What did Ole get wrong today ?

[stw2022]

We faded as the second half went on and we poor in extra time. This is attributable to the fact he didn’t make a single sub whereas the opposition manager kept his team fresh.

The man manages Manchester United and yet people are honestly trying to sell the fact players get tired during matches as something unforseeable and it is more of a problem than we’re giving it credit for being

 

[Oranges038]

Should have made changes to kill the game within the 90. They were there for the taking.
Not making a change until 100 minutes when you can clearly see that half the team are out on their feet was a joke. Allowed their fresh legs to get a foothold in the game and they looked more dangerous for the last 30 minutes.

 

[Schnappo]

Awful attitude. Rashford was horrific, yet was left on.

you need to be seen to try rectify a reoccurring problem. Fresh legs with 20-30 to go is far better than winging it and hoping Plan A works.

he done the same against PSG, didn’t react to what was glaringly obvious and it’s backfired on him.

no one would complain if he made changes and result went against him. Taking Greenwood off who was causing more bother all game than Rashford. It’s just odd he leaves who he does on - andhow late he makes changes.

Unai won it for Villarreal, with a lesser XI and lesser bench, but made changes when we were on top to slow us down - it worked. Ole failed to react - he failed. Fine lines but it is what it is

What? Of course they would.

 

[The White Pele]

He left himself with no real options on the bench if we were level or behind with 20 mins to go. He picked a team that he thought would win the game in the first hour but when that didn’t happen he didn’t really have a plan B to turn to. James was really the only attacker on the bench but thrives on space. His only real move was to bring Fred on and push Pogba on and perhaps he should have done that earlier and taken off Rashford.

He picked an XI that we all probably wanted to see but sometimes in finals I do think you need to leave a bit back for the final stages. Cavani was signed to be that player that could come on and make an impact but he has become our first choice after the season Martial has had. Similarly, Greenwood would have been a fantastic player to bring from the bench if we had landed a right winger for the first XI last summer.

If he had started McFred and had an attacking player to bring on in the last stages of the game maybe the result is different.

I thought our defence did ok in Maguire’s absence but again a poor goal conceded from a set-piece which is something we need to fix for next season.

Finally, he must have been tempted to sub Henderson for De Gea for penalties. I’m not sure if it would have made the difference.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

But it’s not necessarily a worse team. It didn’t take a genius to figure out that Villarreal were going to be defensively well organised and leave very little space, what we needed in the 1st half was not to throw every goalscorer we have in the team up front but to have a little more creativity in forward positions so we are better equipped to breaking them down. This means that Pogba should have played in the inside forward position.
In the 2nd half when the game is more stretched, more space and maybe against tired legs, we can bring on Rashford or Greenwood to exploit this.

Funny that in the build there was talk about how pogba in centre mid was perfect for q low block team because that is where the ball would be. I thought the opposite in the build up, like you did. If you polled the forum though most people would have asked for Fred dropped and pogba further back. It is all highly debatable and only 'obvious' as people are saying after the fact

 

[Crashoutcassius]

What you just described, is a failure on Ole's part. The opposition played for PK, we should not be. Some decision should have been made in 70th to finish the game off, and the 1st name in my mind was Rashford. A 2nd decision need to be make around 90min, try to kill the game during ET. You should think about PK taker in the 110min.

I won't argue whether Fred is better choice than Matic or VDB, or Amad should be better than James. Those are more tactical consideration for Ole. But players failed to show up, should not stay after 70th. In fact, Mourinho infamously sub out sub-par players during 1st half, if necessary.

Yes obviously it is a failure on oles part haha Jesus Christ

 

[Inception]

the non substitution killed us. i don't get why people say there was no-one to bring on? I wonder, if villarreal and us swap benches, would Ole bring anyone on?

 

[Ixion]

There has been mistakes in the weeks leading up to this. Our form for the past month has been shite but it's been glossed over with fixture congestion, saving players for the final, mind not on the league now etc. We hoped we could roll into the final in terrible form and just walk it because we're a bigger club.

And the worst thing is we let Liverpool into the Champions League and have nothing to show for it.

 

[MDFC Manager]

There has been mistakes in the weeks leading up to this. Our form for the past month has been shite but it's been glossed over with fixture congestion, saving players for the final, mind not on the league now etc. We hoped we could roll into the final in terrible form and just walk it because we're a bigger club.

Absolutely and completely spot on. The last month has been abysmal, most of us convinced ourselves that shite form is fine because we were in/gonna win a final.

It shouldn't be a surprise that we duly shat the bed in the final. In fact, if Roma hadn't capitulated in the first leg, we'd not have even made this final

 

[Massive Spanner]

I couldn't really give a shit about the Europa, truth be told. It's not a competition at the level Man Utd should be aspiring to win, we were only in it because we made a total balls of our CL group, and we had easily the best and most expensive squad in it. It means nothing to me. It's basically the European League Cup. Seriously, if someone asked me "who won the Europa last year", I wouldn't have a notion. I actually can't for the life of me remember who won it last year, actually!

But, that aside, last night was still shambolic. It showed that we aren't in any way ready to challenge in the competitions we actually do care about. All this talk on here about progress and how we should be in a position to challenge here is clearly nonsense, even with a few signings it won't happen. There is a clear mentality issue at the club and we have a manager and coaching staff unable to take the players to that next level when they need to. Depressing as feck.

 

[keithsingleton]

Rubbish coaching, no credentials and his team showing no ability to break down a defence.

Defence was very good but with a team like ours we should be breaking g them down. Ole just couldn't work out a plan B on how to do this which is why he won't be able to take us to the next level.

 

[Oldyella]

the non substitution killed us. i don't get why people say there was no-one to bring on? I wonder, if villarreal and us swap benches, would Ole bring anyone on?

Exactly. Swap managers and we win that game.

 

[NZT-One]

Well they weren't were they?

And why pick out just our better players (who were actually some of our worst on the night)?

I guess there is no point arguing with you anyway. You are open for all sorts of factors to interfere with our performance. Except for one specific one. The players I named are way above the level of Villareal, the names you want to point the finger on - Fred, McTominay, Wan Bissaka, Bailley, Lindelof, Axel, James, Greenwood - are certainly not below the Villareal level. For me it is pretty arrogant to just dismiss the players when most of them are relatively young and inexperienced. It is the managers job to give them orientation and Ole failed at that yesterday.

I am, in contrast to others in this thread, not adamant, that Ole is the major issue in yesterdays loss. But he didn't turn up just like most of the players did. Struggling against Emery is fine. Having a plan that doesn't work out in the end is fine. Not adjusting it during the game is problematic. Not reacting to adjustments of the opponent is even more problematic. Not having a plan how to deal with the opponent trying to isolate Bruno and Pogba is an issue. Not pushing his players to power play after the 65th minute when Villareal was visibly done is a big issue. We just accepted them bringing on another DM while taking away a striker, we didn't adjust.

Villareal delivered a worthy performance yesterday. They earned their win. But we have to make it more difficult for them. We simply have to - especially looking at the player material available to us and to them. It didn't took them a stellar performance yesterday. Just fine was enough.

Nothing, we dominated the game and lost the game due to David missing a pen against Spanish 6-5-0 Spanish Burnley.

So on our ascent to top, where "we belong", we just have to hope that we don't come up against teams, that employ such tactics? Good idea, I mean there is nothing else we could do. It is really unfair of other teams to play that way against us. The likes of Bayern, Juve, Real, Barca, PSG never face such conditions...

I'd watch back the match against City where we won and hailed the great performance. Villareal played it pretty similar to us back then. Nobody used the word dominated when describing City in that game.

 

[Lynty]

Oh yeah the final thing that made me laugh or cry was Ole scrambling around on the back of a fag packet in the 119th minute writing down what looked like his penalty takers. I mean, we are a multi billion pound business and it looked like something from Sunday league football.

That was hilarious

OT:

I don't think he got loads wrong. We struggle to do what we've done all season, break down deep defences, and this was possibly the deepest defence I've seen in years. That should have been improved throughout the season, but starting Pogba deeper was indication that Ole knew they'd sit really deep and his only real method of combatting it.

Greenwood was rightly subbed off. His legs were gone after 100mins. He could hardly run.

Rashford should have been pulled during the game - but I understand why you'd leave him on. Subbing him for one of James, Mata or Amad would have been a huge call - that would have only been viewed in a positive light if we won. If Martial had been available, I'm pretty sure that Rashford would have been took off at 70mins.

 

[NZT-One]

That was hilarious

OT:

I don't think he got loads wrong. We struggle to do what we've done all season, break down deep defences, and this was possibly the deepest defence I've seen in years. That should have been improved throughout the season, but starting Pogba deeper was indication that Ole knew they'd sit really deep and his only real method of combatting it.

Greenwood was rightly subbed off. His legs were gone after 100mins. He could hardly run.

Rashford should have been pulled during the game - but I understand why you'd leave him on. Subbing him for one of James, Mata or Amad would have been a huge call - that would have only been viewed in a positive light if we won. If Martial had been available, I'm pretty sure that Rashford would have been took off at 70mins.

Fyi regarding the bold part: in the preview on youtube made by TIFO, they were talking about Villareal often using long balls to Moreno as a way to beat the press and to release pressure. Seeing that Moreno did that quite a few times yesterday confirms that observation and therefor might have added another factor to either use Matic or Pogba in the pivot to challenge Moreno in his actions. Both of them are more comfortable defending aerial balls in comparison to McTominay and especially Fred.

Other than that I agree with your assessment: Ole didn't really collect too many minus-points yesterday but he certainly didn't earn any plus-points. Emery showed, why he won that title so often, he was very much prepared and his team was set up well. Nevertheless, they were physically mostly done by the 70th minute, we should have forced the issue there.

 

[Andycoleno9]

1) Bad match preparation. You don't play final in a way; "lets play our game". Remember what so much hated Jose did to Ajax? He made perfect scouting and simply played on their weak sides. Game was one way street
2) Morale boost. You just can't say after game for trophy; "we didn't turn up". You obviously didn't fired up your players
3) Complete lack of any influence during the game. Changing style, formation, players, substitutions. Anything can change the game. Emery had weaker bench than us and made 5 subs which changed flow of the game. We made first in 110th minute. Others were for penalties
4) Going on penalties after 90 minutes. Not even trying to go and win it

Awful, awful performance by manager. He lost us fame. He, not players.

 

[Buster15]

It was a tight final where they had 1 shot on target and we had 2 we lost the game due to Spanish Dave not saving a single penalty and missing the one he had to take, get over yourself.

Not sure why you chose to repeat what you had just said. We read it the first time.

 

[Buster15]

There has been mistakes in the weeks leading up to this. Our form for the past month has been shite but it's been glossed over with fixture congestion, saving players for the final, mind not on the league now etc. We hoped we could roll into the final in terrible form and just walk it because we're a bigger club.

And the worst thing is we let Liverpool into the Champions League and have nothing to show for it.

Can't argue with any of that.

 

[DSG]

Surprise! A thread dedicated to bashing Ole! Ole outers, your revenge is nigh!

The funniest posts were the ones saying if we had Unai Emery, we’d have won! The same Unai Emery who bollocksed Arsenal. The same Unai Emery who was the architect of the Remontada. We should sack Ole and hire Emery! We’d win the Europa League every year!

It’s a final. Anything can happen. Our stars didn’t perform, and that includes Bruno, Pogba, Rashford.... and 350k per week David DeGea. It’s so easy to second guess Ole because those outcomes are unknown. He didn’t have a lot of great options as his best attacking talent was already on the pitch.

I’m really exhausted with the microscopic dissection of Ole. At the end of the day, it wasn’t good enough to win. He has to shoulder some of the blame — but all of it? Seems a bit extreme to me.

I’m happy to continue building the squad this summer and to give him another year. If he goes another season or two without a major trophy, sack him and move on. It’s that simple, really.

 

[Mr Anderson]

What? Of course they would.

So funny. Much win.

 

[Josep Dowling]

The entire extra time was on him. The first 90 were on the players.

This.

 

[lex talionis]

I'm one of the few who are in the camp that the players themselves underdelivered. Two of our marquee names -- Pogba and Rashford -- were very poor last night. Lindelof shat his pants at the sight of a free kick. And Dave didn't stick the scouting report on the Villareal player (can't remember the name now) who always goes down the middle. And did.

But since this is a thread intended to flog and place Ole into an Iron Maiden (the torture device, not the rock group) let's analyze what Ole got right and got wrong. Briefly,

Ole got the starting XI right. No Maguire, of course, but even though he suited up he was in no position to play. A shame we didn't have one more week. I think we can all agree that the starting XI was an absolute necessity. Knowing that Villareal was another cowardly bus parker we could have gone with Matic over McTominay but Ole made the right call IMO.

Ole should have subbed off a woeful Rashford, who looked a broken footballer. You gotta love his heart for playing through the pain, but it was clear as can be he couldn't beat a mouse, let alone a man. The move to make would have been to sub off Rashford for Van De Beek and push Pogba up front on the left. Of course there are no guarantees this would have resulted in the winning goal, we needed a creative spark and having a fresh Donny and pushing up Pogba for an ailing Rashford would have given us that one extra piece we needed to keep us out of the lottery.

As for Lindelof, we can't flog Ole for starting him. But it wouldn't have been too much to ask of the coaching staff that we use the time we we had in training to work on defending set pieces.

 

[Foxbatt]

I'm one of the few who are in the camp that the players themselves underdelivered. Two of our marquee names -- Pogba and Rashford -- were very poor last night. Lindelof shat his pants at the sight of a free kick. And Dave didn't stick the scouting report on the Villareal player (can't remember the name now) who always goes down the middle. And did.

But since this is a thread intended to flog and place Ole into an Iron Maiden (the torture device, not the rock group) let's analyze what Ole got right and got wrong. Briefly,

Ole got the starting XI right. No Maguire, of course, but even though he suited up he was in no position to play. A shame we didn't have one more week. I think we can all agree that the starting XI was an absolute necessity. Knowing that Villareal was another cowardly bus parker we could have gone with Matic over McTominay but Ole made the right call IMO.

Ole should have subbed off a woeful Rashford, who looked a broken footballer. You gotta love his heart for playing through the pain, but it was clear as can be he couldn't beat a mouse, let alone a man. The move to make would have been to sub off Rashford for Van De Beek and push Pogba up front on the left. Of course there are no guarantees this would have resulted in the winning goal, we needed a creative spark and having a fresh Donny and pushing up Pogba for an ailing Rashford would have given us that one extra piece we needed to keep us out of the lottery.

As for Lindelof, we can't flog Ole for starting him. But it wouldn't have been too much to ask of the coaching staff that we use the time we we had in training to work on defending set pieces.

I do not think anyone is blaming for his starting line up. As for set pieces, this has been a problem all the time. He didn't bring on fresh legs. He didn't sub DeGea for the penalties. LVG did inn the WC and The Netherlands won.

 

[NZT-One]

I'm one of the few who are in the camp that the players themselves underdelivered. Two of our marquee names -- Pogba and Rashford -- were very poor last night. Lindelof shat his pants at the sight of a free kick. And Dave didn't stick the scouting report on the Villareal player (can't remember the name now) who always goes down the middle. And did.

But since this is a thread intended to flog and place Ole into an Iron Maiden (the torture device, not the rock group) let's analyze what Ole got right and got wrong. Briefly,

Ole got the starting XI right. No Maguire, of course, but even though he suited up he was in no position to play. A shame we didn't have one more week. I think we can all agree that the starting XI was an absolute necessity. Knowing that Villareal was another cowardly bus parker we could have gone with Matic over McTominay but Ole made the right call IMO.

Ole should have subbed off a woeful Rashford, who looked a broken footballer. You gotta love his heart for playing through the pain, but it was clear as can be he couldn't beat a mouse, let alone a man. The move to make would have been to sub off Rashford for Van De Beek and push Pogba up front on the left. Of course there are no guarantees this would have resulted in the winning goal, we needed a creative spark and having a fresh Donny and pushing up Pogba for an ailing Rashford would have given us that one extra piece we needed to keep us out of the lottery.

As for Lindelof, we can't flog Ole for starting him. But it wouldn't have been too much to ask of the coaching staff that we use the time we we had in training to work on defending set pieces.

I think, this is pretty much debatable. Not saying Ole made an obvious mistake but indicating that there was no other way to line up, isn't right. Have a look at the previews to the match on Stretford Paddock or Tifo. Villareal isn't "a cowardly bus parker". They scouted us, saw our weaknesses and made use of it. They won the trophy ffs - this is just ignorant, every team is entitled to do whatever they think will work to win them the game. Were we cowards when we decided to counter against the bigger sides in the last two years? Probably not.

Ole could/should have left one of Greenwood or Rashford on the bench to have some sort of impact later on. He didn't and went full strength - I respect that but then I don't get why we were still so cautious going forward. It is fine to field the full attack at the start to steamroll the opponent knowing that subs won't be able to increase offensive pressure, but it isn't fine to then fail to push so hard that goals are forced. It is a weird selection especially for Ole who in 9 of 10 games will go for the more cautious approach (line up wise). Why stop it in a final?

 

[HailtotheKing]

That was hilarious

OT:

I don't think he got loads wrong. We struggle to do what we've done all season, break down deep defences, and this was possibly the deepest defence I've seen in years. That should have been improved throughout the season, but starting Pogba deeper was indication that Ole knew they'd sit really deep and his only real method of combatting it.

Greenwood was rightly subbed off. His legs were gone after 100mins. He could hardly run.

Rashford should have been pulled during the game - but I understand why you'd leave him on. Subbing him for one of James, Mata or Amad would have been a huge call - that would have only been viewed in a positive light if we won. If Martial had been available, I'm pretty sure that Rashford would have been took off at 70mins.

Yeah, and huge calls are what managers get paid for. They're paid to make an impact. Ole may as well have picked the team and gone and watched it in the stands. What did he do? When Klopp throws on Origi (not this season but previous) is it because he looks at him and thinks he's better than what's out there? No, it's because he understands what's out there isn't working and he needs to try something new. It's utterly ridiculous to think that he can't beat Villareal because he doesn't have the players. Managers work with what they've got. But apparently, we need to have a City-like bench to be able to do anything against Villareal. Ridiculous.

 

[Amir]

I'm not really interested in what he did in this one particular match. Whether he should have started this or that player or made earlier subs. It's more about the fact that some of the problems we've seen during the match were nothing new. It's our inability to rectify them over such a long period, that has now cost us the final, that's the issue.

 

[killerboi2]

I couldn't really give a shit about the Europa, truth be told. It's not a competition at the level Man Utd should be aspiring to win, we were only in it because we made a total balls of our CL group, and we had easily the best and most expensive squad in it. It means nothing to me. It's basically the European League Cup. Seriously, if someone asked me "who won the Europa last year", I wouldn't have a notion. I actually can't for the life of me remember who won it last year, actually!

But, that aside, last night was still shambolic. It showed that we aren't in any way ready to challenge in the competitions we actually do care about. All this talk on here about progress and how we should be in a position to challenge here is clearly nonsense, even with a few signings it won't happen. There is a clear mentality issue at the club and we have a manager and coaching staff unable to take the players to that next level when they need to. Depressing as feck.

That's nothing... I can't even remember who we beat or what the score was when WE won the Europa League with Mourinho. I'm just glad Ole is at least giving us regular CL football now and has stabilised the club.

Ole really needs to start winning some of these Mickey Mouse (for lack of a better term) cup competitions now or it starts becoming more and more of a problem the longer it goes on and fans start moaning about no trophies.

 

[snk123]

How can anyone of watched us during Sir Alex era and be happy with what Ole did?

Fergie once put John oshea on at striker to win a game. Guess what? He scored.

Ole is a coward it's simple.

I hate to admit this but you’re spot on. How can any manager not even trust one player from the bench? SAF would have thrown in Amad - and motivated the shit out of him in words like go be a hero.

What was Ole thinking? We were literally yards off in ET because they had 5 fresh players and we had 0.

 

[bond19821982]

It was clear Villarreal had a double decker bus lined up. The space was only on wings. Cavani was sandwiched between 2 defenders and Fernandes was sandwiched between 2 hardworking midfielders. Since there was no point in going to wings, he should have changed the whole structure to have 2 in the box and create the play through middle. Donny and Mata should have been on and Fernandes should have moved right.

Can't believe we tried the same thing for 120 mins. Even if the game played for another 120 mins, we were still not going to score because Villarreal were so comfortable.

 

[stw2022]

I don’t get how you can be of the opinion the players failed to perform yet be okay with a manager who sat watching them under perform and did nothing for the entire duration of normal time.

Isn’t identifying players who aren’t performing kind of his job?

He’s a very passive manager. Not necessarily in terms of his demeanour and presence (that too) but once a game has begun rarely will he influence it. Tactical changes are seldom, changes are made that you suspect were planned days before, he rarely seems to notice or have a problem with under performing players.

Genuinely don’t think if he left the ground at kick off and just came back for the half time team talk and post-match debrief that anyone would be able to tell the difference.

So yeah blame the players but you need to wonder why if you can see they’re not performing why the manager can’t

 

[VanHaal'sRedArmy]

Should've played James, Rashford was not fit to play.

 

[Lee565]

Should have gone with a team better suited to breaking down deep defensive sides and bringing on the impact players later in the match for me it should have been a midfield and attack of - vdb_mctominay_pogba in midfield with bruno and mata in attack playing as narrow inside wingers and cavani up front but obviously ole dare not leave out the golden boy rashford.

 

[darko]

Two mistakes.

First, not starting Fred with McTominay and playing Pogba further forward (preferably left side). He should have sat Greenwood or Rashford. Pogba is better further forward and they would have had an effective player coming off the bench for the forward line.

Not starting Fred (did he have a knock?) was bizarre. Say what you will, but he trusted him all season long as the primary DM and in the final game of the season he decides to sit him. Bizarre.

Secondly, he should have made earlier substitutions. This is a problem he's had all season long. There are players on the bench who should have been used more.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

You cannot argue with his starting line up .. most fans thought that was a great startling line up.

But good managers earn their corn by influencing the game as its unfolding.

Their job is to see what is and what is not working and figuring out how make changes to alter the pattern of a game for the benefit of his side.

Solskjaer's biggest achilles heel is he just does not have the courage to make these big calls during games ... and even more so during big games.

 

[lex talionis]

I think, this is pretty much debatable. Not saying Ole made an obvious mistake but indicating that there was no other way to line up, isn't right. Have a look at the previews to the match on Stretford Paddock or Tifo. Villareal isn't "a cowardly bus parker". They scouted us, saw our weaknesses and made use of it. They won the trophy ffs - this is just ignorant, every team is entitled to do whatever they think will work to win them the game. Were we cowards when we decided to counter against the bigger sides in the last two years? Probably not.

Ole could/should have left one of Greenwood or Rashford on the bench to have some sort of impact later on. He didn't and went full strength - I respect that but then I don't get why we were still so cautious going forward. It is fine to field the full attack at the start to steamroll the opponent knowing that subs won't be able to increase offensive pressure, but it isn't fine to then fail to push so hard that goals are forced. It is a weird selection especially for Ole who in 9 of 10 games will go for the more cautious approach (line up wise). Why stop it in a final?

Ole could have dropped either Rashford or Greenwood, but for whom? No chance he starts James or Diallo over Rashford or Greenwood in a cup final unless one of those two are not physically fit to play. No chance you drop Cavani or Pogba either. Which then leaves the decision to start McFred or one of McFred.

No, Ole did it get it right in his starting XI, but we didn't have the guile to break down the parked bus. I'll retract the word "cowardly" and insert "shrewdly. Villareal shrewdly parked the bus and punished us on a set piece. They did what they had to do and I'm not going to argue against their tactics other than to lament that a Spanish club in a cup final resorting to parked bus/set piece play is sad to watch. It did give us a thrilling pk shootout, but the first 120 itself were dreadful viewing. But blame does fall on us for not having a clue how to break down such opposition. City would have dispatched them with ease.

Unless Ole knew Rashford wasn't physically fit, he had to start him. But it was his failure to sub him off and give fresh legs like Diallo, Donny or even James, adrenalin pumping, a chance to win the game. Ole, of all people who have ever lived, should understand the massive impact that a substitute can make in a cup final.