The INEOS takeover would be the only chance to do such a complete rebuilding without the need to explain too much. I hope we dont miss this chance.
What do we still need? Aka The never ending story
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
What we need is to finally do a proper and ruthless clear out in our squad. We need to shake up and rattle the players. Show them that this is no place for being complacent.
All of the below players have contracts that are either expiring at the end of this season or are entering their final year come summer (including their +1 optional year):
Heaton, Evans, Requilon and Amrabat's contracts ends this summer, Heaton might be worth keeping as a 3rd choice but the rest can leave (obviously early days with Amrabat but must show signicant improvements).
Williams, Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, A Fernandez, Mejbri and Martial has an optional year til 2025. We should only trigger the +1 year for Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Fernandez and Mejbri with the ambition of selling them and we shoud listen to any offers that may come or wost case keep them as squad players for a season. Same goes for Varane and Eriksen where it's our last chance to salvage any transfer fees.
On top of the aformentioned players theres the players that are not part of ETHs plans; obviously Sancho but also Donny and even Pellistri judging by their limited playing time.
Add the "marketable" players, i.e. those where we received respectable offers this summer in Maguire and McTominay and we're are ready to properly rebuild the squad.
With regards to the CB-position I'd say that we should limit ourselves to only selling two out of Lindelof/Maguire/Varane.
Out of all these outgoings I'm guessing that we could realistically generate sales of somewhere in the region of about £175m, maybe more if the Saudi clubs are willing to bail us out.
That leaves us with this senior squad, and IMO these immidaite needs:
GK: Onana, Bayindir, Heaton
RB: Dalot, new RB
LB: Shaw, Malacia
CB: Martinez, new CB, new CB, Lindelof/Maguire/Varane, Will Fish
DM/CM/AM: Casemiro, Bruno, Mount, Mainoo, Gore, new DM, new CM
RW: Antony, Amad, new versatile RW/LW
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
ST: Hojlund, new ST
With all the outgoings stated above these seven signings provides us with a squad of 26 players.
Who all these new signings are is a good question, but I'm personally tired of the "past their peak"-signings and I believe that we must look at players in the age bracket 20-25 and look at longer term, and equally important that we must keep the wages reasonable with more performance-related bonuses/focus. If they end up not meeting our requirements (on and off the field) down the road, a player on reasonable wages are a whole lot easier to sell. As we probably
All of the below players have contracts that are either expiring at the end of this season or are entering their final year come summer (including their +1 optional year):
Heaton, Evans, Requilon and Amrabat's contracts ends this summer, Heaton might be worth keeping as a 3rd choice but the rest can leave (obviously early days with Amrabat but must show signicant improvements).
Williams, Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, A Fernandez, Mejbri and Martial has an optional year til 2025. We should only trigger the +1 year for Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Fernandez and Mejbri with the ambition of selling them and we shoud listen to any offers that may come or wost case keep them as squad players for a season. Same goes for Varane and Eriksen where it's our last chance to salvage any transfer fees.
On top of the aformentioned players theres the players that are not part of ETHs plans; obviously Sancho but also Donny and even Pellistri judging by their limited playing time.
Add the "marketable" players, i.e. those where we received respectable offers this summer in Maguire and McTominay and we're are ready to properly rebuild the squad.
With regards to the CB-position I'd say that we should limit ourselves to only selling two out of Lindelof/Maguire/Varane.
Out of all these outgoings I'm guessing that we could realistically generate sales of somewhere in the region of about £175m, maybe more if the Saudi clubs are willing to bail us out.
That leaves us with this senior squad, and IMO these immidaite needs:
GK: Onana, Bayindir, Heaton
RB: Dalot, new RB
LB: Shaw, Malacia
CB: Martinez, new CB, new CB, Lindelof/Maguire/Varane, Will Fish
DM/CM/AM: Casemiro, Bruno, Mount, Mainoo, Gore, new DM, new CM
RW: Antony, Amad, new versatile RW/LW
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
ST: Hojlund, new ST
With all the outgoings stated above these seven signings provides us with a squad of 26 players.
Who all these new signings are is a good question, but I'm personally tired of the "past their peak"-signings and I believe that we must look at players in the age bracket 20-25 and look at longer term, and equally important that we must keep the wages reasonable with more performance-related bonuses/focus. If they end up not meeting our requirements (on and off the field) down the road, a player on reasonable wages are a whole lot easier to sell. As we probably
I read posts like this every season. We are poor sellers. The McTominay and Maguire situation in the summer is proof of that. Also, it seems modern players are more concerned about their salaries than minutes. People like Hannibal, Fernandez and Pellistri can be shifted because they're on reasonable wages but the likes of McTominay, Maguire, vdB, Martial, Lindelof, Wan Bissaka and Sancho are all being paid far more than they're worth.
Which clubs do you believe will buy those players and match their salaries?
I completely agree regarding us being poor seller, we're never ruthless enough, and yes I also believe that it boils down to us overpaying in wages and providing our players with zero (economic) incentive to leave. However, as you say Hannibal, Fernandez and Pellistri are on reasonable wages so should be less problematic then the others.
Regarding your question on who would buy these players my gut feeling/unqualified guess would be that vdB goes back to Ajax for next to nothing, Lindelof to upper table/bigger clubs in Spain or Italy, Wan Bissaka to a mid table PL-club and all three of them are on comparable wages to their prospective buyers' players. Maguire and McT had offers/buyers from the PL pursuing them this summer and my impression is that it was actually us that declined the offers, not the players, hence it's possible to sell them if the club is motivated.
Sancho is the most tricky, we would have to take a massive financial hit on that one - I doubt that we will get anything more than like 25m for him and probably have to pay severance.
We will obviously just release Martial.
McT is on 60K P/W, he is one of the lowest paid of our first team squad,
Sell Casemiro, Varane, Sancho, Maguire, Martial
Buy RB, CB, DMC, RW, FC
Buy RB, CB, DMC, RW, FC
Both are out of contract soon
We need impact on goals, we need Ivan Toney imo. He would make it harder for teams to defend against us. I would go with him and Hojland up front considering we have no great width on the right , underneath them can be Bruno, i think the goal today will do wonders for him. Garnacho on the left, Amrabat on holding and Mainoo to the right (or flip those two). I just don’t see Antony doing anything on the right wing. Pellistri i have more faith in but the way teams bully us in midfield I’d rather the extra body there. Dalot is useless, so yeah attacking RB would help us with width, Shaw when he’s back or Reguilon creating the width to feed Hojland and Toney, and Bruno contributing with the through ball and pushing the ball further up the pitch.
so, this is what we need in January. We have no width since Rashford cuts in, Garnacho gives it on the left but our right side the newfullback should over lap mainoo or Bruno if he drifts there. Toney will score here
Ok then, McTominay may be shiftable but we'll probably overvalue him like we did last summer.
We desperately need goals from somewhere. One thing Ferguson did that not so many top managers seem to really do (at our club particularly) is he bought players that scored goals in whatever division they were in. van Nistelrooy scored TONS of goals in the Eredivisie, Sheringham, Cantona and Cole all scored goals in the Premier League, and so on and so forth. There was really nothing to suggest Hojlund could score 20+ goals in the Premier League.
We are so focussed on metrics like distance covered, pass percentage etc that we are forgetting the fundamentals at the minute. Jarrod Bowen is scoring right now and he's the right age for a move. I don't like him partivularly myself and think he'd be too expensive for what he provides but Ivan Toney scored a LOT of goals for Brentford. Players like those would arguably move us up the table. Jack Clarke is scoring and playing extremely well at Sunderland and linked up well with Amad Diallo when he was there. Vangelis Pavlidis has scored fairly consistently in the Eredivisie.
I don't think any of those players would cost a fortune and they'd all be worth a gamble. It would be hard for them to be any worse than our front three have been this season.
We are so focussed on metrics like distance covered, pass percentage etc that we are forgetting the fundamentals at the minute. Jarrod Bowen is scoring right now and he's the right age for a move. I don't like him partivularly myself and think he'd be too expensive for what he provides but Ivan Toney scored a LOT of goals for Brentford. Players like those would arguably move us up the table. Jack Clarke is scoring and playing extremely well at Sunderland and linked up well with Amad Diallo when he was there. Vangelis Pavlidis has scored fairly consistently in the Eredivisie.
I don't think any of those players would cost a fortune and they'd all be worth a gamble. It would be hard for them to be any worse than our front three have been this season.
I miss the time I was still optimistic bringing Frenkie in was feasible..
Go in for João Palhinha in January. Give Fulham McTominay as a part-ex.
Every hear of FFP
City dont follow it and it gets brushed under the carpet! Lets just do the sameEvery hear of FFP
. Sick of this squad we need to clear the deadwood or get left further behind.Or realityEvery hear of FFP
Its a fantasy wish list. I obviously don’t expect the club to do it. But those signings would be a step in the right direction
Miracle. That´s what we need.
It's 2021 again. We still need a DM, CB, RW, RB and CM.
Move on Casemiro, Varane, Antony, Sancho, Lindelof, Amrabat, Dalot as soon as we can.
Move on Casemiro, Varane, Antony, Sancho, Lindelof, Amrabat, Dalot as soon as we can.
Not to mention a left back, left winger and an experienced striker. Rashford and Shaw are long term write offs, along with Bruno, they’ve been through multiple managers and failed to deliver other than some purple patches. Any manager who continues to rely on them is bound to fail .
Watching Spurs midfield of Bissouma & Sarr yesterday, we have absolutely no-one in our midfield who can compete physically with them.
True but we're stuck with them on new contracts for now.
Is only a loan
Sell/Send: Bruno, Anthony, Martial, Varane, Casemiro, Sancho, Lindelof, Amrabat
Buy/Loan/Promote/Starter: Lukeba, Scalvini, Cherki, Gift/Boniface, Zubimendi/Caqueret, Mainoo, Gore, Amad
Buy/Loan/Promote/Starter: Lukeba, Scalvini, Cherki, Gift/Boniface, Zubimendi/Caqueret, Mainoo, Gore, Amad
We basically need a whole new team.
Again.
Again.
Makes me wish we had someone like Ugarte in midfield for us. We seriously lack in physicality and aggression in midfield to dominate teams.
So which midfielder are we going for in Jan then? No way we're putting all the eggs in the Casemiro bucket.
Sign two physically fit midfielders who can be good playmakers, and two experienced strikers to help Hojlund - sell Martial, and probably Sancho to fund it. It's roughly a 50-60% chance of a well thought out signing working out anyway, so might as well not gamble on "the one" signing working out.
My god, I stop reading after sell Bruno, but had a second eye on Cherki and Caqueret. Horrible players from the last team of Ligue 1, but for sure will improve us...;
IF, we can sell him, I would go for Palhinha replacing him, even if he will cost a lot.
IF we can sell Varane, my choice wouldn't be on Todibo, so I don't know who can complement Licha and be a leader to our team.
Don't know much about Todibo what's your issue with him not good enough long term or doesn't quite fit the team right now .
Onana
New RB New CB Martinez Shaw
New CM New CM
New RW Bruno Rashford/Garnacho
New CF/Hojlund
So ideally we need:
Right back
Centre back
Two complementary CMs
Right winger
Centre forward
Six players
New RB New CB Martinez Shaw
New CM New CM
New RW Bruno Rashford/Garnacho
New CF/Hojlund
So ideally we need:
Right back
Centre back
Two complementary CMs
Right winger
Centre forward
Six players
I think you realistically could argue we need replacements for Martinez & Shaw as well.
Shaw's fitness is too unreliable, and Martinez has missed probably missed as many games for us as he's played.
Sign Todibo , Nicolas Gonzalez and Taremi in Jan.
Sign new Left Back, Branthwaite , Two midfielders in the summer. Sell Mctom, Varane, Casemiro, Lindelof, Malacia or Shaw,Martial, Sancho and Antony get a director of football.
Sign new Left Back, Branthwaite , Two midfielders in the summer. Sell Mctom, Varane, Casemiro, Lindelof, Malacia or Shaw,Martial, Sancho and Antony get a director of football.
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Barring loans I doubt we will be signing anyone in January. There’s too much upheaval at the club and until that gets resolved murtough won’t know how much budget or indeed if he has a job by then not to mention do they still aim for ten Haag profiles
Because Todibo is good with the ball and read the game well, but I am not sure this is the type of player we need to complement Licha.
I mean, we may need a ball player, of course, but somebody also in the fight, which is not that much Todibo
Yeah I was trying to be somewhat realistic though
We need someone who can actually make good signings for one whether that is tha manager, scouts, DOF. We have made so many poor signings with nearly every maanger. I do read reports about them being blocked on targets, stuff about not sanctioning small fee for Haaland etc etc.
Some of the good games watched this season have made me sick as watching so many youngish and young players doing well in games that thought we shold sign over the last few seasons before moving to there clubs.....
Vicario £17.2m
Livaramento £40m
Romero £55m
Bissouma £25m
Enzo Fernandez £107m
Bentancaur £19m
Cole Palmer £40M
£300m odd, looks a lot of money...then look at what we have spent
Onana £47.2m
Dalot £19m
Varane £34M
Casemeiro £60m
Amrabat if permanent £30m
Mount £55m
Antony £82m
Cost more and Ten Hag signed most of them too and thats even including a premiership record fee by a long way for Enzo Fernandez. This is just players other clubs in our league have signed I wanted us to at points, there ar emany others and that isnt even inculding players gone to other places in Europe or not even moved.
No guarantee the first group of players wold succeed here, but especially considering the ages, no doubt in my mind which group I would rather have. It isnt just our failure to move on players, or the glazers, or the structure....we have bought really badly. We spent twice what we needed to on a gk, Spent nigh on £100m on two 30year olds, spent £80m on a player with one years experience in Europe who wasnt setting the world on fire to warrant it, made a weird signing in Mont.....terrrible business.
That is why we are in just the same position as we have been nearly every season the last decade. For me there isnt even a five a side team number of players that should be nailed on first eleven players and there are well into doble figrures worth of players I dont think should be here be that are over paid and over rated star players who are jst good players and arent even consitently playing good, players that dont fit what we need, players with the wrong attitde and worst of all....several players who are simply not good enogh for the shirt and quite a few have been here several seasons.
What we need is literally about 15-18out and yet again about 8-9 players in....that is how far away we are, and its how far away we have been most seasons in the last decade now. Talk of a 3year period, and it takes stages.....that never happens if you dont get the first stage right season after season
Some of the good games watched this season have made me sick as watching so many youngish and young players doing well in games that thought we shold sign over the last few seasons before moving to there clubs.....
Vicario £17.2m
Livaramento £40m
Romero £55m
Bissouma £25m
Enzo Fernandez £107m
Bentancaur £19m
Cole Palmer £40M
£300m odd, looks a lot of money...then look at what we have spent
Onana £47.2m
Dalot £19m
Varane £34M
Casemeiro £60m
Amrabat if permanent £30m
Mount £55m
Antony £82m
Cost more and Ten Hag signed most of them too and thats even including a premiership record fee by a long way for Enzo Fernandez. This is just players other clubs in our league have signed I wanted us to at points, there ar emany others and that isnt even inculding players gone to other places in Europe or not even moved.
No guarantee the first group of players wold succeed here, but especially considering the ages, no doubt in my mind which group I would rather have. It isnt just our failure to move on players, or the glazers, or the structure....we have bought really badly. We spent twice what we needed to on a gk, Spent nigh on £100m on two 30year olds, spent £80m on a player with one years experience in Europe who wasnt setting the world on fire to warrant it, made a weird signing in Mont.....terrrible business.
That is why we are in just the same position as we have been nearly every season the last decade. For me there isnt even a five a side team number of players that should be nailed on first eleven players and there are well into doble figrures worth of players I dont think should be here be that are over paid and over rated star players who are jst good players and arent even consitently playing good, players that dont fit what we need, players with the wrong attitde and worst of all....several players who are simply not good enogh for the shirt and quite a few have been here several seasons.
What we need is literally about 15-18out and yet again about 8-9 players in....that is how far away we are, and its how far away we have been most seasons in the last decade now. Talk of a 3year period, and it takes stages.....that never happens if you dont get the first stage right season after season
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Apparently open heart surgery is needed but was ignored, brushed under the carpet and we just hired incompetent surgeons instead (Arnold & Murtough).
We need a footballing structure before looking at more footballers.
Footballing structure > Identity/culture > Players that fit the identity/culture > Manager for said identity/culture
We need a footballing structure before looking at more footballers.
Footballing structure > Identity/culture > Players that fit the identity/culture > Manager for said identity/culture
We need restart. Wipe-out current passengers and start all over with players who actually give a shit. And who fit some coherent system, hopefully.
Currently, I would only keep Hojlund, Garnacho, Licha, AWB, maybe Onana. I would give a chance to Amad and Mainoo. And recruit all new squad of cheaper players who can grow into good players.
Not sure about Bruno. He is our best player right now, but manager should decide if he is the player to build the new team around.
P.S. none of this will happen, unless Ratcliffe has same attitude and somehow Ten Hag agrees
Currently, I would only keep Hojlund, Garnacho, Licha, AWB, maybe Onana. I would give a chance to Amad and Mainoo. And recruit all new squad of cheaper players who can grow into good players.
Not sure about Bruno. He is our best player right now, but manager should decide if he is the player to build the new team around.
P.S. none of this will happen, unless Ratcliffe has same attitude and somehow Ten Hag agrees
A restart is what we need. Miss Europe for a year, do a proper cleanse of the squad and rebuild. We’ve been “rebuilding” for years but have take the completely wrong approach with short term signing after short term signing.
Bruno is a difficult one, but I can’t help but feel we’d be a better team without him. Not in the short term, but long term yes.