very difficult to compare the eras) but I don’t think he had anyone as good as Neeskens playing directly against him, and I rate Neeskens ball winning a little bit better than Didi. No doubt who the better creator is though, but if we take only the tournament performance into account then the gap between the two isn’t that big and not an advantage to either side.

For me this games come down to who’s influence you rate higher between Pele and garrincha and a case can be made for either. I just really worry for Vogts in this game when garrincha isn’t attacking, because Hagi and lizarazu can cause him a lot of problems.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Yet, Portugal could not score in that match and that too against 10 men England for half the game (30 + 30). Job well done for Cole

Figo was fine in that tournament. I just said that he was past his prime which is evidently true.

It’s just one of those rare examples this draft when we can use footage of the opponents going at it.

FWIW Cole didn’t do badly (great tackle early on in that video) but Figo did give him the runaround a few times

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Careca

Essentially what was Missing from the 1982 Brazil squad, this is a goal I can see my team being capable of scoring.


He will pose a huge threat to both crappys centre backs with his movement, which is music to the ears of Pele who will get even more space and have a lot of time with just Cerezo marking him (mismatch IMO)

 

[crappycraperson]

Regarding Didi (and it’s very difficult to compare the eras) but I don’t think he had anyone as good as Neeskens playing directly against him, and I rate Neeskens ball winning a little bit better than Didi. No doubt who the better creator is though, but if we take only the tournament performance into account then the gap between the two isn’t that big and not an advantage to either side.

For me this games come down to who’s influence you rate higher between Pele and garrincha and a case can be made for either. I just really worry for Vogts in this game when garrincha isn’t attacking, because Hagi and lizarazu can cause him a lot of problems.

- I think Didi is better overall for his career or WC is better than Nessekens. This is Didi going head to head with Kopa in that semi, Kopa won the Ballon'dor for 1958. .

Most importantly he has the role here to shine. Does Neeskens? I am not sure. He was great for the dutch in 1974 wc in midfield three since that allowed him to bomb upfront when Cryuff vacated the central position. Here with Pele front and center, not sure he would get the same role.

- I don't think it is just down to Pele and Garrincha at all. Supporting cast plays a big role. For example - Kocsis is in different league to Careca and much more likely to impact the game than him.

- Vogts is the one of the best defensive full backs in history of the game. I really don't see Lizarazu and Hagi (who is likely to drift to the center rather than attack out wide like a proper winger) troubling him. Plus I am surprised you want to commit Lizrazu going forward when Garrincha will make right flank his home.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

On Passarella, it really would depend how the game went but when he has the opportunity to “be himself” then he’s welcome to it, he’s just on the field knowing that his full back will need a dig out from time to time.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

@crappycraperson

The only thing I would argue on Kocsis is that it’s a joke he lasted all the way back to you in the drafting

 

[crappycraperson]

@crappycraperson

The only thing I would argue on Kocsis is that it’s a joke he lasted all the way back to you in the drafting

Didi was a first round pick in last WC draft by @Annahnomoss and he ended up winning the whole thing too. So I was already shocked that I got him round 2 let alone Kocsis in third one too.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Pele will command so much of the attention in this game that scenarios like this will play out too;


Maicon had an excellent tournament, rightly named as an all star. Being first choice at a WC over the man who was part of the greatest phase in Barcelona history is no mean feat.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Didi was a first round pick in last WC draft by @Annahnomoss and he ended up winning the whole thing too. So I was already shocked that I got him round 2 let alone Kocsis in third one too.

Especially in the fact that stats influence the way we look at things, and Kocsis still has the best GPG ratio at the WC.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Just can’t have this thread and not get this in here;

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Good video here on el kaizer, depicts why he won’t shy out of challenging Kocsis (00:29 of video) and how he can fare in one on one situations with a very tricky right winger (01:15 of video)

 

[P-Nut]

Really interesting and close match up this in my opinion.

I don't actually think it will come down to the star players (Pele and Garrincha) as both will have lots of joy as has been pointed out. The difference could come down to which supporting players benefit most from the attention afforded to both star men.

For that reason I see Crappy getting quite a bit of joy from Boniek. Thiago Silva will be fully occupied with Kocsis and Maicon might struggle to track Boniek drifting inside and unleashing strikes at goal.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Really interesting and close match up this in my opinion.

I don't actually think it will come down to the star players (Pele and Garrincha) as both will have lots of joy as has been pointed out. The difference could come down to which supporting players benefit most from the attention afforded to both star men.

For that reason I see Crappy getting quite a bit of joy from Boniek. Thiago Silva will be fully occupied with Kocsis and Maicon might struggle to track Boniek drifting inside and unleashing strikes at goal.

How do you envision Boniek covering maicon, who easily covered the whole flank in 2010?

 

[P-Nut]

How do you envision Boniek covering maicon, who easily covered the whole flank in 2010?

I see it more as being starved of the opportunity to continually bomb forward. I'm not saying he won't get joy that way, however I think throughout the game more joy would be found going the other way.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I see it more as being starved of the opportunity to continually bomb forward. I'm not saying he won't get joy that way, however I think throughout the game more joy would be found going the other way.

The thing is going the other way, Boniek is more likely to find himself against Neeskens than Maicon. Boniek played way more centrally and wasn’t a left winger, so really Maicon has the choice to tuck in and help but the reality (based on the way Maicon and Boniek played in their respective tournaments) is the Brazilian will have much more chances to utilize his strengths.

 

[idmanager]

Haven't voted yet but I am sure this will be the first close game votes wise.

 

[P-Nut]

The thing is going the other way, Boniek is more likely to find himself against Neeskens than Maicon. Boniek played way more centrally and wasn’t a left winger, so really Maicon has the choice to tuck in and help but the reality (based on the way Maicon and Boniek played in their respective tournaments) is the Brazilian will have much more chances to utilize his strengths.

Whilst Neeskens will help out a lot of the time, it's also apparent that the team will be dragged to defending crappys right hand side with Garrincha more. Meaning Neeskens would likely pick up Didi and then you have Maicon against Boniek.

As I said it's a really tight game and little things are all that can really be used to split both teams.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

One thing I feel I have In my advantage here is goal output from central midfield (which in turn places less emphasis on dealing with their attacking threat)

Didi- 1 goal
Varela- 1 goal
Cerezo- 0 goals

Neeskens- 5 goals
Tardelli- 2 goals

I also think crappy would have been better with an out and out left winger (someone like dzajic) which would have gotten even more out of Kocsis.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Having watched a bit more of Boniek, I’m more confident of Maicon having a great game here. As mentioned the goalscoring threat from crappys midfielders isn’t much so I’ll have enough men behind the ball and given bonieks inclination in 1982 to not spend that much time on the left, Maicons really off to the races at will.


Goals 1 and 3 from his best game of the tournament, he’s starting from the right, so by his own nature he’ll end up limiting the effect garrincha has on the game.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

And here you go, pretty much a replica of what lizarazu and Hagi could do down that left side.


Hagi was amazing at that World Cup. Romania pretty much played that tournament like people expected Columbia to before it began, amazing stuff.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Neeskens as the deepest midfielder in a two man central midfield?

@Arbitrium

Why are you playing Neeskens in a position he barely played in 74? Isn’t that against the whole point of this draft? I'm an angry, bitter man

 

[Enigma_87]

Neeskens as the deepest midfielder in a two man central midfield?

@Arbitrium

Why are you playing Neeskens in a position he barely played in 74? Isn’t that against the whole point of this draft? I'm an angry, bitter man

Neeskens was pretty much box to box that WC. He often covered for Suurbier who was really an attacking full back often caught up the pitch and out of position.

Edit: ah, just saw the white text, what is that about?

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Neeskens as the deepest midfielder in a two man central midfield?

@Arbitrium

Why are you playing Neeskens in a position he barely played in 74? Isn’t that against the whole point of this draft? I'm an angry, bitter man

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

@crappycraperson

I like the match up but would have obviously have liked to avoid your team. I think the game is set up for the stars to shine on both sides.

Out of interest (and if you have the time) id love to know more about Bonieks role. I considered picking him early to take the role I have Hagi playing, but everything I read had him more centrally and some even said he played as a striker that tournament. Obviously, he CAN play the role but at that World Cup, where did he actually play as I can’t pin it down.

This is my first thought on Hagi.

Hagi played in a free role through the center the whole tournament. While he would pop up on the left flank during a match he would also pop up on the right flank and also drop deep centrally to bring up the ball.
While Hagi can play on the left flank of a 4231 it was definitely not the role he was brilliant in 1994

 

[harms]

I also think crappy would have been better with an out and out left winger (someone like dzajic) which would have gotten even more out of Kocsis.

No point in having a Dzajic on the left when you have Garrincha on the right. When you have Garrincha, you give the ball to him, end of — and Boniek's spatial awareness and incisive off the ball movement will be more productive for the team than the skills of a more orthodox winger in this situation

 

[crappycraperson]

This is my first thought on Hagi.

Hagi played in a free role through the center the whole tournament. While he would pop up on the left flank during a match he would also pop up on the right flank and also drop deep centrally to bring up the ball.
While Hagi can play on the left flank of a 4231 it was definitely not the role he was brilliant in 1994

Thanks for putting it better than I can. It is also odd how he thinks Boniek out wide is more of a problem than Hagi out wide.

What's even more odd is that, this is the side where Garrincha will be. I really can't see Lizrazu doing any attacking this match, support from Pasarella or not.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Neeskens was pretty much box to box that WC. He often covered for Suurbier who was really an attacking full back often caught up the pitch and out of position.

Edit: ah, just saw the white text, what is that about?

Arbitrium savaged our decision to play Thuram at RCB and I'm now behaving like a petulant child as we're getting viciously rogered in our match and I'm annoyed about it

 

[Deleted member 101472]

This is my first thought on Hagi.

Hagi played in a free role through the center the whole tournament. While he would pop up on the left flank during a match he would also pop up on the right flank and also drop deep centrally to bring up the ball.
While Hagi can play on the left flank of a 4231 it was definitely not the role he was brilliant in 1994

As seen with his goal v Colombia, he was happy to make his way out there. He had a cracking assist v Argentina from the right wing, but that’s kind of the point of having Hagi And Figo because they both hovered over the pitch in their tournaments, and have all the qualities of number 10s, which is what Pele has around him at his peak in 1970, and obviously this team is built around him.

Given the constraints I put on myself in the hope I would land Maradona or Pele, it’s not the worst remake. All players can play like a 10 when required and are lethal shooters (Figo less so in 2006)

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Thanks for putting it better than I can. It is also odd how he thinks Boniek out wide is more of a problem than Hagi out wide.

What's even more odd is that, this is the side where Garrincha will be. I really can't see Lizrazu doing any attacking this match, support from Pasarella or not.

At no point in my write up have I said Hagi will stay out left. It’s even in his player description that he starts on the left and the second sentence of my instructions “the front 4 will be fluid”

 

[crappycraperson]

I think my attack is great here. It is probably the first time I got the team as I wanted it.

- In the past criticism of teams with Garrincha is that they have others player who are more likely to carry the ball than Mane. That is not the case here at all. He can be the primary ball carrier for my team. Boniek pretty much excelled in a role to be a supporting forward to likes of Platini and Rossi. He can play similar sort of role here with Kocsis as a proper 9.

- The midfield three frees up Didi to influence the game more all over the pitch. He would be participant in the battle with Pele in his own half and also jive with the front 3 in attack.

 

[crappycraperson]

At no point in my write up have I said Hagi will stay out left. It’s even in his player description that he starts on the left and the second sentence of my instructions “the front 4 will be fluid”

I am fine with all that. I just have issues with assrtion of Hagi troubling Vogts in anyway. The latter took on Cryuff in 74 final and even if his job on him can be overstated now, he was by no means rogered by Cryuff too. Vogts is not even a Dargan like winger to give him a run around. Any impact Hagi or Lizrazu can muster up on the left is not a big job for Vogts to handle.