AlexUTD
Full Member
Makes zero sense.There was murmurings that the club was happy to buy an elite level centre back (Varane) upwards of £100m but the targets that Jose put forward weren't of that level (Alderweireld and Maguire).
Makes zero sense.There was murmurings that the club was happy to buy an elite level centre back (Varane) upwards of £100m but the targets that Jose put forward weren't of that level (Alderweireld and Maguire).
Of course it does.Makes zero sense.
That is patently not true. It was discussed to death while Mourinho was here that no manager is ever always backed 100%.Either you back a manager or not, you do not back 50%. So there could be another reason also moneywise.
That is what i am trying to say, Glazers hold back money cause of debt etc.That is patently not true. It was discussed to death while Mourinho was here that no manager is ever always backed 100%.
Good thing we dont have a DoF, or we would be making shrewd signings instead.Of course it does.
If i had a 2004 ford focus 1.6 with 80k on the clock and FSH and i wanted a new car, why would i go out and spend 6k on another 2004 1.6 ford focus with 80k on the clock and FSH, when i go and spend 10k on a brand new ford focus ST3?
Or in other words, the club didnt think spending 30 to 40 million each on those two would improve us at at all, but $100 million on Varane would.
No they hold back because at some point a manager has to work with what he has and not constantly demand new toys, not because the money isn’t there. The club were well within their right to not spend another 150 million on Mourinho when he wasn’t making proper use of the players he already had.That is what i am trying to say, Glazers hold back money cause of debt etc.
if you think that the manager always get what he wants then you're wrong. Even SAF had the board blocking some of the transfers he wanted. He just got on with his job and kept winning.Either you back a manager or not, you do not back 50%. So there could be another reason also moneywise.
Also from the annual report,In addition, transfer windows for acquiring and disposing of registrations occur in January and the summer. During these periods, we may require additional cash to meet our acquisition needs for new players and we may generate additional cash through the sale of existing registrations. Depending on the terms of the agreement, transfer fees may be paid or received by us in multiple installments, resulting in deferred cash paid or received. Although we have not historically drawn on our revolving facility during the summer transfer window, if we seek to acquire players with values substantially in excess of the values of players we seek to sell, we may be required to draw on our revolving facility to meet our cash needs.
Acquisition and disposal of registrations also affects our trade receivables and payables, which affects our overall working capital. Our trade receivables include accrued revenue from sponsors as well as transfer fees receivable from other football clubs, whereas our trade payables include transfer fees and other associated costs in relation to the acquisition of registrations.
Trade payable and receivables do not just refer to transfer fees.From our annual financial report itself:
Also from the annual report,
Trade Payable, 2018: £266,316,000
Trade Receivable, 2018: £133,505,000
Means others also owe us money.
Source: https://ir.manutd.com/~/media/Files/M/Manutd-IR/documents/2018-mu-plc-form-20-f.pdf
Eerily, almost exactly 50%. 367,000 more.From our annual financial report itself:
Also from the annual report,
Trade Payable, 2018: £266,316,000
Trade Receivable, 2018: £133,505,000
Means others also owe us money.
Source: https://ir.manutd.com/~/media/Files/M/Manutd-IR/documents/2018-mu-plc-form-20-f.pdf
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But although United did owe a huge sum at the end of last season, things have now changed.
In their latest accounts, for the first quarter of the new financial year, that transfer debt had been reduced to £129m.
United were also owed £26m from other clubs in September, meaning a net transfer debt of £103m.
Given United’s revenues in the three months to September were £135m, a figure likely to be matched or even exceeded in the second quarter of the year, the club are insistent that Ole Gunnar Solskjaer will not be forced to sell in order to buy any players in the next fortnight.
Papers always sensationalize the most mundane things about our club.Tweet
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Just to be an accounting geek...money you owe has no baring on tax from a cash perspectiveNot much wrong with this at all. Of course you don´t pay the sum right away it has all to do with cash flow. When enough flow is available it isn´t a problem.
When Utd stop generating so much money I will start to worry but now this isn´t even a thing. All normal football clubs (not including Chelsea, PSG and City) will be dealing this way.
What they are doing is leveraging future payments, while the club generates 600 m/year or something this won´t be a problem.
Money that you owe is even deductible from profits so you need to pay less tax so it´s not all bad really.
But I feel the club is in a tight spot really, we cannot afford not to spend, we really need to be competitive and stay relevant to get top cash flow long term so it really is a bit of catch 22.
The real story here is £196m in player sales....how have we achieved that....! Not bad considering we seem to give most players away for chub change...or so the media would have you believe.Papers always sensationalize the most mundane things about our club.
Headline: CLUB AMORTIZES ASSET PURCHASE IN STANDARD ACCOUNTING MOVE
Doesn't quite read the same.
No they hold back because at some point a manager has to work with what he has and not constantly demand new toys, not because the money isn’t there. The club were well within their right to not spend another 150 million on Mourinho when he wasn’t making proper use of the players he already had.
So you KNOW that we did not use more money in the summer on a CB, a position we badly need a leader and a class player because the club had the funds but did want to spend? Would love to see that proof since you are so sure of this.if you think that the manager always get what he wants then you're wrong. Even SAF had the board blocking some of the transfers he wanted. He just got on with his job and kept winning.
Amortization cannot show up in payables. You're confusing the two. You amortize assets not liabilities.Papers always sensationalize the most mundane things about our club.
Headline: CLUB AMORTIZES ASSET PURCHASE IN STANDARD ACCOUNTING MOVE
Doesn't quite read the same.
I am referring to long before the Glazers, specifically Gabriel Batistuta and Marcelo Salas. Both were SAF's targets, both made far more sense then some 29 year old CB whose being rated 60m+ when the summer after he would be worth 25m and both were shot down by the board. SAF was occasionally FORCED to sell first team players too. He did it with Stam for example and that was confirmed by the player in person. Which is, of course, regrettable but normal. Business has ups and downs and its up to its employees to get on with it. That's why the club pay their managers handsomely. But there again SAF was truly special not some cry baby who needed to buy success.So you KNOW that we did not use more money in the summer on a CB, a position we badly need a leader and a class player because the club had the funds but did want to spend? Would love to see that proof since you are so sure of this.
SAF is a legendary coach who can make diamonds out of charcoal. "no value in market" was because the Glazers had to pay down some of the high intrest and debt the first years and thanks to SAF the owners got away with it and we won. (the squad was full of winners also).
Good thing I'm not an accountant then.Amortization cannot show up in payables. You're confusing the two. You amortize assets not liabilities.
Good post. Comparison with City doesn't necessarily say too much because they could have bought players outright. Like our report said, "if we seek to acquire players with values substantially in excess of the values of players we seek to sell, we may be required to draw on our revolving facility to meet our cash needs."Trade payable and receivables do not just refer to transfer fees.
At note 23 (page F-43), the amount payable due to transfer fees is £258.3m. At note 19 (page F-40), the amount receivable due to transfer fees is £29.2m, so the net amount is £229.1m. In addition, there are conditional payments due of £66.4m (at page 63).
At the end of the previous season (2017), the equivalent numbers were £179.1m and £46.3m, for a net amount of £142.8m. The net position has worsened by £86.3m in one season.
To give a comparison, I checked the Man City accounts for the same period (to the extent you trust them). At notes 15 and 16, the amount payable due to transfer fees is £140.6m. At note 14, the amount due due to transfer fees is £80.1m, so the net amount is £80.5m. In addition, there are conditional payments due of £158.9m (at note 22).
Woody already briefed the media on this after the close of the window arguing he did not agree with Jose's targets, suggesting he'd rather pay £100 million for the likes of Varane than an inflated fee for the likes of Maguire. This lines up perfectly with his tedious Galactico-lite transfer strategy to be honest but clearly you're not going to accept this because of how fixated you are on this "we're broke" narrative. We've been pissing away money like it's going out of fashion for half a decade now and it's still not enough apparently.So you KNOW that we did not use more money in the summer on a CB, a position we badly need a leader and a class player because the club had the funds but did want to spend? Would love to see that proof since you are so sure of this.
No manager gets 100% of what they want. Fergie missed out on plenty of players over the years. The club will, and rightfully so, do an analysis on the player and decide how much they are willing to pay. If the selling club isn't willing to accept that there isn't much we can do about it unless we are happy to waste money spending absolutely massively over-the-odds. And once we do that, selling clubs know you will do that and will hike the prices up even more. It happened at the beginning of this season. It happened five years ago. It happened 10 and 20 years ago.Either you back a manager or not, you do not back 50%. So there could be another reason also moneywise.
I agree with you and understand why the club would be reluctant to use more money after bad buys, but then they should sack the manager if they wont back him in my eyes.I am referring to long before the Glazers, specifically Gabriel Batistuta and Marcelo Salas. Both were SAF's targets, both made far more sense then some 29 year old CB whose being rated 60m+ when the summer after he would be worth 25m and both were shot down by the board. SAF was occasionally FORCED to sell first team players too. He did it with Stam for example and that was confirmed by the player in person. Which is, of course, regrettable but normal. Business has ups and downs and its up to its employees to get on with it. That's why the club pay their managers handsomely. But there again SAF was truly special not some cry baby who needed to buy success.
Mou was given 60m to sort CB out and we were back to square one. He was given 180m to sort CM out and we were back to square one too as Pogba was on his way out, Matic performances were nosediving and he didn't even gave 50m rated Fred a sniff of first football. So many millions were thrown in the bin from Bailly to Mkhitaryan, from Sanchez to Pogba (great talent but badly utilised by Mou) right to Fred. Meanwhile we had many top players whom 'for some reason' weren't signing new contracts. DDG and Martial to mention a few. The only players who seem to be happy with Mou as manager were the Belgian dumb duo and thank god he wasn't allowed to buy Perisic and nainggolan because they are both having a horrific season this year. So seriously I can't blame the club for not trusting him with money. He would have wasted it
Well the club should hire a DoF who understands football. Who can identify the right players for the club. Feels like the club has used the scattergun approach the last years when it comes to buying players and hiring managers, no decent research just get someone by their reputation.Woody already briefed the media on this after the close of the window arguing he did not agree with Jose's targets, suggesting he'd rather pay £100 million for the likes of Varane than an inflated fee for the likes of Maguire. This lines up perfectly with his tedious Galactico-lite transfer strategy to be honest but clearly you're not going to accept this because of how fixated you are on this "we're broke" narrative. We've been pissing away money like it's going out of fashion for half a decade now and it's still not enough apparently.
Mourinho was stupid, how can you cry about the team is not good enough in the summer and go into the season and expect the team to be "motivated".No manager gets 100% of what they want. Fergie missed out on plenty of players over the years. The club will, and rightfully so, do an analysis on the player and decide how much they are willing to pay. If the selling club isn't willing to accept that there isn't much we can do about it unless we are happy to waste money spending absolutely massively over-the-odds. And once we do that, selling clubs know you will do that and will hike the prices up even more. It happened at the beginning of this season. It happened five years ago. It happened 10 and 20 years ago.
The difference is that Fergie got on with it and either made do with what he had or had other options that the club were able to buy.
You must be relatively young or have a short memory because Fergie complained about our transfer activity all the time under the plc, so much so that Kenyon would sometimes publicly chastise him, effectively telling him to wind his neck in e.g.I agree with you and understand why the club would be reluctant to use more money after bad buys, but then they should sack the manager if they wont back him in my eyes.
Fergie never complained public, he was smart.
Imagine if Woodward or the Glazers came out with that kind of tripe in todays age? This place would be on fire.Sir Alex Ferguson will not be allowed to expand his squad this summer, even though he believes it is too weak to compete in Europe.
Last month, the Manchester United manager complained that he had only 18 outfield players to choose from, leaving him at a disadvantage compared to the likes of Real Madrid and Juventus. However, despite the club yesterday announcing a 32 per cent increase in profits before player disposals in the six months to 31 January, the chief executive, Peter Kenyon, said he will not sanction any transfers unless the squad size is kept at current levels.
"It is fair to say that if Sir Alex wants to buy someone, he will have to sell someone else," Kenyon said. "You can only field 11 players at one time and we have 24 in our squad, which, when it is supplemented with some of our younger players, we feel is the right number to get through 70-plus games a year."
Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...on-told-to-sell-before-he-can-buy-113315.html
I agree wholeheartedly but that's a structural issue and has nowt to do with this BS narrative that we don't have any money to spend. I guarantee you if we were as broke as you're implying, the last thing we'd be doing is spunking money the way we have been over the past few seasons.Well the club should hire a DoF who understands football. Who can identify the right players for the club. Feels like the club has used the scattergun approach the last years when it comes to buying players and hiring managers, no decent research just get someone by their reputation.
Isn't that just his weekly wage?On top of that we owe about £316m to Sanchez.
The key phrase here is he was smart.I agree with you and understand why the club would be reluctant to use more money after bad buys, but then they should sack the manager if they wont back him in my eyes.
Fergie never complained public, he was smart. Mourinho complained about the team publicly and never took his share of blame, fecking outdated clown in my eyes. Mourinho did not get the best out of the players, Solskjaer at the moment is. I think it would be easier to back a manager when you see the players actually does well under him of course.
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Nah, don't buy into that narrative. "Football journalism", on the other hand, I largely agree with that sentiment. That's why I only really read one or two sources that don't participate in all the football gossip.Journalism today is pathetic. Some random guy posts a tweet and that is news
Man United are always in good shape, the club is a licence to print money and those shrewdy businessmen the Glazers milk it to the full.That's bollocks. If you love the club you want to know that it's in good shape both on and off the pitch. Nobody wants their club to 'do a Leeds'.
You don't have to believe everything you read - just the stuff from reasonable sources.
This is only referring to contingent liabilities. That is, a possible liability but is not likely enough to be included in the actual primary financial statements.I’m not any sort of expert, but scanning through the Manchester United plc Interim report (unaudited) for the three and nine months ended 31 March 2018
https://ir.manutd.com/financial-information/quarterly-reports/2018.aspx
Transfer fees payable
Under the terms of certain contracts with other football clubs in respect of player transfers, additional amounts would be payable by us if certain specific performance conditions are met. We estimate the fair value of any contingent consideration at the date of acquisition based on the probability of conditions being met and monitor this on an ongoing basis. The maximum additional amount that could be payable as of 31 March 2018 is £60.9 million.
I mean it doesn’t have anything to do with amortising your assets. But the rest is correct.We don't owe it in one go but we owe it over coming seasons, that's how accounting works, you amortise your assets, you don't buy them upfront like you're shopping at a store. It's perfectly normal and done by all businesses, every PL club will have something similar, maybe even more at somewhere like City. We only actually owe something like £86m over the course of this season.
Again the fees payable has nothing to do with the amortisation of the asset.Pretty much all transfer fees, agent fees a d signing fees are amortized usually over the length of the contract.
So pretty much all clubs "owe millions". I'd assume the likes of City's are around 500m or so getting given there spending over the last 5 years.
Very high level summary of accounting for players in general. Let’s take one made up scenario as an example.Good thing I'm not an accountant then.
I didn't look at the income statement or balance sheet. What is the club doing from an accounting perspective in this case?