They were worse but always capable of game raising. That's why they could win a CL whilst finishing 5th for example. Something I don't think we could ever do. When we win, we have to be the best.
Were Liverpool ever this bad?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Yeah it's a bit odd this thread. Are people really starting to misremember how bad they were just because they're excellent now?
They did outperform against us even during their worse years though. That usually meant holding us to a draw or keeping us to a small lead.
So yeah in a one off they were probably never this bad, they didn't collapse like we do. It's not gap in quality as those have been bigger in our favour, it's mentality.
Someone in another thread just claimed our players should only be motivated by our points not stopping Liverpool. I'm pretty certain Liverpool outperformed their quality against us because they played to stop us.
Don't think I would agree with that, top 2, gap to 3, gap to 4-8 gap, 9-15 gap 16-20, its like a salami sandwich!
TV revenues have helped lower clubs, but compared with top 6 finances its still peanuts.
Liverpool won their 18 of the 19 league titles pre-PL days!
I would agree that the top 2 maybe 3 teams are much stronger than 4-8 etc., but that's not indicative of the PL as a whole, with the exception of United (of course) and possibly West Ham, Brentford and Everton (for differing reasons) most other PL clubs are where they would expect to be on their strengths.
I disagree, I honestly think the league as a whole is ridiculously strong. This poster summed it up much more eloquently than I could have.
If this was 10 years ago us or Chelsea would have plucked Rice from West Ham and they’d have been happy for it. Same for Zaha at Palace, Richarlison at Everton, probably even Kane at Spurs. It took a 9 figure sum to prise Grealish away from Villa!
Using league placements when there is such a disparity in outlay, wage and cost of personnel, even allowing for inflation, is asinine.
I'm sure even scousers will remember when Barca absolutely tore them to shreads in Anfield. That was one of their worst defeats in CL in Anfiled I can remember. They also fell into europa league for a good few seasons. I don't remember their sides necessarily being as soft as our current side seems to be. They were always dogged, but definitely subpar in terms of ability.
Let’s wait to see how long it takes us to win the league first shall we. I don’t think it will take us 30 years. I’m pretty sure Liverpool have been as bad as we are at the minute. They finished below us in quite a few seasons after fergie left. They’ve finished like 8th and 7th before now. Have we ever finished 7th or below since fergie has left?
They were pretty horrendous in the period between Rafa and Klopp except for that 1 season with Brentan, but even then they won nothing and we got the amazing moment of the 'slip'. I remember around the LVG time taking consolation in that as bad as we were they were still worse. They always seemed to be competitive in Europe though, when they got there. Their story does give hope that if Utd stumble on the right setup and manager, which they will do eventually, things can improve very very quickly,
Some of the negativity in this thread is hilarious. Football goes on in interesting cycles. The cycles of all great teams comes crashing down. Only recently, the mesmerising Barcelona side looked the greatest of all tike - look at them now.
This Liverpool cycle will come to end all too soon. We will have a great upturn, and another bust cycle will follow.
Football demands patience and hard work.
This Liverpool cycle will come to end all too soon. We will have a great upturn, and another bust cycle will follow.
Football demands patience and hard work.
We were absolutely awful in the Roy and Dalglish era, around 2010-2012. We started to look good again only after Suarez and then Rodgers.
We had absolutely dross in our line-ups. Konchesky… Poulsen… Charlie Adam… I could go on and on. But we always raised our game against United, Chelsea, Everton. Although most of the times we didn’t have what was needed to win those games, at least we always put up a fight.
We had absolutely dross in our line-ups. Konchesky… Poulsen… Charlie Adam… I could go on and on. But we always raised our game against United, Chelsea, Everton. Although most of the times we didn’t have what was needed to win those games, at least we always put up a fight.
I think they had spells of being this bad, but they always had passion in the big games and a commitment we can't find !!
They also pretty much always had a couple of really good players. Even during the bad years they had people like Gerrard, Alonso, Torres, Suarez etc. We don't have commitment or a talisman at their peak.
They also pretty much always had a couple of really good players. Even during the bad years they had people like Gerrard, Alonso, Torres, Suarez etc. We don't have commitment or a talisman at their peak.
I dont think a club in the history of football has spent so much money in fees and salaries and have so little to show for it as Utd over the last few years. Its not negativity to see how many gaping holes we have in this squad or the fundamental absence of key and basic football attributes in a number of our signings. That is the point. Plus its more than just cycles, we will never compete until we have a complete overhaul of our football structure. I remain doubtful that will ever happen under the current owners, but lets see.
The gap was as big or bigger in the past, but even with Hodgson when we had Sir Alex they stepped up and made it a game, while we couldn't perform our best to fully hammer them like the 8-2 against Arsenal.
someone on here mentioned Phil Babb - that made me chuckle.......Harry Maguire is our Phil Babb.......
Is that not what’s happening at the moment?
At the time Fergie retired, they were finishing regularly between 6th and 8th for 4 successive seasons.
Even when they were shite they rarely gave us an easy game of it 
Yesterday I re-watched the game at Anfield in 1999 where they almost derailed our treble bid (with massive help from the referee). They had Mcmanaman, Ince, Redknapp, but were missing Owen and Fowler on the day; those are some very good players but they finished 7th for the season. The thing that stood out for me is that they did play with passion and a lot of intensity on the day. It was quite a poor game in terms of chances but neither side stopped running. It was a hard slog of a match, and I hope we can give them at least a tough match tonight
Yesterday I re-watched the game at Anfield in 1999 where they almost derailed our treble bid (with massive help from the referee). They had Mcmanaman, Ince, Redknapp, but were missing Owen and Fowler on the day; those are some very good players but they finished 7th for the season. The thing that stood out for me is that they did play with passion and a lot of intensity on the day. It was quite a poor game in terms of chances but neither side stopped running. It was a hard slog of a match, and I hope we can give them at least a tough match tonight
They were worse at times but the sad fact is that the difference between us now is so big yet we have spent more money in transfers and wages the last few years than they have.
It’s the most embarrassing gap between the two of us in history for me. When they are shit it was because they had crap players yet now on paper our team is not that far away but coach wise and players giving a shit it’s light years
It’s the most embarrassing gap between the two of us in history for me. When they are shit it was because they had crap players yet now on paper our team is not that far away but coach wise and players giving a shit it’s light years
I think there is a fair degree of revisionism on this forum. Yes, Liverpool were as bad as we are now. In the premier league era, go back to the Souness days, early days of houllier or hodgson and daglish. And we have went to Anfield and beat them soundly, 96/97, 97/98. We did not beat them 5-0 At Anfield, but we were in absolute free fall then and if we want to compare hammerings, we destroyed them at home in 02/03, I think hyppia or henchoz was sent off early .. they were in a similar place to what we are now, this was the end for houllier
They were worse for long periods of time, but they got a bit of a free pass because its Liverpool. Slating Liverpool doesn't shift as many papers as slating United. Anyway, it doesn't matter. We gain nothing from the fact Liverpool were worse than we are now at a certain point in time. What matters is how they have been allowed to overtake us to the extent they have, its staggering. We have majorly let ourselves go
Thanks for all the replies! It’s really interesting! Oh I definitely remember that Liverpool had some shocking teams: I remember the likes of Torvin Picnic, John Scales and Sinima Pongolle (forgive the spellings) I guess the point is, (which I think others have identified) even in their most dire, dark days I never that we would smash them by 5 or 6 as they would raise their game and fight like it was a cup final.
This current United team I could seriously see rolling over for the scouse tonight! Hope I’m wrong! COME ON YOU REDS
This current United team I could seriously see rolling over for the scouse tonight! Hope I’m wrong! COME ON YOU REDS
The team we've put out tonight could rival some of the liverpool squads mentioned in this thread
That Leicester team was really good. They had really good balance with Vardy, Mahrez and Kante. Yes they fell off since, but they did lose their most important player in Kante. Turns out really good defensive midfielders can make a team.
They were bad. But they turned up for matches against bigger teams and treated it like a cup final.
There have been times where they were worse than us right now, but to their credit they actually turned up for bigger games and actually gave a damn. No matter how bad they were we would always expect a tough fight from them.
What pains me about our side right now is how nonplussed we seem most of the time. They don't give a damn if we lose 4-0, 5-0. Can't bring myself to like more than a handful of our players.
What pains me about our side right now is how nonplussed we seem most of the time. They don't give a damn if we lose 4-0, 5-0. Can't bring myself to like more than a handful of our players.
Ability wise they had worse teams, but I don't think i've ever seen players who were just not even the slightest bit bothered in playing for them back then, they at least gave a damn. Our group of players, forget about ability, the majority of them walking around the pitch like they'd rather be anywhere else and its unforgiveable imo
Oh they were dire, without a doubt, even worse than us. But whenever we played them they raised their game and put up a fight, unlike this lot that don’t seem to know the rivalry.
They were, but maybe the gap wasn't ever as big as this at any given time, head to head at least.
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They weren't, no.
This is what I was saying a while ago how lesser teams from Italy France and Spain can give our top 2/3 a game and win or draw yet we're so poor and mentally fragile we wilt in front of them. It's criminal how cack we are after the money spent. Liverpool we losing at home to teams you never heard of in Europa/Uefa cup yet still had something on the day to put up some fight.
Hope we can at least get a draw after their tough game at the weekend but they'll probably be all ped up and raring to tear us a new again while we crouch down scared.
This is what I was saying a while ago how lesser teams from Italy France and Spain can give our top 2/3 a game and win or draw yet we're so poor and mentally fragile we wilt in front of them. It's criminal how cack we are after the money spent. Liverpool we losing at home to teams you never heard of in Europa/Uefa cup yet still had something on the day to put up some fight.
Hope we can at least get a draw after their tough game at the weekend but they'll probably be all ped up and raring to tear us a new again while we crouch down scared.
They were equally shit, but I dont remember them being as demoralized as us, maybe they didnt had much expectations. I mean if Crystal Palace or freaking Aston Villa were to match them I would be more certain of them getting a result than us.
We are so weak mentally that its innevitably to think they will roll past us.
We are so weak mentally that its innevitably to think they will roll past us.
I don't remember it ever being this easy for us in the derby. Even in Liverpool's worst period they would always give us a game and the result was never a foregone conclusion. They would at least bring the fight.
We are clueless and feckless.
We are clueless and feckless.
Carragher just said in commentary, even at their worst Liverpool showed some fight and a backbone, and never made it easy for us.
We’ve given up, on the game and the rest of the season.
We’ve given up, on the game and the rest of the season.
Wow, that’s incredibly crap. Amazing that Henderson has played in that side and went on to become a key player in this team.
Liverpool were much worse. I don’t know how some people don’t remember just how low they fell.
Also the 07-08 United team probably beat this Liverpool team as well.
Also the 07-08 United team probably beat this Liverpool team as well.
That is one thing I agree with, whilst Liverpool hit a lower drop, whenever they played United they gave them a very hard time.
United just get steam rolled.
Liverpool did a lot more with a lot less.
Liverpool as a football club have more a character than Man Utd do. That's not just the players, it's the entire club. Anfield was always a bit of a fortress - we were shitting ourselves there in our prime. That's the difference tbh
Liverpool were never this bad in this fixture. Their fans never had to turn up to Old Trafford fearing how many they’d be beaten by.
The league is stronger compared to European teams and the championship but the gap from top to bottom is far wider. 100pts proves it’s weaker. If other sides were stronger they’d be able to beat City and Liverpool more often.
Yeah. They did better than this even when they had Hyypia sent off in the 4th minute.