Well that will be a weather the storm exercise I imagine. Survive the 40/50 min onslaught and we have half a chance. Saying that Klopp won’t go full hung go at old Trafford, he didn’t last time as he was wary of the counter. But our passing needs to improve immensely to utilise that effectively.
We're in a fight for 2nd
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It happened in 1968
Whether Sanchez, lukaku or martial are better than the aforementioned 3 at Liverpool is irrelevant. The point I was making is more along the lines that some are claiming nobody would make the Liverpool 11 apart from DDG (who would do a better job that mignolet and karius if you let them both play at once). As for VVD being “majestic” so far! I think you are confusing majestic with the word “competent” which I suppose looks majestic in that back line.
9 games to go, 8 points to equal our highest point total in the league after Ferguson. It's not been all rosy, but it certainly isn't that bad.
Interesting, didn't know that. Seems that dreadful record will be easily surpassed.
IMO, United need to finish 2nd. The prestige of the the club matters.
The race is on!Every time I watch one of the 2-6 placed teams' managers give press conferences, they're always very humble and honest about what a challenge making top-4 is this season. I guess that's partly why I don't devolve into panic when I see United haven't secured a top-4 yet -- it's damn hard. There's nothing wrong with a good, old fight.
Come on "Though top 4 is probably within reach" we are 9 points clear of Chelsea who are in free fall, we will make the top 4.
I think the top 4 will finish how it is now and I fancy us to finish 2nd. We have been there pretty much all season and for me are the 2nd best team in this league.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and all that but I think over the last few weeks, the result in the Champs league away, coming back against Chelsea and tonight coming back from two goals down to win you are seeing a lot of fight and character with these players, especially after the stuff in the media with Pogba etc.
Yes we start bloody slow and could be better but I still think that Jose is the right man for the job. This a HUGE club, this ain't Spurs or Liverpool where top 4 is acceptable, you only have to see how much people moan about United being second to see this job is different to every other job in England.
K2K is spot on with this. Have some people really forgotten how bad it was under Moyes and LVG. I enjoy watching United more now...is the football great? NO, do i feel like we are going in the right direction? YES.
I still think we will finish 2nd, get through to the Semis of the FA Cup (at least) get through to the last 8 of the Champs. We are making progress and I think in a year or two we will be all sitting here celebrating winning the league once again.
The Mourinho comments about 2nd being the same as 3rd and 4th worried me, and when I was watching the game tonight I was wondering if they had a psychological impact on the players. Then we came through, showing some nice spirit and I'm chuffed!
9 points on Chelsea with 9 games to go should pretty much mean top 4 is in the bag. I've often thought that when the number of remaining games gets to the same or greater than the points gap that one team really should be finishing ahead of the other and that's where we are now with regards to Chelsea. We do have a couple of very obviously tricky fixtures remaining but we really should be finishing top 4 now in my opinion. With that almost in the bag I'd like us to shoot for 2nd at worst.
I suppose the Champions League comes into the equation and possibly resting players ahead of certain fixtures but I'd love us to fight on all fronts as best we can. Let us fight like a wild west gunslinger or summat!
9 points on Chelsea with 9 games to go should pretty much mean top 4 is in the bag. I've often thought that when the number of remaining games gets to the same or greater than the points gap that one team really should be finishing ahead of the other and that's where we are now with regards to Chelsea. We do have a couple of very obviously tricky fixtures remaining but we really should be finishing top 4 now in my opinion. With that almost in the bag I'd like us to shoot for 2nd at worst.
I suppose the Champions League comes into the equation and possibly resting players ahead of certain fixtures but I'd love us to fight on all fronts as best we can. Let us fight like a wild west gunslinger or summat!
As long as we are top 4 I couldn't care less really.
I'm desperate to beat the filth on Saturday...but don't give a shite about 'finishing above Liverpool' if I'm that honest. Unless they are second or fifth...or eighteenth it holds little consequence. .
There are no ''bragging rights' in that respect for me. I'd like us to get it wrapped up asap so we can play a few younger players find the close of the season in the league. 9 points ahead of Chelsea with 9 games to go. I'd say I'm confident,but we were streets ahead of the Scouse until recently so...who knows.
I'm desperate to beat the filth on Saturday...but don't give a shite about 'finishing above Liverpool' if I'm that honest. Unless they are second or fifth...or eighteenth it holds little consequence. .
There are no ''bragging rights' in that respect for me. I'd like us to get it wrapped up asap so we can play a few younger players find the close of the season in the league. 9 points ahead of Chelsea with 9 games to go. I'd say I'm confident,but we were streets ahead of the Scouse until recently so...who knows.
A successful season IMO (for this season):
1. Finish in Top 4 to have Champions League football next season.
2. Win the FA Cup.
3. Reach the Quarter Finals of the Champions League.
1. Finish in Top 4 to have Champions League football next season.
2. Win the FA Cup.
3. Reach the Quarter Finals of the Champions League.
I wasn't sure but I think he said we fight for first-second.The Mourinho comments about 2nd being the same as 3rd and 4th worried me, and when I was watching the game tonight I was wondering if they had a psychological impact on the players. Then we came through, showing some nice spirit and I'm chuffed!
9 points on Chelsea with 9 games to go should pretty much mean top 4 is in the bag. I've often thought that when the number of remaining games gets to the same or greater than the points gap that one team really should be finishing ahead of the other and that's where we are now with regards to Chelsea. We do have a couple of very obviously tricky fixtures remaining but we really should be finishing top 4 now in my opinion. With that almost in the bag I'd like us to shoot for 2nd at worst.
I suppose the Champions League comes into the equation and possibly resting players ahead of certain fixtures but I'd love us to fight on all fronts as best we can. Let us fight like a wild west gunslinger or summat!
I think the people saying second isn't a trophy don't get it. No one is suggesting there's an accolade that comes with it.
What's important is that we get a functioning unit playing well and winning.
Something we are not doing and haven't done for some time.
It builds towards next season when new players come into a functioning unit.
We need to beat Liverpool. And start playing better.
Can't see us getting anything from City away and we have some other tricky fixtures to come too.
Can't see us getting anything from City away and we have some other tricky fixtures to come too.
True. But finishing behind Liverpool after outspending them, not to mention them losing Coutinho, will probably mean that the issues we have are bigger than what people would like to believe. Its not just a case of City winning because of the oil money.
We will always be missing someone. First we talked about lack of quality in midfield. Then it was the striker. Now it is the RW. After that it will be the LW. Who knows when DDG will feck off to Madrid. Then we will be talking about how Mourinho is missing a top class GK. Our quality of play is dreadful. A new RW is not going to solve that.
Finishing above Liverpool definitely matters as far as Im concerned, especially in the absence of a cup. "Bragging rights" is probably the wrong phrase, because bragging is for the team that wins. But still, finishing above them in the league means we were better than them over the course of the season, which is some comfort. I dont understand this argument that if you dont win your league position is meaningless beyond mere CL qualification. Among SAF's many remarkable achievements, his consistency in getting into the top 2, usually being runner up if we didnt win, is among the most notable, for me. I remember that season we ended up 3rd behind Liverpool, it sucked. Not as badly as being pipped at the post for the actual title, but that doesnt make it meaningless.
A cup would change that, of course. Id rather come 4th and win the FA Cup than 2nd and not.
A cup would change that, of course. Id rather come 4th and win the FA Cup than 2nd and not.
Since the time when we have finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, in the last 4 years. Based on this, we are a team who aspires to be in the top 4.
So, finishing 2nd should now be considered impressive.
I know it hurts, but we have to face facts.
He said that in terms of finance and prestige it was the same, which is correct, but he also said that «personally second is better than third and third is better than fourth» so obviously he wants to finish second.The Mourinho comments about 2nd being the same as 3rd and 4th worried me, and when I was watching the game tonight I was wondering if they had a psychological impact on the players. Then we came through, showing some nice spirit and I'm chuffed!
9 points on Chelsea with 9 games to go should pretty much mean top 4 is in the bag. I've often thought that when the number of remaining games gets to the same or greater than the points gap that one team really should be finishing ahead of the other and that's where we are now with regards to Chelsea. We do have a couple of very obviously tricky fixtures remaining but we really should be finishing top 4 now in my opinion. With that almost in the bag I'd like us to shoot for 2nd at worst.
I suppose the Champions League comes into the equation and possibly resting players ahead of certain fixtures but I'd love us to fight on all fronts as best we can. Let us fight like a wild west gunslinger or summat!
Higher league table finish = more prestige.
Not according to JoMo, and I tend to agree. If you are not winning the league, then the prestige is tied to qualifying for the CL. I would, of course, *like* to finish second.
Finishing 2nd should be one of three goals until the end of the season. We should be favourites to win FA cup, have a good CL run (let's be optimistic and say final) and then finish 2nd above Liverpool. From what I can I see we are always looking for an extra player whether it be LB or RW. I think we should be doing far better with squad we have. City were playing Fabian Delph as a full back during some of the best football they played this season. We need to stop making excuses and the manager needs to make the most of what he has at his disposal & Pogba would want to wake the hell up and realise who his playing for. This is Man Utd son either you show what your about or jump on a plane back to Italy!
I think I know a little bit more about this than JoMo.
In all seriousness tho, I find it a bizarre suggestion. A really odd thing to say.
I’ll be happy finishing second if this team isn’t Mourinho’s “finished product”.
Can't say I agree, to be honest. If you come second, you have lost the league title. There is nothing but a slight "honour" in coming second ahead of third, and that is highly unquantifiable.
In 2015/16 Arsenal finished second only because Spurs collapsed when it became apparent that it was not possible to win the title, and I don't think that 2nd place did too much for Arsenal, nor gave them much prestige to be honest. That's just my view of it, obviously.
Like I said, I would *like* to finish 2nd, especially since Liverpool is the closest team, but it's not be all end all.
Here here, well said.
Most of non-United supporting mates are Liverpool fans, so finishing above them would certainly help in the ultimate 17/18 dick swinging competition, considering neither sides win a cup of course.
Of course we won't give a shit about finishing 2nd place in years to come, but at least it give us some hope (and slagging material) between the end of the season and the start of the new one.
Progress is progress. Nobody should deny that.
Just did the math and Ferguson's average points for his last 5 years/seasons was 86.6. So we're on 62 now with 27 points available (finish on 89 if we won every match). It would be nice to at least reach 80 points (6 wins) this season to bring us back to approaching that level again (heading into next season).
OK but if you strip out the question of CL qualification and leave that to one side, are you honestly suggesting there is no more prestige associated with coming second than with coming 17th? Because that is just a more extreme example of the same principle. Either league position matters or it doesnt, if it doesnt it makes no difference if you are talking about the difference of one or two positions, or 15 positions.
If your contention is there is no more prestige coming second than 17th then nothing I say here will change your mind. But that strikes me as ridiculous.
God knows why all these mid table clubs, who know they wont win the league but are reasonably confident they wont go down either, bother to turn up each week, if their fans couldnt give two shits whether they finish 7th or 17th.
Yes, but you can't do that. I'm not really interested in a hypothetical world where the CL qualification doesn't exist. I'll play along though, just to answer the question - if you take the CL out of the equation then I agree that the final position would carry a bit more weight in terms of prestige, but there is still no prize for coming second! There has to be a prize.
Prize for 1st = League title
Prize for 2nd = Direct qualification to CL
Prize for 3rd = Direct qualification to CL
Prize for 4th = Direct qualification to CL
Prize for 5th = Direct qualification to EL
Prize for 6th = Access to the EL qualifiers
Prize for 7th = Possible EL qualification
Prize for 8th - 17th = feck all / avoid relegation.
The second bolded part:
Because they are chasing a prize. They are either hoping to have a great season and get EL qualification or to stay up (Your Evertons will harbour hopes of getting into the EL while your Huddersfields will hope to stay up) - which is why you will sometimes see times go to shit when they are either safe from relegation/can't mathematically qualify for Europe etc etc.
Fair enough on the second bit but there are a load of teams that for weeks at the end of the season are both "safe" and have no chance of qualifying for Europe. They have to endure weeks of dead rubber fixtures, but they still care because coming 10th is obviously better than coming 15th. A whole load of teams with no prizes to play for try their hardest to win their last game of the season, hoping to achieve their highest possible league finish.
And for the first - Mourinho is the one who started this, he was the one who separated the question of league position into "prestige" and CL qualification spots. By separating it out into those different factors you are inviting people to consider the importance of one factor in the absence of the others. That is why we are having this absurd conversation about prestige.
Agree about the absurd part
That's part of the fun though! As for Mourinho's comments he said thatSo he didn't separate the factors - he tied the prestige part to the CL qualification which is why it doesn't really matter, but of course he would *like* to get 2nd.
OK fair enough. But the point remains for the mid table clubs.Agree about the absurd part
So he didn't separate the factors - he tied the prestige part to the CL qualification which is why it doesn't really matter, but of course he would *like* to get 2nd.
Actually, no it doesnt. Im done. You can have this. You win logic. I will accept I am an oddball for thinking there is intrinsic value, outside of European qualification or PL survival, in achieving a higher position in the league table. It takes its place among my many other odd views.
I think finishing the season very strongly (i.e. finishing second) has less to do with prestige, and more to do with intent for next season. At the end of the day we're finishing second so have "failed". So second or forth mean the same thing really in that sense.
As i said, it's all about next season and showing intent.
As i said, it's all about next season and showing intent.
Agree. We will most likely be in the top 4, but it would be good to get as many points possible and finish highest as we can. Getting for example 80 points as you say is more than the respectable number in this league. It's not a reason to celebrate or anything, just a sign and confirmation of our progress.
We don’t need to feel any joy and brag about finishing above Liverpool.
We sure as shit need to make sure they don’t have any joy and get to brag about finishing above us though.
Which they would.
We sure as shit need to make sure they don’t have any joy and get to brag about finishing above us though.
Which they would.
I’ll say it again to others who seem to think I’ve made a reactionary post, I’ve stood by this position since November.Fecking idiots
A scrappy yet admittedly spirited clawback, against relegation candidates, isn’t going to make me eat my words.
I can’t see United back to their best under him, 18 months on and still play like a bunch of individuals who struggle to pass 5 yards forward. The fact that people seem to think these performances, where we’re absolute dogshite for 60+ mins, are a one off, is astounding.
Players need to take responsibility but the buck stops with the man at the helm. They don’t seem to enjoy the football and surprise surprise neither do a lot of the fans.
I gave Van Gaal no love for the absolutely tumescent football we turned out under his spell. Mourinho is roughly at the same point now and the football is just as dire, better results aside, it still feels as if we desperately scramble and cling on rather than comfortably see a game out. The team can play a lot positively than this, it doesn’t mean they have to be City/Liverpool gung ho about it.
Also there’s 9 games left, stop thinking 2nd is a foregone conclusion. Top 4 should be safe.
I agree, sadly, City make a beautiful season, as we had not seen for a long time.
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It is a weird situation, Mourinho's inability to organise us and have us playing as a team. I agree with what a lot of people have said, that we look like a collection of talented individuals, but not much of a team. It is meant to be his biggest strength - his organisation and team spirit building - in the short term at least. We are in the second-season-sweet-spot but it just isnt happening.
Ive said this before but I think its because he is trying to do it differently to how he has done it in the past. He is trying to take "the United way" on board and is struggling to synthesise what he is good at with what he knows we want. The good news, if Im right, is that he is at least trying to adapt to be what the club wants him to be. He is an intelligent and experienced guy so maybe he will get it right - I certainly feel we have little choice but to back him and hope for the best. But my worry is it means we end up with neither: it isnt the swashbuckling football many fans want, but it isnt his own ruthlessly efficient brand of anti football either. Its a hybrid, but it doesnt always look like it is taking the right elements of its component parts.
Ive said this before but I think its because he is trying to do it differently to how he has done it in the past. He is trying to take "the United way" on board and is struggling to synthesise what he is good at with what he knows we want. The good news, if Im right, is that he is at least trying to adapt to be what the club wants him to be. He is an intelligent and experienced guy so maybe he will get it right - I certainly feel we have little choice but to back him and hope for the best. But my worry is it means we end up with neither: it isnt the swashbuckling football many fans want, but it isnt his own ruthlessly efficient brand of anti football either. Its a hybrid, but it doesnt always look like it is taking the right elements of its component parts.
@JG3001 , I'm still on the fence regarding Mourinho but tend to agree with what you say in your post. It's difficult to understand how we still look so clueless in big parts of games. And I'm also of the oppinion that this bunch of players should preform better as a unit. We don't have a certain way of playing that you recognise when we attack and it seems to happen more by coincidence because we have some very good players.
I'm still unsure where the club would go after Mourinho though, who do they go for? I just think this has to be carefully considered.
I'm still unsure where the club would go after Mourinho though, who do they go for? I just think this has to be carefully considered.
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