What do we still need? Aka The never ending story



So...Todibo in January I'm guessing?

I hope that eventually we get Branthwaite or Inácio as well...but that's next summer or later presumably.
 
Very obvious that we need aggressive work done, especially on the outgoings department. Already seen plenty of rumors on who, but for me, when Ratcliffe comes in and sets his people, I'd really hope we look to get rid of all these guys (in whatever way). We need to balance the squad both in wages relative to roles & quality, and drop our age down to a level where we build over the next few years as we aren't going to be ready for a challenge until guys like Hojlund make the jump... Which is in a few years. So over the January and summer window, gotta get rid of these as priority:

Outgoings:
  • Varane
  • Maguire or Lindelof (Evans is short term deal and is an emergency option with a view to being a coach, so whatever). The other can stay as backup... Probably Lindelof due to wages.
  • Reguilon - Shaw and Malacia and Alvaro will be back
  • Amrabat - has shown he's not suited to prem IMO, and too old for a full signing
  • McTominay OR Casemiro. Depends on what we can get in and how we can replace them. If we can get good money for Case and can sign a starter level younger DM, then great. If we can only get someone who needs a bedding in period before taking over from Case, then Casemiro should stay and McTominay should leave.
  • Van de Beek
  • Eriksen - he's good, but not getting younger, and has limited time left and we need to address that role which means his time will reduce further
  • Antony
  • Sancho
  • Martial
  • Greenwood
There's obviously others, Mount vs Bruno for example wont work well together but mount is a new signing so won't be going anywhere (and is a good age and not a bad player), while Bruno can stay a top player and important until we are at the point where we are ready to step up to be a true title team, where he'd need replacing IMO. Casemiro at his age, depends on what we get offered. Think he can prolong his time as a top player in the right system. The RB situation isn't the best but isn't bad so can be pushed down the road until a more obvious target for a reasonable price comes out.

Goalkeeper is fine, starter and backup.

CB Martinez and 1 backup is fine, but we need a new starter asap (January, Todibo?) and another backup in the summer

RB as I said above, can be delayed til 2025.

LB is fine, starter and backups.

Midfield we should have Bruno, Mount, Mainoo, possibly Casemiro, and get a new guy in (u23, casemiro replacement, Andre?).

RW is a mess. Amad seems injury prone to me, and not suited to the prem and what we need (talented, should stay, but long term more central role). Antony and Sancho obviously not much needs saying. 1 top, classic winger type here is needed. Ready to start from day 1 and provide a big impact with big potential too.

LW is fine. Garnacho big potential and is a proper winger type. Rashford is a very good player in the right system, and is versatile and a goalscorer. Maybe won't be a starter and key forever, but there is plenty of time until this should be addressed.

CF - Hojlund is class, but needs an experienced rotation in there (not full starter ahead of him). Low cost experienced guy who can provide similar qualities like Taremi is a good shout.

So incomings would be something like:
  • Todibo (January)
  • Backup CB (summer, low cost)
  • Andre (summer, u23 DM for reasonable cost)
  • RW - summer, not sure who. I like Neto, but injuries are bad. Bardghi looked class, but a kid. Hard to say who.
  • Taremi - summer to replace Martial
 
Just from this game alone:

Dalot - Not good enough and enough mistakes have been made this season without him killing every attack.

Lindelof - Such a weak player mentally, physically and technically.

Eriksen - Done at this level, no strength or pace left in those legs.

McT - Just a nothing player, Fellani was more useful than this smash and grab merchant.

RW - Diallo could be the answer but I'd rather we went for a permanent upgrade, Antony & Rashford are useless on the right.

ST - Højlund is too young to have the weight of leading the line at 20, cover or a more experienced player is needed.

Suggestions:

RB - Frimpong, pace and ability to bomb up and down the wing while supplying some actual attacking vision in the final 3rd

CB - Tobido, a younger, fitter, ball playing CB that would likely walk into this 11 with ease

CM x2 - João Neves & Palinha would give us the right cover and balance between young and old

RW - Roony Bardghji or Javi Simon's, if we are sticking with Antony I'd rather have real talent to challenge his position

ST - Taremi, being the only viable option for the striker market for budgets is bleak at best.
 
RB - Sacha Boey
CB - Jean-Clair Todibo, Giorgio Scalvini, Antonio Silva, Jarrad Branthwaite
DM - Federico Redondo, Martin Zubimendi
CM - Khephren Thuram
RW - Takefusa Kubo, Nico Williams or Yeremy Pino
ST - On older cheap experienced striker to replace Martial and step in for Hojlund when needed, someone like Taremi?

Sell

GK - Onana, Bayindir, Heaton
RB - New RB, Wan Bissaka - (Sell Dalot)
CB - New CB, Martinez, Lindelof, Maguire? - (Sell Varane, release Evans)
LB - Shaw, Fernandez - (Sell Malacia)
RW - New RW, Antony, Amad? - (I'd rather Antony leave but I highly doubt we sell him, Pellistri)
DM - New DM, one of the CM's can step in like Thuram or Mainoo - (Sell Casemiro)
CM - New CM, Bruno, Mount, Mainoo - (Sell McTominay, Eriksen, DVB)
LW - Rashford, Garnacho
ST - New ST, Hojlund - (Sell Martial)

Something like this I think..
 
Out:

Lindelof
Maguire
McTominay
Amrabat
Donny
Bruno (Fund the whole summer)
Sancho
Antony
Martial

In:

Todibo
Vanderson
Douglas Luiz
Thuram
Cherki
Toney

I can dream
 
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My wishlist for January is a backup left sided centreback, a midfield playmaker who can impose himself physically and make a tackle, as well as an experienced striker.

I don't think we need more than that to do better, and to have something to build on in the summer.
 
First we need to get rid of a crucial list of players:

Jadon Sancho - out of bounds with Erik. Sell.
Anthony Martial - just sell.
DVB - release the man from his misery, he's never gonna get in the team.

That's the necessary outings.

The possibly, if good money comes about:

Varane - Saudis
Casemiro - likewise

That's it. We should just be happy with outings.

Zero incoming. Play what you have.
 
January outs should be:

-Varane, assuming an offer from the Saudis comes in
-Sancho, obviously
-Antony, if we can recoup half of what we spent on him. Trying to turn him into a proper United footballer at this point would be a sunk cost fallacy
-Donny

January ins should be:

-A young CB
-A striker
-A right winger
-Extend Reguilon's loan, if possible

Most of this won't happen, though
 
Its very annoying that we wouldn't be in for a mega offer to Villa for Douglas Luis. If he goes to Arsenal, to partner Rice in CM, it would be a massive buy for them.
 
A complete rebuilding, Chelsea-style, as well as an owner who cares (SJR), a proper CEO (Blanc) and DOF (Mitchell) is what we need. If Saudi clubs help us getting rid of Sancho, Varane and Antony, that would be amazing. Next season, young lads like Mainoo, Amad or Hannibal need to feature more often. And smart transfers, not too young, not too old and not too expensive but with quality (Todibo, M.Edwards, Florentino Luis, Frimpong, etc.) combined with one-two top transfers who makes us instantly better (too bad it looks like we're gonna lose Osimhen to Chelsea). In short, we need to change everything :D
 
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Some very impressive lists in this thread, but it’s very hard to see more than minor tinkering in January. And if minor tinkering is all that’s realistic in January then for me a proven striker is the top of the list. Hojlund has a great future but we’re putting way too much on his shoulders at this early stage of his United career.

Let’s go get rid of Sancho and Antony for sure, sell McTominay and probably Varane as well, though I’d like to know more about his fitness problem first.
 
lex talionis said:
Some very impressive lists in this thread, but it’s very hard to see more than minor tinkering in January. And if minor tinkering is all that’s realistic in January then for me a proven striker is the top of the list. Hojlund has a great future but we’re putting way too much on his shoulders at this early stage of his United career.

Let’s go get rid of Sancho and Antony for sure, sell McTominay and probably Varane as well, though I’d like to know more about his fitness problem first.
Click to expand...

Who is this proven striker? Doesn’t seem to any obvious, reasonably priced STs out there as we’re not forking out £70m for Toney.

Taremi is one but he’s 30/31 which is okay but not ideal.
 
Laurencio said:
My wishlist for January is a backup left sided centreback, a midfield playmaker who can impose himself physically and make a tackle, as well as an experienced striker.

I don't think we need more than that to do better, and to have something to build on in the summer.
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I'd rather have a true RW than an experienced striker. We basically play with a black hole on the right side most games currently where almost 0 creativeness or goals will come from. That's an issue. For example put Diaby or Doku in the spot Antony is in and suddenly our attack looks much more dangerous and versatile. As of now I don't think we'll do either though, so I'm praying Amad comes back soon and is given real minutes as he's our best chance of getting something from that spot
 
Longlivekeano said:
*Outs*
1. Sancho (50m)
2. Varane (15m)
3. Donny VDB (10m)
4. Martial (20m)

*In*
1. Todibo (50m)
2. Toney (50m)
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You're having a laugh if you think we'll get anywhere near those valuations. 20m for Martial with months left on his contract, who hasn't done anything (or remained reliably fit) in years? No chance.
 
daba said:
Who is this proven striker? Doesn’t seem to any obvious, reasonably priced STs out there as we’re not forking out £70m for Toney.

Taremi is one but he’s 30/31 which is okay but not ideal.
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Interesting question. There may be no proven strikers anywhere on the planet these days, such is the state of professional football.

I'm not suggesting he's the next Messi or even Ruud, but could we not have gone in for Ollie Watkins AND Rasmus Hojlund as Ollie's cover?

Yes of course we have other needs --- and in fact we can make a case for upgrading at every position even now, but based on what we knew last summer our overriding hole in the squad was striker, striker and cover for striker in fact, and yet we spent a fortune on Mount (whom I like but we didn't need) and on Onana (to replace the golden glove winner) -- two fine footballers but players we just didn't need.

What we know now but didn't know over the summer is that we desperate need to sell Sancho and Antony. It won't be easy, but if we we're willing to accept 20-25m for each they can be sold even with their wages. Casemiro and Varane are struggling this season but we have a promising prospect in Mainoo and for now we've got Amrabat (thank god it's only a loan) and Maguire has begun to put in decent shifts again, but there's no doubt we need a CDM and CB, but going into last summer two strikers were a higher priority than a CDM and a CB, although I am on record at the time urging that we bring in KMJ whom I believe wanted to come to United.
 
CB = Jarrad Brantwaite + Todibo/Guehi

CM = Daniel Boloca + Ivan Ilic/OihanSancet

RW = Morgan Gibbs White

ST = Viktor Gyökeres

RB = Dumfries
 
Think it is pretty obvious what areas of the squad need fixing over the next two windows:

RCB
Someone physical, powerful, fast and a good ball player. Todibo looks most likely and fits the bill (€50m)

LCB
A Licha back-up but also someone that can fill in as an LB or inverted LB. Theate at Rennes or Medina at Lens both look interesting (€40m)

RB
Tough one but I like the idea of us going for someone attacking like Frimpong with Mainoo dropping back to build up from the backline like he did against Arsenal pre-season (€40m)

DM
Another tough one and it really depends on what Erik wants. Two completely different options Andre Trindade (€40m) or Onana from Everton (€60m).

CM
New kid on the block, Joao Neves. Has everything you want from a box-to-box, price tag is anyone's guess but I think it would be steep (€70m minimum)

RW
Easy. Roony Bardghji, looks like a Hazard regen and at his apparent release clause price (€10m) it would be rude not to. Get it done in Jan with a loan back to Copehagen to see out the season.

ST
I know we've just dropped a load on Hojland but I think we should invest again here. Frustratingly a Zlatan or Cavani on a free would have been great now but there isn't one around. Going for another young prospect is too risky IMO (although if we were Marcos Leonardo looks good value) so someone like Santiago Gimenez who is on fire atm could be the best option (€50m)


ONLYYYY another €300m but this is exactly how City did it. Lots of good value buys at that £40-60m mark of young players yet to hit their prime.

The outs as always are fairly obvious but hopefully with new people running the show we can see better turnover here: Varane, Lindelof, Casemiro, Donny, Sancho, Martial, Antony - that is €150m to €200m sitting right there.
 
Aside from a mass overhaul of personal (ceo, DOF, recruitment and scouting etc) We need to do a Liverpool of last transfer window and completely reboot our midfield. It’s nowhere near good enough and completely unbalanced.

Mctominay has a few goals in him and is slightly useful, however, we are not competing with the very best with him in our midfield. That’s a fact.

Casemiro - try and recoup some of the money to Saudi, he isn’t going to improve any further, it’s all down hill from here.


eriksen - same as Casemiro.

defence - time for Maguire to go. Done alright this season but we’re not winning the biggest trophies with this guy.

Evans - thanks for efforts this season but same as above. Not competing with the top tier teams playing this guy.

lindelof - decent enough.. but Deserves to play more as he is a good player. Done his fair share for us but it’s time to move on. Go get a fresh challenge.

Varane - injury prone and only going to get worse. Time to move on.


striker - hojlund is potentially top top tier but Osimhen will be available next summer. That’s the level we need. Why not have both?


Our wingers are nowhere near good enough. Antony can’t use his right foot and rashford is SO inconsistent it’s hard to feel excited about either of them right now. Both good players with potential to do well/very well.. but we’re not seeing it week in week out. Would we ever be ruthless enough to sell both and replace? It’s unlikely. I love the guy at Napoli. Kvaratskhelia, him and Osimhen would be instant upgrades with an understanding of each other on the pitch but we all know we’re not ambitious enough for this/ won’t spend this type of money. That’s the calibre needed though if we’re ever getting competitive.

Martial has got to go. Donny has to go.

Amrabat shouldn’t be bought. Reguillon will probably go back to Tottenham or be sold elsewhere.

so yes.. there’s a lot. Replacing all those players with better players will also be very difficult.
 
daba said:
Think it is pretty obvious what areas of the squad need fixing over the next two windows:

RCB
Someone physical, powerful, fast and a good ball player. Todibo looks most likely and fits the bill (€50m)

LCB
A Licha back-up but also someone that can fill in as an LB or inverted LB. Theate at Rennes or Medina at Lens both look interesting (€40m)

RB
Tough one but I like the idea of us going for someone attacking like Frimpong with Mainoo dropping back to build up from the backline like he did against Arsenal pre-season (€40m)

DM
Another tough one and it really depends on what Erik wants. Two completely different options Andre Trindade (€40m) or Onana from Everton (€60m).

CM
New kid on the block, Joao Neves. Has everything you want from a box-to-box, price tag is anyone's guess but I think it would be steep (€70m minimum)

RW
Easy. Roony Bardghji, looks like a Hazard regen and at his apparent release clause price (€10m) it would be rude not to. Get it done in Jan with a loan back to Copehagen to see out the season.

ST
I know we've just dropped a load on Hojland but I think we should invest again here. Frustratingly a Zlatan or Cavani on a free would have been great now but there isn't one around. Going for another young prospect is too risky IMO (although if we were Marcos Leonardo looks good value) so someone like Santiago Gimenez who is on fire atm could be the best option (€50m)


ONLYYYY another €300m but this is exactly how City did it. Lots of good value buys at that £40-60m mark of young players yet to hit their prime.

The outs as always are fairly obvious but hopefully with new people running the show we can see better turnover here: Varane, Lindelof, Casemiro, Donny, Sancho, Martial, Antony - that is €150m to €200m sitting right there.
Click to expand...

And where does United get the money from?.
A debt of £1.09B as of June 30 and not counting the money spent in the summer.

We have to see right now, given the situation, in the medium and long term. Signing players who are out of contract and market opportunities, and giving opportunities to the academy.

Ndidi and Guido Rodríguez's contracts expire in June.
Nico Williams (RW, LW) is out of contract in June.

Look for players of that profile while lowering debt.
 
daba said:
Think it is pretty obvious what areas of the squad need fixing over the next two windows:

RCB
Someone physical, powerful, fast and a good ball player. Todibo looks most likely and fits the bill (€50m)

LCB
A Licha back-up but also someone that can fill in as an LB or inverted LB. Theate at Rennes or Medina at Lens both look interesting (€40m)

RB
Tough one but I like the idea of us going for someone attacking like Frimpong with Mainoo dropping back to build up from the backline like he did against Arsenal pre-season (€40m)

DM
Another tough one and it really depends on what Erik wants. Two completely different options Andre Trindade (€40m) or Onana from Everton (€60m).

CM
New kid on the block, Joao Neves. Has everything you want from a box-to-box, price tag is anyone's guess but I think it would be steep (€70m minimum)

RW
Easy. Roony Bardghji, looks like a Hazard regen and at his apparent release clause price (€10m) it would be rude not to. Get it done in Jan with a loan back to Copehagen to see out the season.

ST
I know we've just dropped a load on Hojland but I think we should invest again here. Frustratingly a Zlatan or Cavani on a free would have been great now but there isn't one around. Going for another young prospect is too risky IMO (although if we were Marcos Leonardo looks good value) so someone like Santiago Gimenez who is on fire atm could be the best option (€50m)


ONLYYYY another €300m but this is exactly how City did it. Lots of good value buys at that £40-60m mark of young players yet to hit their prime.

The outs as always are fairly obvious but hopefully with new people running the show we can see better turnover here: Varane, Lindelof, Casemiro, Donny, Sancho, Martial, Antony - that is €150m to €200m sitting right there.
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Martial is out of contract in the summer, we aren’t getting a fee for him at this stage or at least not very much if we do sell in January.

re Roony, I’d love to see how many people who say he reminds them of hazard have actually watched this 17 year old outside of this CL match with United. Who sits and watches Danish league matches? Be honest
 
If we buy one player this winter and get another one on loan, we would be lucky.

We are not the type of club that buy in Jan, even if we have made a bad summer window.

Think it'll be more a CB, but to be honest if we could get Licha, Shaw and Casemiro firing, we could be ok.
 
Feels like we need to add goal rather than defenders, even though our current defensive injury crisis is a bit of a balls
 
What we need ATM is a psychologist to help get these players mentally strong, deal with adversity. We also need a good clearout and club recruitment plan.
 
There are a multiple areas we need to improve on of course, but one glaringly obvious issue is our lack of call carriers in midfield.

Stumbled upon this video by Atlantis on YT and it’s made me think. Did we buy the wrong Cobham academy grad this summer?



In these sorts of cases you could say to “Ohhh it’s easy to say that in hindsight” but in the case of Mount I think a lot of people shared concerns / confusion over his signing.

There probably would have been uproar if we were linked / signed RLC, but his ball carrying is something we miss dearly. Ideally we’d want someone with that AND the ability to control the tempo of games, a la Frenkie De Jong or potentially Rice. But I think as a squad option I think he adds significantly more of what ETH wants from a midfielder that suits transitional football than McTominay for example.

Hopefully we find this player soon. Someone like Kouadio Kone seems to fit the bill of a progressive carrier and playmaker who is defensively solid, but I know he was injured all summer and only just returned to action. If he stays fit he could be one to watch in the summer.
 
I think Bruno, Martinez and Shaw are the only players you would realistically keep if you wanted to push Man City let alone win the league. Garnacho , Amad, Hojlund all massive potential. Mount , Mctominey, Lindelof /Maguire,AWB solid squad options. This club needs a massive overhaul.
 
Don_Johan14 said:
And where does United get the money from?.
A debt of £1.09B as of June 30 and not counting the money spent in the summer.

We have to see right now, given the situation, in the medium and long term. Signing players who are out of contract and market opportunities, and giving opportunities to the academy.

Ndidi and Guido Rodríguez's contracts expire in June.
Nico Williams (RW, LW) is out of contract in June.

Look for players of that profile while lowering debt.
Click to expand...

Ndidi was the hipsters choice years ago.Whats his form like? Guido is interesting. But is he any better than Amrabat ? Nico Williams on a free is smart move.
 
The-Mezzala said:
Ndidi was the hipsters choice years ago.Whats his form like? Guido is interesting. But is he any better than Amrabat ? Nico Williams on a free is smart move.
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I can't talk about Ndidi because I haven't seen him this year. He has been linked with several teams, including Barcelona.
I'm not saying signing him specifically, but a type of inexpensive and quality player. In the worst-case scenario, he will be a squad player and can be sold for a profit.

Federico Redondo's contract expires in December 2024, in the summer he can be signed at a very good price. Young, quality pivot.

Guido would come for free in the summer. Amrabat will cost €25M and, at the moment, he has not shown a sufficient level to play for United.

United must sell veteran and high-paying players and take advantage of market opportunities. It is a consequence of not getting the signings right, which are very expensive, in recent years.
 
Primex said:
Am asking for the long run, not now. I understand that it's still too early for such.
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But I mean it’s premature to even think that he’s gonna be the long term of the midfield. He’s played one admittedly good game but he’s an 18 year old. Let’s see him play half a season, then a season, then start making predictions. Give him time to breathe and grow rather than burdening him with cumbersome expectations
 
golden_blunder said:
But premature
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Nah, we need some hope around here. Let's assume he's a star.

Updated long-term depth chart:

ST: Hojlund, New #9
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
RW: Antony, Diallo
#10: Bruno, Mount
#8: CM1, CM2
#6: Mainoo, DM2
LB: Shaw, Malacia/Reguilon
RB: Dalot, Wan-Bissaka
LCB: Lisandro, LCB2
RCB: RCB1, Maguire
GK: Onana, GK2/Bayindir

Squad: 3rd striker (Hugill?), Pellistri, Mejbri, Alvaro, Lindelof/Evans, 3rd keeper.

No idea if Bayindir is good enough, so just the 6 signings, not counting a 3rd striker (literally anyone with a pulse on a free) and 3rd keeper. Maybe down to 5 if Casemiro stays for one more year.

Sell/stop paying:
Sancho, Martial, Eriksen, McTominay, Eriksen, Varane, one of the backup LBs.

Probably impossible to sign 3 midfielders though, so maybe one final year of Casemiro and sign 2 quality midfielders, one who can sit and pass as a #6 and a physical box to box #8 who can do a bit of everything.

4 backup signings (#9, LCB2, CM2, DM1) should be affordable (say 30M per spot with a bit higher at striker and a bit lower for one of the midfielders) and then 3 massive signings (RCB1, CM1) more like 70M per, so 260M spent but maybe 60M recouped in fees from McTominay, Sancho and Van De Beek for a 200M summer.
 
NoPace said:
Nah, we need some hope around here. Let's assume he's a star.

Updated long-term depth chart:

ST: Hojlund, New #9
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
RW: Antony, Diallo
#10: Bruno, Mount
#8: CM1, CM2
#6: Mainoo, DM2
LB: Shaw, Malacia/Reguilon
RB: Dalot, Wan-Bissaka
LCB: Lisandro, LCB2
RCB: RCB1, Maguire
GK: Onana, GK2/Bayindir

Squad: 3rd striker (Hugill?), Pellistri, Mejbri, Alvaro, Lindelof/Evans, 3rd keeper.

No idea if Bayindir is good enough, so just the 6 signings, not counting a 3rd striker (literally anyone with a pulse on a free) and 3rd keeper. Maybe down to 5 if Casemiro stays for one more year.

Sell/stop paying:
Sancho, Martial, Eriksen, McTominay, Eriksen, Varane, one of the backup LBs.

Probably impossible to sign 3 midfielders though, so maybe one final year of Casemiro and sign 2 quality midfielders, one who can sit and pass as a #6 and a physical box to box #8 who can do a bit of everything.

4 backup signings (#9, LCB2, CM2, DM1) should be affordable (say 30M per spot with a bit higher at striker and a bit lower for one of the midfielders) and then 3 massive signings (RCB1, CM1) more like 70M per, so 260M spent but maybe 60M recouped in fees from McTominay, Sancho and Van De Beek for a 200M summer.
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After 1 match? Knock yourself out.
Let us know when you’re back on planet earth again
 
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