Absolutely agree. It's a complete non story.
We actually don't owe £258 million in transfer fees
- Thread starter wolvored
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Well I am prepared to have got it wrong, because, it's, like, quite small writing, and everything.
We just have to set aside funds in the event of us meeting various other payments linked to previous purchases...ie their old club gets x amount if we win the champions league etc.
So if we end up paying £258m then we have won every trophy possible.
I think, as fans, we would not be worried about the cash flow implications of this as we would be too busy watching Herrera drinking some champagne from the Champions league trophy.
So if we end up paying £258m then we have won every trophy possible.
I think, as fans, we would not be worried about the cash flow implications of this as we would be too busy watching Herrera drinking some champagne from the Champions league trophy.
Like most academics in this field, there's a reason they're stuck in a university and not out working for Goldmans..... they dont get it in practice.
As a lawyer, the best lecturers at uni were always those that were still practising. Not Doctorates.
It’s a pile of utter nonsense posted by a nobody
Quick, call Dog the Bounty Hunter for Ed.
As fans we should only be concerned about the players who wear the shirt and the manager who picks the team.
The financial and behind the scenes stuff is of no concern to us as it's not our money. We place our trust in the financial side of the club being in order in 2019.
Papers and pundits stir up shit to get hits and sell papers, leeches the lot of them.
The financial and behind the scenes stuff is of no concern to us as it's not our money. We place our trust in the financial side of the club being in order in 2019.
Papers and pundits stir up shit to get hits and sell papers, leeches the lot of them.
I believe this story is bullshit. First of all players fee are being amortised, so purchase made by LVG and Moyes would not exist in our book, except those promise to pay you an extra 5m if Martial is nominated for Ballon kind of payment. So fees under questions should mostly be deal made under Mourinho. Pogba, Matic, Bailey, Lindelof, Fred, Dalot, Grant. While Sanchez is FREE from a fee perspective. Total no. might have added up to 258m, but a) fee should be paid in total on day 1, residual sum should only be a small fraction of the total b) Pogba fee should also be amortised to a small fraction.
When you talk about OWE fee, I think should be much less than 100m.
When you talk about OWE fee, I think should be much less than 100m.
I’m a bit confused by all the denial in this thread. All the guy at Liverpool Uni has done is extract figures directly from Manchester United’s official published accounts.
It just took a couple of clicks, using the link kindly posted by “48 hours” earlier in this thread, to check the latest figures for myself.
Upon glancing through the 2018 Annual Report, page 63 discloses that “Purchase obligations” total £354 million; of this sum, £259 million is due to be paid in 2019, another £100 million is due between 2020 and 2022 and a few million are due thereafter. [I appreciate that the figures don't quite add up to the total, but it's due to small inter-company balances and accounting consolidation adjustments].
Note 4 to the table that includes these figures explains that: “Purchase obligations include current and non-current obligations related to the acquisition of registrations, purchase order commitments and capital commitments. Purchase obligations do not include contingent transfer fees of £66.4 million which are potentially payable by us if certain specific performance conditions are met”.
In summary, we owe £354 million in total, plus could possibly be on the line to pay an additional £66 million if we meet performance conditions (and I assume we are not even close, sadly).
It just took a couple of clicks, using the link kindly posted by “48 hours” earlier in this thread, to check the latest figures for myself.
Upon glancing through the 2018 Annual Report, page 63 discloses that “Purchase obligations” total £354 million; of this sum, £259 million is due to be paid in 2019, another £100 million is due between 2020 and 2022 and a few million are due thereafter. [I appreciate that the figures don't quite add up to the total, but it's due to small inter-company balances and accounting consolidation adjustments].
Note 4 to the table that includes these figures explains that: “Purchase obligations include current and non-current obligations related to the acquisition of registrations, purchase order commitments and capital commitments. Purchase obligations do not include contingent transfer fees of £66.4 million which are potentially payable by us if certain specific performance conditions are met”.
In summary, we owe £354 million in total, plus could possibly be on the line to pay an additional £66 million if we meet performance conditions (and I assume we are not even close, sadly).
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Well thanks to the successful propaganda job andersred and MUST pulled from 2005 onwards we're the only sporting institution in the world who has a large section of their own fanbase desperate for their club to be in financial trouble.
Oh noes.. Guess we'll have to sell Pogba, Martial an De Gea now.
Whilst I absolutely agree with you that the much of the football world, even our own fans, seem to relish any negative financial news about United, in the case of the latest Daily Express revelations, the figures are correct.
However, the reporting style is sensationalist drivel. It is not unusual for a football club, or any company with a balance sheet as large as United's, to use this level of financial leverage. Indeed we would be daft not to do so if our transaction counter-parties let us get away with it.
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So do we or don't we owe it??
We do, and more. But it's not a big problem.
Like the wise man said - it is just £258 milllion, lads!
The way that tweet has been phrased seems to think that we won't have money due to this 258m paid in 2019. The reality is that all deals are structured like this and hence it's not a big deal. Except that of Ronaldo, which was 80m straight.
I took a gander at the latest unaudited financial report and this is what I found:
The trade payables as of Sep'18 are - 141,068,000
Other Payables - 4,967,000
Accrued expenses - 60,401,000
Total - 230,488,000 (including social security & Other taxes)
Of this 185,028,000 is the current trade and payables.
For the rest of the amount this was a footnote:
I don't know how to read these fully, but as per my understanding the payable in this financial year is 129,814,000 - 43,367,000 = 86,447,000
*All the above figures are in £.
Another thing I found which I didn't know earlier is that we have a lot of debt on the books still. For some reason I thought it was much lesser. We have $425m (outstanding principle) of senior secured notes which are payable by June 2027 & an additional secured loan with an outstanding principle of $225m payable by June 2025.
I don't with those amounts outstanding how much we can put in capital improvements at the club. Is that the reason there has been no move on the stadium expansion?
The trade payables as of Sep'18 are - 141,068,000
Other Payables - 4,967,000
Accrued expenses - 60,401,000
Total - 230,488,000 (including social security & Other taxes)
Of this 185,028,000 is the current trade and payables.
For the rest of the amount this was a footnote:
The figures the tweet is getting is from a previous financial report, I think.
I don't know how to read these fully, but as per my understanding the payable in this financial year is 129,814,000 - 43,367,000 = 86,447,000
*All the above figures are in £.
Another thing I found which I didn't know earlier is that we have a lot of debt on the books still. For some reason I thought it was much lesser. We have $425m (outstanding principle) of senior secured notes which are payable by June 2027 & an additional secured loan with an outstanding principle of $225m payable by June 2025.
I don't with those amounts outstanding how much we can put in capital improvements at the club. Is that the reason there has been no move on the stadium expansion?
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This. Nothing to see here.
If the report was to have any truth in it, then we surely aren’t the only club that are still paying off big transfer fees? Other clubs such as City, PSG etc have spent even more astronomical amounts than ourselves and will no doubt be in a similar position. Very rarely will clubs sign players with the money up front straightaway as majority of the deals will have been agreed in instalments?
For example - we signed Romelu Lukaku from Everton for a total of £90M with £75M initial plus £15M in add-ons. The Anthony Martial and Paul Pogba transfer fees will probably be similar.
For example - we signed Romelu Lukaku from Everton for a total of £90M with £75M initial plus £15M in add-ons. The Anthony Martial and Paul Pogba transfer fees will probably be similar.
A company structures payments this way to better match the timing of cash coming in and going out. That's literally all it is. If you pay huge lump sums instead, and aren't financed by a sugar daddy or have equally large sales, you then need to consider short term financing etc. It gets costly and complicated. So you create a known payment stream instead.
Citeh wouldnt do it because they call Abu Dhabi any time they need a pile of cash and then manipulate their books accordingly.
Citeh wouldnt do it because they call Abu Dhabi any time they need a pile of cash and then manipulate their books accordingly.
Pretty much all transfer fees, agent fees a d signing fees are amortized usually over the length of the contract.
So pretty much all clubs "owe millions". I'd assume the likes of City's are around 500m or so getting given there spending over the last 5 years.
So pretty much all clubs "owe millions". I'd assume the likes of City's are around 500m or so getting given there spending over the last 5 years.
So are you saying that officially Utd have debts of $650,000,000.00 that have to be paid back within the next 6 years?
The $225m loan is payable by June 2025 & the notes are due to to paid in June 2027.
However, I don't think the Glazers will be paying them to make the club debt free. They'll take another loan at the prevailing interest rates at the time to pay the current loan and will likely issue more IOU's/debt before June 2027 to pay the secured notes.
The likely way these will get off the books is if someone buys us outright.
All clubs owe transfer fees spread into multiple years. We have spend a lot lately, hardly a surprise or let along making a news out of it. This is how transfers basically works..
Woody got 99 problems, but money ain't one of them.
It's not at all confusing, if you drain your cash reserves you don't have them anymore, so .... dont and unless I get a >2% early settlement discount, I'm spreading payment or taking as long as allowed because it gives me the maximum possible time to reap the rewards of my purchase.
Think the reason we did not spend more in the summer was because paying debt and of course Glazers took out more money to fill their pockets.
Source?
There's nothing wrong with the tweet, you weirdos. We DID have to pay 150mn odd for the staggered fee payments in this financial year. We seem to have paid off most of this as evidenced by the footnote that @ErranMorad posted. @Rado_N who I th8nk is an accountant will say the same.
Whether it impacted/ will impact our transfer dealings is up for debate. It shouldn't considering we have paid off half these obligations.
Whether it impacted/ will impact our transfer dealings is up for debate. It shouldn't considering we have paid off half these obligations.
Bloody Bielsa. He gets everywhere.
I think the reason we didn't spend was because the board was reluctant to back Jose in the market. Our Loan repayments are substantially lower then they were 10 years ago, when we hardly ever spent.
Glazer man bad.
We don't owe it in one go but we owe it over coming seasons, that's how accounting works, you amortise your assets, you don't buy them upfront like you're shopping at a store. It's perfectly normal and done by all businesses, every PL club will have something similar, maybe even more at somewhere like City. We only actually owe something like £86m over the course of this season.
Yep, and considering that we won't get the money upfront (but we'll get over a period of a few years), essentially we would still owe the majority of the money we owe now.Oh noes.. Guess we'll have to sell Pogba, Martial an De Gea now.
In other words, we are fecked for good. Sack Fergie, sell Giggs, feck Glazers!
What source? i said that i think.
Loan repayments,transfer fee instalments, glazer taking out money. Lots of money gone right there.
If the board did not back Jose, why did we buy Fred/Dalot? i think we ran out of money.
That's bollocks. If you love the club you want to know that it's in good shape both on and off the pitch. Nobody wants their club to 'do a Leeds'.
You don't have to believe everything you read - just the stuff from reasonable sources.
For 258,000,000.00We desperately need to sell Fellaini
I agree that a lot of money has been wasted.
In part they did but he asked for a Centre half and the board didn't get him one, we haven't run out of money.
Either you back a manager or not, you do not back 50%. So there could be another reason also moneywise.
There was murmurings that the club was happy to buy an elite level centre back (Varane) upwards of £100m but the targets that Jose put forward weren't of that level (Alderweireld and Maguire).