What’s actually the point of getting Top 4 with owners like the Glazers?

[Rhyme Animal]

Been thinking about this a lot this window, and how vested we all were in the club finishing Top 4 just a few months back.

We know that historically the Glazers never support a manager fully after he’s achieved Top 4, I’m surprised the media doesn’t pick up on it tbh.

We also know that without a lot of owner investment and good decision making - 2 things the Glazers aren’t capable of or willing to do - this Utd side will definitely not win the CL.

And we’re now seeing no apparent preference of players choosing CL sides over non CL sides…

Liverpool have brought in Mac Allister on a wonderful deal, and have also just signed Szoboszlai.

Chelsea have made loads of signings this year and are looking very likely to bring in Caicedo soon.

So… with owners like the Glazers, what’s the actual point in finishing Top 4?

Participation in the CL, while knowing we won’t win it? Is that alone worth biting our nails for and urging Utd on towards? Is that what Utd has sunk to?

It benefits the crooks that run the club, of course, but could an argument even be put forward that from ETH’s POV, it might’ve actually been better to finish close 5th and then at least receive better backing as history has shown us?

Moving forward, if the Glazers remain and / or if the club is clearly not receiving the investment needed to actually win the CL, is it worth getting vested in a battle for Top 4 if the only people it benefits are a family of greedy parasites who will reward any manager who gets them CL with a crap window full of excuses and avoidance?

 

[Sunny Jim]

Dividends.

 

[Hal9000]

Honestly think this sale would of went through if we missed out on CL this season.. they probably see the extra pennies from the CL to try and hang on for another year or drive the value up.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Dividends.

Indeed.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Honestly think this sale would of went through if we missed out on CL this season.. they probably see the extra pennies from the CL to try and hang on for another year or drive the value up.

Yeah, it’s crossed my mind also.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

We also know that without a lot of owner investment and good decision making - 2 things the Glazers aren’t capable of or willing to do - this Utd side will definitely not win the CL.

This is where I disagree. The CL is a knockout cup competition - we're unlikely to win it, sure, but there's always the possibility of getting favorable draws, turning up on the night, and fluking a win. Hell, Chelsea did it twice in the last 11 years with teams that were pretty poor (by CL winners' standards).

 

[Utd heap]

I generally just like to see Utd finish as hig up the table as possible. Weird I know.

 

[Bilbo]

Has all of the romance gone out of football for so many? I want to see my team in the champions league competing against the best sides in Europe.

 

[Lentwood]

You could easily flip this on its head and say that what actually happens is that we have to massively overspend because we miss out on Champions League football, then have to sit and suffer the following season because we've a) blown our budget and b) are feeling the knock-on impact of NOT being in the Champions League the previous season.

The Glazers have caused immeasurable damage, but not because funds havent been made available, more because they have been too readily available to the wrong people!

 

[tomaldinho1]

Playing in the CL is its own reward, Europa is honestly so disheartening

 

[Reditus]

What’s the point in getting promoted to the PL? its not like Luton are gonna win the thing

 

[Hound Dog]

This is where I disagree. The CL is a knockout cup competition - we're unlikely to win it, sure, but there's always the possibility of getting favorable draws, turning up on the night, and fluking a win. Hell, Chelsea did it twice in the last 11 years with teams that were pretty poor (by CL winners' standards).

I have been saying the same lie to myself for years but then I realized...

If anything, United's football heritage is to underpeform in the CL. No famous underdog runs in the comp by the club in recent history and the sole memorable knockout moment of the last ten years was that night in Paris... Only to be smashed by Barcelona in the next round.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Playing in the CL is its own reward, Europa is honestly so disheartening

I agree.

Though I don’t think this cycle of finish Top 4 = don’t invest, struggle, don’t finish Top 4 - invest, is helping the club.

I think it’s really hurting the club.

And I think this Summer it’s particularly glaring, having a promising, intelligent, modern coach like ETH who’s just won a trophy, finished 3rd and reached another final in his first season and then is left being treated EXACTLY how the Glazers previous coaches.

This is the time to back the manager properly, and again, they are just hung out to dry.

Of course with vested, ambitious owners CL is very important for a club. For Newcastle for example, it’s a huge deal because it means they can build further in their project and take steps closer to where they want to be.

But this isn’t the case at Utd, it never goes anywhere other than a frustrated manager, a season of struggle and often the manager losing their job.

It’s a Sisyphean cycle that only benefits the owners. It’s the cycle that has left Utd where it is after 10 years.

@Big Ben Foster I just don’t see it. Yes, it’s technically possible, but I really think with where footy is going and what’s needed now from owners at the highest level it’s increasingly less likely that a ‘plucky underdog’ wins the CL.

As it stands, unless the owners are removed swiftly, or they turn this window around, I think there’s every chance Utd will very likely struggle to finish Top 4 next season.

 

[New Era 77]

Honestly think this sale would of went through if we missed out on CL this season.. they probably see the extra pennies from the CL to try and hang on for another year or drive the value up.

Exactly,

The Glazers have always invested less once we make the Champions League and we often end up weaker.

The reason is the Adidas deal where we have to qualify at least once every 2 years or we lose £75m (I think it is)

It's not a coincidence we never miss 2 years in a row.

The Glazers will sit in comfort knowing the Adidas money is secure with the bonus of extra Champions League payments.

Now however, the PL money has doubled nearly, so top 4 is more critical for the Glazers and sadly, I also feel that missing out this year, would have sen the Glazers sell up a lot quicker.

 

[Bubz27]

It benefits the crooks that run the club, of course, but could an argument even be put forward that from ETH’s POV, it might’ve actually been better to finish close 5th and then at least receive better backing as history has shown us?

To do what? Finish top 4 next season and then be under supported in 2024 instead of 2023?

I think its shit that our owners make fans feel like this but its a side of the Glazers non-United fans never talk about. This isn't what supporting a football club should be about.

 

[Roboc7]

The reluctance from the club to buy and sell players always kicks in for new managers. That’s stage we’re at now and it kills any momentum, it’s better to be in the Champions League of course but we’ll be just making up the numbers. Until we get new owners and better support in key positions for the manager we’ll be stuck in this same cycle.

 

[Plant0x84]

Has all of the romance gone out of football for so many? I want to see my team in the champions league competing against the best sides in Europe.

Is that not with the express intention of winning though? Not a lot of fun getting drubbed by better teams.

 

[Plant0x84]

Playing in the CL is its own reward, Europa is honestly so disheartening

Shame it ended when it did, would have been nice to go up against Jose and Smalling at Roma, but generally I’ve enjoyed it this year - knocking out Barca the obvious highlight!

 

[Rood]

Although the Glazers tended to spend less after CL qualification, I think you are letting managers and players off the hook for some shite performances in the CL in recent times

We often went out to teams with much lower budgets so you can't blame the spending

 

[AndySmith1990]

Yes we've gone through the same cycle several times. Miss out on the CL. Go on a spending spree. Qualify for the CL. Spend less and sign worse players than when we failed to make top 4.

Being in the CL itself is the reward tbf. But we've absolutely zero hope of winning the thing until the Glazers are gone. We won't even improve to the point where top 4 is guaranteed

 

[Reapersoul20]

Better than getting top four representing the glorious oil nation of Qatar, being Qatar FC and normalizing slavery, homophobia and treating women as second class citizens.

 

[Sauxees Moi Hui]

Oh, people are actually expecting the Glazers to spend 300M on the squad right before they sell the club? And the potential buyers to agree to this?

We're getting Mount for a reasonable price. We've sold some young players who weren't going to make it. We cut our wage bill massively by waving goodbye to De Gea. It's still just early July. Be patient.

If there is one issue I do have with this transfer window, it's that we haven't flogged any of our unwanted players to Saudi Arabia.

 

[NotChatGPT]

In terms of spending less after qualifying for the Champions League, i don’t think there’s much too it. Mourinho is the only clear case of the club not wanting to spend money, but that was also at the stage where things had gone sour under Mourinho and he wanted to spend fortunes to replace the players we had signed under him.

Moyes got the sack, we didn’t finish top4. Under Van Gaals first season we spent a rather hefty amount on the likes of:
Di Maria
Shaw
Rojo
Blind
Herrera
Falcao

We finished 4th

Van Gaal second season and we signed:
Martial for a hefty fee
Morgan Schneiderlin
Memphis Depay
Darmian
Schweinsteiger

Substantial investments to go forward. Got the sack, won the FA cup and just missed out on 4th.

Hired Mourinho and in his first season we spent a fortune on:
Pogba
Mkhi
Zlatan
Bailly

Finished 6th but won the Europa league

In his second season we signed:
Lukaku
Matic
Lindelof
Sanchez
Desperately tried to sign Antoine Griezmann

Also substantial investments to keep improving. Finished 2nd, atmosphere was turning sour, Mourinho wanted to spend a fortune replacing the players he had signed for hefty fees.
We ended up signing Fred and Dalot.

Ole comes in and we sign:
Maguire
Fernandes
James
Bissaka

Finish 3rd, we then sign:
Donny
Diallo
Telles
Pellistri
Desperately tried to sign Sancho
Bring in Cavani on a free

Finish 2nd, we then sign:
Sancho
Varane
Ronaldo

Also substantial investments to keep improving.

ETH comes in and in his first transfer window we spend heavily on:
Antony
Casemiro
Martinez
Malacia

Second window remains to be seen. We’re limited by FFP and we need to offload players, at the same time as we’re in the process of being sold.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Has all of the romance gone out of football for so many? I want to see my team in the champions league competing against the best sides in Europe.

The answer is YES. The Glazers have sucked up all the joy in football.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

They will back the manger. They just aren’t very good at anything except making money.

 

[DRJosh]

Well what's the point having scouts when we're so bad at acquiring the right players. We're the worst run top 6 club in recent history and it's not because of a lack of spending.

 

[Siorac]

We know that historically the Glazers never support a manager fully after he’s achieved Top 4, I’m surprised the media doesn’t pick up on it tbh.

The media doesn't pick up on it because it's not true. We spent €150m or more each summer in 2015, 2017 (Lukaku, Matic, Lindelöf), and 2021 (Sancho, Varane, Ronaldo).

We had two disappointing transfer windows after qualifying for the CL: 2018 and 2020. It's not really a pattern.

 

[Abhinav]

Well what's the point having scouts when we're so bad at acquiring the right players. We're the worst run top 6 club in recent history and it's not because of a lack of spending.

And a big reason why we are so badly run is the Glazers and their appointments.
The money we have spent is based on the hardwork of one great man (and a few others) who steered and kept the club at the top, right when english football was ramping up its commercialisation.
Glazers acquired a cash cow, bled it dry, and are leaving (hopefully soon) in a state where we are 1 billion pounds in debt, have lost all commercial advantage and require a huge influx to get us back to the position where SAF left us.
Spending was not a problem at an aggregate level but a consistent spending strategy where we do not strengthen any time we finish in the top 4 is a huge issue.

 

[Real Name]

This certainly is a new theme.

 

[bringbackbebe]

They will be out by end of the month. Can only imagine the fan uproar if they show their faces as owners at the start of the season.

 

[Nicolarra90]

Has all of the romance gone out of football for so many? I want to see my team in the champions league losing against the best sides in Europe.

 

[backofthenet]

They will be out by end of the month. Can only imagine the fan uproar if they show their faces as owners at the start of the season.

Like they care? They are never in Manchester, so it doesn't affect them what fans think. They can sit over in Florida for as long as it takes to get the maximum out of the club sale as possible... which could take a long time.

 

[Appletonred]

The Ronaldo interview with Piers Morgan was spot on, the Glazers do not care about the club, it is a business to them for their own enrichment, and the club will only start to fully recover its full potential when they leave completely and the club has a more caring ownership.

 

[New Era 77]

Oh, people are actually expecting the Glazers to spend 300M on the squad right before they sell the club? And the potential buyers to agree to this?

We're getting Mount for a reasonable price. We've sold some young players who weren't going to make it. We cut our wage bill massively by waving goodbye to De Gea. It's still just early July. Be patient.

If there is one issue I do have with this transfer window, it's that we haven't flogged any of our unwanted players to Saudi Arabia.

Another summer of people saying be patient.

We have literally spent 9 of the last 10 summers almost waiting until deadline day to sign anyone at times.

It's pathetic how this club has been run. So being patient isn't something we should say casually.

Last summer was an improvement, but already, it seems we had targets and are now adjusting to 3rd choices based on how much is in the piggy bank.

 

[wolvored]

Oh, people are actually expecting the Glazers to spend 300M on the squad right before they sell the club? And the potential buyers to agree to this?

We're getting Mount for a reasonable price. We've sold some young players who weren't going to make it. We cut our wage bill massively by waving goodbye to De Gea. It's still just early July. Be patient.

If there is one issue I do have with this transfer window, it's that we haven't flogged any of our unwanted players to Saudi Arabia.

There is some merit in what you say. It was always going to come down to sell before you buy as we already have a bloated squad. Maguire, Bailley, Telles, Henderson, VDB, Williams, there's six players who didn't and wont get regular playing time, along with McFred and Martial all need moving on. We cant keep buying players on big wages, then loaning them out when the new manager doesn't want them, because they are unsellable for various reasons.
The parasites sucking off the club and not putting any money back in doesn't help either.

 

[Monks_United]

What's the point of life when we are all gonna die anyways ? Thems are the questions !!

 

[11101]

The Ronaldo interview with Piers Morgan was spot on, the Glazers do not care about the club, it is a business to them for their own enrichment, and the club will only start to fully recover its full potential when they leave completely and the club has a more caring ownership.

City's owner has attended two games in the 15 years he's owned them. He doesn't give a feck about them and nor does he need to. All we need is an owner who will let competent people run the club and not take money out of it. The idea of a caring owner in a multi billion dollar sports club is a pipedream.

 

[Bwuk]

The Ronaldo interview with Piers Morgan was spot on, the Glazers do not care about the club, it is a business to them for their own enrichment, and the club will only start to fully recover its full potential when they leave completely and the club has a more caring ownership.

Ronaldo said a lot of truth in his interview.

 

[Bondi77]

I generally just like to see Utd finish as hig up the table as possible. Weird I know.

Nah....it's all about spending money and transfer speculation on here buddy.
Football is way down the list.

 

[Scarecrow]

That’s a bit silly. We won the thing with them as owners. Reached 3 finals.