Right first off stick the phrase we go again in the bin, in regards to those defeats suffered under Fergie I was always confident we had the mentality to come back from it and worth remembering the league wasn't half as competitive back then either because teams bricked it against us very often. Oh yeah and finally we were never serious challengers for the league so last night has hopefully made the ones who believed that brought crashing back to earth.
We were a ticking time bomb
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We thrashed Leeds not long ago.
That sounds to me like ifs and buts.
What good is it having rival fans with fans like ours. 1 off off top spot and picking holes. 5 months ago you'd have been lucky to find anyone on here who gave us a prayer of the title anyway.
Our fans are beyond pathetic. Moan moan moan moan.
This argument isn’t really applicable here. Back then, United were the best team and played the best football, on crap days they managed to grind out results at the end and other fans were just «oh boy, here we go again». Now we’re playing pretty unstructured and scrappy, but have managed to win a lot of games against lesser teams due to individual brilliance. In fact, most of these grinded wins are just...the normal way for United to win games under OGS. Contiunously going behind and needing a goal at the back to get going, but still winning many games, speaks volumes for shit game plans and basically just meaning we have better players than most other teams.
If you look at games by shots, chances, possession, territorial dominance - Liverpool were the better team against Burnley, Southampton, Newcastle, West Brom recently. How have they managed to fail to win any of this run of 4 games in which they "deserved to win"? Because they didn't really play well in any of them. There's a correlation between performance and results, the bigger the gap in chances created and dominance between you and the opposition the higher the chance you win the game. When every game is close it's not sustainable to keep winning and you're leaving yourself open to a spell of negative variance. Thankfully we've been on the good side of the variance recently and Liverpool have been on the bad side.
True and plain to see.
Could not have summed it up any better myself and wish @Rood could see this too but he is more of an expected xg guy
The OP here is 'glass half empty' nonsense - sure we were crap yesterday but we have been playing very well recently
I mean its just as valid to say that Bailly could have been fit yesterday and would have blocked the shot that Tuanzebe hesistated on
But the difference is that I dont actually expect us to win the league, even being 2nd at the moment is ahead of expectations so Im content
but we win and people sound out words of caution that a correction might be round the corner. we win well anyway and they are still saying i told you so. the eye test is sufficient, for games that you win the hard way where the scoreline doesn't tell the whole story there are also games where you win with a flattering scoreline. you can't have it both ways.
our poor gd has a lot to do with how we started the season, people have pointed that out umpteen times.
I agree completely with the OP.
You can call it a blinder, I guess anyone would have had a blinder with how our attackers were playing that night.
Agree completely. People lose their cool too easily around these parts. We're objectively doing much better than I thought we would with our squad and setup.
And we play much better against good teams than bad ones.
As I said earlier, right now we wasn’t expecting the winning trend. It was a bonus. The same if we end above nr.3 in the league. I’m talking about this season and haven’t lowered my expectations in general. Next year we should fight for the title until the end and win one trophy.
The problem now is that many of us has been dragged with our success lately and new expectations have been formed - which probably doesn’t have a solid foundation. We have progressed a lot the last year, but it’s still a lot work left and we expect the progress to continue and not stop.
The future looks very bright. Keep the faith and be positive.
The problem now is that many of us has been dragged with our success lately and new expectations have been formed - which probably doesn’t have a solid foundation. We have progressed a lot the last year, but it’s still a lot work left and we expect the progress to continue and not stop.
The future looks very bright. Keep the faith and be positive.
This isn't a title winning team, but it is a team that no matter the season, should be beating the side bottom of the table with relative ease.
I suppose you saw City's early season form coming too right?
It's been an especially weird season for obvious reasons. I'd expect all the contending teams to drop more points, City and Liverpool included.
I hate how they’re referred to on here as “Sheffield”
Not a phrase friend, a statement of fact. Perhaps I should have said ‘we are contractually obliged by the governing bodies of the competition we are taking part in to fulfill another fixture on Sunday’. Either way it’s going to happen and I hope to see a much improved performance and a positive result.
Whilst I share your concern about the mental fragility of our current (quite young) squad, the whole point of being whooped by the saints in a weaker league back then is that it shouldn’t have happened on paper, but like Sheffield they raised there game, Le Tiss had a worldie and it did happen but didn’t derail the season.
In this years much more competitive league we’ve drawn with run away favourites City and Liverpool, and honestly felt hard done to not to have won them both. We’ve subsequently beaten Liverpool in the cup. We’re not a million miles away here.
As for the title, I certainly don’t expect it this season, but I have hope, because of our results - and whilst that hope is there it’s more fun to believe we can than say we can’t.
Failing to properly organise and structure the defence again has been our downfall so far this season.
Do we even have a defence coach?
Do we even have a defence coach?
We were edging every victory by the skin of our teeth. I know champions need to win ugly sometimes, but that’s supposed to be a couple of games a season, not every single victory. Even super defensive Jose’s Chelsea were convincing in most wins. You’re never going to win, or even challenge for a title, if every single win is an ugly drag. It’s not sustainable.
For me big teams should always look to dominate the game. I don’t think a top sides default philosophy should be counter attack.
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I agree with all this except the idea that our default philosophy is counter attack, I really don't think it is anymore, but it still comfortably remains what we're best at. We need to improve drastically at having possession and being in charge of a game, teams will happily give us the ball and sit back because we're useless at breaking teams down.
Suppose it’s not only a quite young squad. Our startup is among the youngest, if not the youngest in PL. That explain a bit.
It is also important not to forget our mentality is on right track. I’ve seen much more of the fighting spirit and team spirit and how they continue push or work hard despite a goal against or some other struggle.
How is it any different to what we do with any other "United" such as West Ham, Leeds or Newcastle?
What do you want them to be called?
I think it is honestly. We just can’t approach most games with it because most teams sit deep against us, but our intention is absolutely to counter, we saw this in the Sheff U 2nd goal, we were thinking about countering while they had the ball in our box. That’s our favoured philosophy for every game, we do not like keeping the ball, we treat it like a hot potato, pass it on as quickly as possible, we’re very very direct & extremely high tempo, it’s all about countering. Maybe default was the wrong word as we don’t get to play it in every game with teams sitting deep, but it’s absolutely Ole’s favoured way of approaching every game.
It’s a new thing, back in the day it was always “Sheff Utd” & “Sheff Wed” now it seems to be more “Sheffield” & just “Wednesday”
I think it’s the younger fans, who probably don’t even know who Sheffield Wednesday are
I agree, so why do we set up as a counter-attacking team? It's to play to our perceived strengths.
Maybe it's an interim solution while we build a team that can dominate? Or do you think we should dominate with our current players?
No wonder, considering when people were critical after games where we started poorly but still won they were called sad and pathetic for not enjoying results and were told to shut up https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how-could-you-possibly-be-content-with-this.459310/
When is an appropriate time to voice criticism, according to you? When results are good obviously isn't, and when we get a poor result as a consequence of the same things and mistakes we've seen multiple times during the good run, it apparently isn't okay to voice your concern either. So when?
Or is it just a matter of needing to shut up at all times if you’re in any way critical of the team?
You're right, the difference is that there are two teams from Sheffield, so calling one "Sheffield" is a bit odd. I've never had to type their name out before and couldn't be bothered with their full name each time, so defaulted to "Sheffield". But, yeah, "Sheff Utd" works.
I think you are mistaking default philosophy with what it really is - a system that gets the best out of the players. This team will evolve as we add different players.
It's fecking weird, that's what it is. Try saying it out loud and you'll feel stupid.
Calling them Sheffield is perfectly fine in my opinion if we're a bit lazy to write out 'Sheffield United'. They're the only team from Sheffield in the Premier League so everyone knows what Sheffield refers to. Just like we're all happy calling Leeds United 'Leeds' and not giving a feck about Leeds City in the West Yorkshire Premier League.
could it possibly be that Wednesday are not in the conversation (or PL) and therefore irrelevant in context? If they were also in the PL there would be some clarification.
not difficult.
Very good summary, especially first two sentences!
All Sheffield had to do was 'hold their ground' and we were clueless. Chris Wilder had certainly done his homework better than Ole. If ever there was an opportunity to start a proper CF who makes runs in the box, it was on Wednesday night. Just look at the 'heat print' for Sheffield's back 5 it hardly moved all game, there was zero effect in disturbing Jagers and his colleagues.
I still back Ole, but i just cannot help think that if we had Guardiola or Nagglesman, we would be destroying these poorer teams.
Forget about the result against SU. The performance overall was very worrying. But then we were really good against Pool in the FA Cup, so maybe we were just not fired up for SU.
Forget about the result against SU. The performance overall was very worrying. But then we were really good against Pool in the FA Cup, so maybe we were just not fired up for SU.
Arguing my post but then agreeing with it with another poster
Wolves is a good example.
Absolutely!
Last seasons and earlier this season going a goal down was a sure fire loss, now we generally have the belief to come from behind and take all 3 points.
I didn't argue with your post. I asked for clarification from you about your thoughts and then agreed with someone who offered a logical explanation.Arguing my post but then agreeing with it with another poster
It's no coincidence our two worst results this season (Istanbul (A) and Sheffield United (H)) occurred after big results. Seems to me that the team has a complacency issue at times, thinking they are better than they actually are. I don't think that applies to Bruno, but it does apply to several other players.
Either way, it was clear we'd get a blip in the coming weeks, if we can win our next two games then it's not a bad trade ultimately. Just very frustrating.
Well he needs to make sure he doesn't lose his crown next year.
I dont agree with that whole premise - yes we often conceeded but in most matches we deserved the victory in my opinion, I can only think of West Ham and BHA early in the season where we were lucky to win
And we have played some good football along the way too, its not just counter attack and we are obviously not the finished article so will continue to improve
Like I said, I wasnt expecting a title challenge this season anyway so Ole is already ahead of schedule with the evolution of this team in my book
We weren't playing Wednesday and aren't going to be this season. Nobodies going to bother typing the whole name.