I don't think he knows either. The first goal was a combination of positional screwups between Fellaini and Cleverley. Toure was on the edge of the box but Fellaini and Cleverley was standing behind him. Silva makes the run from deep and still no midfielders picked him up. It took a last ditch challenge from Rafael to stop the goal but by that time our defence were already in disarray.
What did DM actually do wrong tonight?
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Moving swiftly on, in case my posts in this thread are perceived as a defence of Moyes tonight. I think he got a LOT wrong. Starting with trying out a new formation we haven't once played before in a derby game that's almost in fecking April.
9 months of mismanagement means he is in a position where there was no way we were beating City at Old Trafford tonight. He made mistakes tonight, but they were pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Easy to play the blame game but I ask you to give me one genuine positive from our games against City, Liverpool or Chelsea - thank god Jose was afraid bid us in that first game
De Gea is the one I can think of
De Gea is the one I can think of
Yes you're right, Telegraph, Guardian, MEN etc, all wrong. Cleverley played in central midfield near the right touchline. Anyone who disagrees with that just gets a silly emoticon that says "/argument"
I know you're a fan of the 'holier than thou' style of debate but really, if anyone thought Cleverley started as a CM then they must be people who think the TV pundits assumed pre-match line-up graphics are official. He was spending much for the first half HUGGING THE TOUCHLINE.
Yet "he played CM"....anyone who watched the game can see it isn't true you're just in one of your 'I said it so now it must be defended at all costs' moods.
Can you find one independent review of the match that had Cleverley pegged as a CM?
Played the 3 least mobile midfielders ever.
I had no issues with the team selection.
What was the game plan, can anyone tell me? We didn't set up to annul any of City's obvious threats. Moyes acknowledged that Silva would play behind the striker in his pre-match interview, yet we allowed him to run freely from kick off.
What was our attacking game plan? We haven't formulated any attacking pattern in nine months. I genuinely believe Moyes' plan is to allow the likes of Rooney and van Persie to go out and do their thing, with not much of a cohesive plan yet hopefully resulting in us scoring goals. There's no concrete plan with regards the attacking phase of play, it's painfully obvious.
Look, Moyes is clearly out of his depth and not up to it, everyone and their dog could tell you that, bar Ferguson and Charlton, the powers that be. All we can do is grit our teeth and wait 'til he's sacked, which will be Christmas at the earliest.
What was the game plan, can anyone tell me? We didn't set up to annul any of City's obvious threats. Moyes acknowledged that Silva would play behind the striker in his pre-match interview, yet we allowed him to run freely from kick off.
What was our attacking game plan? We haven't formulated any attacking pattern in nine months. I genuinely believe Moyes' plan is to allow the likes of Rooney and van Persie to go out and do their thing, with not much of a cohesive plan yet hopefully resulting in us scoring goals. There's no concrete plan with regards the attacking phase of play, it's painfully obvious.
Look, Moyes is clearly out of his depth and not up to it, everyone and their dog could tell you that, bar Ferguson and Charlton, the powers that be. All we can do is grit our teeth and wait 'til he's sacked, which will be Christmas at the earliest.
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His game plan was to contain and when that failed within 44 seconds his back up plan was to contain some more.
How often does navas start? There first 11 doesn't have a winger in it.
It's not about selection or tactics or game plan. The team just looks undercoached. I'm sure it's not in terms of time spent on the pitch, but it just doesn't look like a team enough. Just a bunch of good individuals. For whatever reason, he can't get it to gel.
It's not about winning any more. It's about getting back some self-respect.
Or in other words, it's not about any individual. It's about the club.
Or in other words, it's not about any individual. It's about the club.
Picking a 3 man midfield that plays more like a 1 man midfield.
@Pogue Mahone how about you tell us how you feel instead of criticising anybody that does have an opinion on what's gone wrong? What's your thoughts? What has gone wrong? Who's fault is it and why?
You seem to have an answer to everybody's opinion yet never seem to give your own.
You seem to have an answer to everybody's opinion yet never seem to give your own.
I think the problem with gelling is that they're asked to play a way alien to them. So many players out of position. Tonight it was Cleverley but before it's been Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj etc.
You either pick players for a system or a system for players. We do neither. We pick a system that doesn't the players. We also go from doing nothing all season than relying on crosses to suddenly not having a single winger on the pitch. I'm a fan of play through the middle but you can't just do one thing exclusively all season and then suddenly stop and not expect a period of adjustment
United played some good stuff in the first half, second half not so much we lost Tom, David thought Coy
where West Ham and where there for the taking put Kagawa on did not work out ;( he twisted when he should of stuck.
where West Ham and where there for the taking put Kagawa on did not work out ;( he twisted when he should of stuck.
That's exactly what I think
Nothing wrong he was class
Got his tactics completely wrong according to ZonalMarking: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/mar/25/david-moyes-manchester-united-tactics-wrong
he did nothing wrong because he is just not good enough for us. he did everything right being moyes but we are not everton only
Still think it was a mistake not to build on the West Ham momentum. It was really all we had going for us. People may not like Young or think kagawa has lived up to potential but we were, at least, in a swing/rhythm off the back of it. Even if you want Young out for Valencia, Nani or Januzaj at least recognise what's worked and grab onto it with both hands.
We may still have lost 3-0 but at least we'd have been able to say "Ah so he noticed the improvement vs West Ham, that's a start".
System going forward shouldnt have changed.
We may still have lost 3-0 but at least we'd have been able to say "Ah so he noticed the improvement vs West Ham, that's a start".
System going forward shouldnt have changed.
I presume Cleverley was somehow supposed to start on the right side of a 3 and follow Silva as he drifted centrally in their usual 4-2-2. When Silva started more centrally we hadn't got a clue what to do. Fellaini was picked to stop Yaya (Haha) and Carrick was there to do nothing.
In no way, shape or form did we think about how we might be able to occupy the defensively suspect Toure or his Mongol in crime Demechelis. Neggy
In no way, shape or form did we think about how we might be able to occupy the defensively suspect Toure or his Mongol in crime Demechelis. Neggy
At least Carrick did his job then. Blowpipe.
Our primary strategy was to get it out wide and whip the ball into the box. This highly ineffective and I am shocked that Moyes seems to be completely blind to this. Crossing works, but only with variety. We had one or two chances where we first tried attacking through the middle and when the blue shirts looked disorganized, we passed it out wide and crossed it in. That led to some decent chances.
Two things: a poor choice of strategy, and a clear lack of organisation/coaching in the team. So basically the same things he's been doing wrong all season.
Which is my main issue with him, he seems to fluke his way into a selection which works and he proceeds to not play it for the next 10 games before fluking into a similar lineup and performance.
This sounds so ridiculous you'd think it was the most outrageous case of hatred ever - but it is true unfortunately. His two best games of the season has included Kagawa in either the number 10 role, or starting out wide but being completely free and Mata staying in the number 10 role.
Both games saw injuries/suspensions as the reason he even considered those line-ups. As soon as he saw how amazing we can perform - he flicked the table in anger and started playing Moyes football again.
4-4-1-1 which Mourinho started killing the last time he came to the Premier League. Moyes is not in this years battle of wits between the managers, he is still in 2003 confused as hell what this "4-3-3" formation was and how we need to act to not get overrun in the midfield.
Another bullshit excuse
Nobody expect a zidanesque midfield to run rings at them, a mere "midfield" will not be look so bad, ask half of the EPL team playing city at home, do they look so clueless with a midfield I don't even remember what their name is?
He got the selection and tactics wrong right at the start itself. There wasn't any shape until he moved Fellaini back and Mata in the middle. And had to accommodate Cleverley on the right. And even when we actually went in to the half time looking fine, there was nothing in the 2nd half.
I wonder how he is not even learning from his mistakes.
I wonder how he is not even learning from his mistakes.
He did everything wrong, from the first 11, to the formation, to the tactics, to motivating the player and finally to the subs he made. What a joke of a manager, you'd think somebody paid a lot of money to destroy Man Utd.
How about tonight then ?
Starting Giggs was a mistake. Fellaini was poor but that wasn't really on Moyes, I can see why he picked him.
Other than that he did well. Tonight wasn't exactly calling out for a overly complicated and expansive gameplan but we certainly did what we had to proficiently. No real complaints.
Other than that he did well. Tonight wasn't exactly calling out for a overly complicated and expansive gameplan but we certainly did what we had to proficiently. No real complaints.
Odd bump. There wasn't much wrong today and he actively tried to keep us in the game and told the lads not to sit too deep (Kagawa sub right at half-time caught my positively surprised).
Thought he called it right today and making the Giggs sub at the right time.. Though the goal we conceded was a result of the tactics we employed its one of those things in football, the same things that do work wonders can also put you to the slaughter.
This was really gutsy performance from everyone involved.
This was really gutsy performance from everyone involved.
Playing Fellaini anytime is a mistake.
All other decisions were spot on (maybe Kagawa instead of Valencia would have been better) and the first time we did a great job against a top team.
All other decisions were spot on (maybe Kagawa instead of Valencia would have been better) and the first time we did a great job against a top team.
Don't think you can criticise that, there was a meticulous plan in place there, carried out resolutely by the players, without getting too granular on the exact play by play of it, 0-0 at ht, early 2nd half they start giving the ball away, pick up some yellow cards, that's a plan well executed against the most potent team in Europe.
I am going to be positive here and say I think Moyes did well tonight.
United were very disciplined and well organised in both their shape and tactics. For all Bayern's possession they failed to create a clear cut chance (bar the goal) and were frustrated for large parts of the game. That was no fluke, we were set up to stifle them and did it very well with a number of key players unavailable.
My only gripe tonight was with the substitutions/personnel. Kagawa, who I thought was really good, only came on early due to Giggs picking up a knock. I think Giggs got the nod after his display against Olympiakos in the previous round but Moyes needs to start using Kagawa each week as he is a really gifted modern style player with his neat touches, tight passing and pressing game.
Also this preference of using Ashley Young continues to baffle me. He didn't do badly tonight but just can't understand why Moyes seems to really like using him over Januzaj and Nani.
What I will say, and this contradicts Moyes slightly, is if you replace Buttner and Fellaini in tonights team I don't think we are as far behind Europes best as people are making out. Honestly with the team set up properly next season and a few decent signings we will be fine. We don't need the massive overhaul some feel we do.
United were very disciplined and well organised in both their shape and tactics. For all Bayern's possession they failed to create a clear cut chance (bar the goal) and were frustrated for large parts of the game. That was no fluke, we were set up to stifle them and did it very well with a number of key players unavailable.
My only gripe tonight was with the substitutions/personnel. Kagawa, who I thought was really good, only came on early due to Giggs picking up a knock. I think Giggs got the nod after his display against Olympiakos in the previous round but Moyes needs to start using Kagawa each week as he is a really gifted modern style player with his neat touches, tight passing and pressing game.
Also this preference of using Ashley Young continues to baffle me. He didn't do badly tonight but just can't understand why Moyes seems to really like using him over Januzaj and Nani.
What I will say, and this contradicts Moyes slightly, is if you replace Buttner and Fellaini in tonights team I don't think we are as far behind Europes best as people are making out. Honestly with the team set up properly next season and a few decent signings we will be fine. We don't need the massive overhaul some feel we do.
He should've subbed Fellaini for the experienced Fletcher. We needed more composure down the middle, and of course Adnan should've come on instead of Young. Other than that I guess he did a decent job. Need to work on carrying the ball out better down the middle
Was as critical as anyone of him today, but the tactics were spot on. To be fair to myself and him though, the big change I wanted to see from the start he did at half and it made an instant impact. Kagawa should have started the game, but fair play to him for fixing it. The other change was Fletcher in for Fellaini I wanted to see, can't blame him too much for not starting him but think he would have made a difference with his composure on the ball, intelligence and generally being a more mobile player then Fellaini.
So basically, only the 2 personnel mistakes, but he got the tactics spot on so well done. Hopefully in the second leg he picks the right team so we've got hope.
So basically, only the 2 personnel mistakes, but he got the tactics spot on so well done. Hopefully in the second leg he picks the right team so we've got hope.
His mistakes:
1. Playing Fellaini, not starting Kagawa.
2. Not subbing Fellaini when he was crap.
3. Bringing on Young instead of Januzaj when we still had a chance to win the game. At that point he was just packing it in to protect the draw. Young's "cross it into the box without seeing if anyone is in it" strategy was never going to work.
1. Playing Fellaini, not starting Kagawa.
2. Not subbing Fellaini when he was crap.
3. Bringing on Young instead of Januzaj when we still had a chance to win the game. At that point he was just packing it in to protect the draw. Young's "cross it into the box without seeing if anyone is in it" strategy was never going to work.
One word. Fellaini.
Spot on for the rest.
Spot on for the rest.