We are an awfully coached team

roonster09

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You said we are 2nd xG wise excluding a few matches - did you calculate on your own or how did you come up with the number?
(genuinly interested because I find it pretty tedious to work with fbref to get that sort of data, maybe you have better way)
You can use understat site and use filters.
 

anant

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I answer the other way around...


I understand your point and there is a chance, that in some cases, the managers name might really be not fancy enough. Additionally something new and potential great is always appealing, more so than the thing you know the pros and cons of. So I get your feeling, that the criticism is coming from that sort of direction but maybe it does only way fewer cases than "you" think.
I think, the mood around here would be more relaxed, if not anybody, who is expressing criticism would be met with such a prejudice because for some, they just see things a bit differently than for example you. I highlighted in your sentence the core thing: you decided based on your judgement, that "this is all we can hope for". But this is your personal stance, an absolutely valid one but a subjective opinion not really having more substance than the stance of somebody who acknowledges the good to great results but isn't satisfied about us seeing this brand of football more often than not.



:)
I know, why you did it, but United has a deeper squad than most other teams so this "fair" is always somewhat faulty. Plus I mean it isn't like we played the big teams there so I understand your thinking but for me, it is a bit overstated. To be honest I see no huge issues with the bad start, it is what it is, our preseason wasn't a good one but we overcame it. Well done. Therefor I see no reason to not go with all results of the season. They of the season are very good - even with the first ones. It is the performances overall - not just at the start. And they don't change, even if you take the first few matches away. What is your take on the numbers I presented xG wise, I asked if it rings a bell - does it for you or do you think, that's fine and part of the process (this is no trick question)?

You said we are 2nd xG wise excluding a few matches - did you calculate on your own or how did you come up with the number?
(genuinly interested because I find it pretty tedious to work with fbref to get that sort of data, maybe you have better way)

Nice conversation by the way
A part of your post is subjective or something I agree with, so will ignore that piece.

I'll expand on what I meant when I said" This is all we can hope for" - A team that has been playing 2 weeks every GW, and isn't really the deepest bar a couple of positions can't be expected to keep up the level of quality week in week out. I mean, look at the sides that have been playing in Europe and had even a decentish run in both cup competitions - That'd be only us and City? Leicester crashed out of EL when they had fixture congestion, Chelsea's form was poor early in the season despite them having deeper depth and more favourable draws, Spurs burnt out now when they were tasked with competing on all 4 fronts, Pool have injury issues, Arsenal - the lesser said the better.

I agree the play can be more convincing, but compared to our rivals, I'd say it's still better than most bar a couple of sides. I'd love us to see us thrash teams left, right and centre, but we're getting good number of goals on a weekly basis when our forwards have been extremely poor.

And for the last bit, you can use the date filters on understat. Statsbomb model is better, but over a larger number of games, their xG's match quite closely
 

Foxbatt

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It's opinion as in everything. In my opinion in a good coached side Bruno doesn't have to wait for Pogba to arrive into that position. This emphasis the point even RVN was making that when Rio has the ball he knows when and how to move.
In a side that is coached well by the time Bruno gets the ball there should have been players moving into space already that is open. We didn't. It was a good hold up by Bruno and a mishit by Pogba and another piece of individual opportunistic instinct by Greenwood that got us the goal.
 

Chesterlestreet

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From a common sense point of view, the idea that an "awfully coached" team sits 2nd in the table (in what many consider the strongest overall league in the world) with a handful of games to go before the end of the season - seems quite preposterous.

The only scenario in which that might actually be true would involve a team with much better individual quality than what most seem to think we possess (including some of the people who moan incessantly about "patterns of play" - but who also moan incessantly about Ole's supposed recruitment policy whenever that suits them).

It's bollocks, in short. We clearly are not an "awfully coached" team.

Flawed - yes, sure, there's room for improvement, it would be absurd to deny that.

Awful - obviously not. It's silly hyperbole of the "PE teacher" variety.
 

Foxbatt

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From a common sense point of view, the idea that an "awfully coached" team sits 2nd in the table (in what many consider the strongest overall league in the world) with a handful of games to go before the end of the season - seems quite preposterous.

The only scenario in which that might actually be true would involve a team with much better individual quality than what most seem to think we possess (including some of the people who moan incessantly about "patterns of play" - but who also moan incessantly about Ole's supposed recruitment policy whenever that suits them).

It's bollocks, in short. We clearly are not an "awfully coached" team.

Flawed - yes, sure, there's room for improvement, it would be absurd to deny that.

Awful - obviously not. It's silly hyperbole of the "PE teacher" variety.
Agree with you about the awful. Not a very well coached is a better word.
 

Ranchero

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I cant disagree that our coaching isn't the best. There are big tactical flaws especially in our defensive organisation when we are prone to ball watching. My biggest tactical beef is defending set pieces - corners and free kicks - where we put EVERYONE in the penalty box so there is never an outball if we clear our lines. And often we make daft decisons on who marks who - putting a small player in a taller one. Our setup leaves us open to shots from the edge of the area...or the ball being put right back into the danger zone.

There are real flaws that cost us. Despite that we are second.
 

ivaldo

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What about our first goal? Coaching out just pure luck?
It was just multiple individual moments of brilliance that just happened to be strung together.
 

united_99

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To keep your cool, to not panic and keep winning after going behind (even after referees’ mistakes) is a sign of a team which knows what they are doing and what they need to do in the 2nd half to win. This is a priceless characteristic to have and very well done to whoever external coaches we have hired for half time speeches.
 

Foxbatt

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Today we got everything right. We have not played like this before. We have counter attacked before. We didn't today. We pushed players forward. The three goals we scored we had at least 5 players in forward positions. AWB was pushing forward. So was Fred. We should play like this always.
 

IncyWincySpider

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Well we know he has at least one coaching method now because he told us about it - he doesn't feed them if they roll around on the floor too much.
 

ivaldo

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That first goal was just another case of multiple pieces of individualism strung together in a sequence. It keeps happening.
 

el3mel

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The first and 3rd goals were really lovely plays similar to our goals against Spurs. I like this, more of this please.
 

mikel

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Still plenty of room to improve but I think the last few games have been better from Ole. I've been pretty critical but team set-up with Martial out seems pretty good and the substitutions also. Signs of life. They still start too slow and set pieces are still an adventure but Ole seems to be starting to find another level.
 

GregtheRed_

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The first and 3rd goals were really lovely plays similar to our goals against Spurs. I like this, more of this please.
We’ve scored team goals like this a bit under Solskjaer, they’ve just been followed up the next week with dross which masks over it.

Feel like we’re seeing more consistency and our coaching is starting to show what we are actually capable of. Some of the team football we’ve played has been beautiful to watch. We really are not far off.
 

bond19821982

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Getting better. Probably the best I have seen us play under Ole. Keep going like this and think we can finally agree, something is being cooked.
 

Buchan

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In the attacking phases today, we looked good and even excellent at times. However, there are huge question marks about our ability to defend set-pieces and we continually concede the same goals and chances every single week due to our bizarre obsession with placing our most aerially-dominant players inside our own six-yard box whilst our vertically-challenged players pick up the opposition’s biggest threats. It’s actually bonkers stuff yet we continue to persevere with it.

How anybody can look at that aspect of our game and think we are a well-coached side is absolutely beyond me. A major overhaul is needed in this area of our game, IMO.
 

OrcaFat

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In the attacking phases today, we looked good and even excellent at times. However, there are huge question marks about our ability to defend set-pieces and we continually concede the same goals and chances every single week due to our bizarre obsession with placing our most aerially-dominant players inside our own six-yard box whilst our vertically-challenged players pick up the opposition’s biggest threats. It’s actually bonkers stuff yet we continue to persevere with it.

How anybody can look at that aspect of our game and think we are a well-coached side is absolutely beyond me. A major overhaul is needed in this area of our game, IMO.
Only three teams in the division have conceded fewer goals than us.

Burnley are good in the air, it’s no shame to concede a goal against them. Harry could have been stronger (although the lad had his forearm on Harry’s shoulder).

I’m not against improvement but it’s not a massive coaching issue. The bigger problem is CM going awol but that looks more like individual discipline than coaching.
 

Foxbatt

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I have seen Carl Anka of The Athletic saying that he asked Ole about the space and lack of movement and he said that he doesn't do like to play like space and that sort of thing. To Carl it was puzzling as to why he thought he said that. He doesn't know if Ole thinks he does not have the kind of players to play like that or simply he does not believe in playing like that.