What in the world are they spraying? (Spoiler: Nothing)

Ecstasio

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Yes I know the vast majority of people will be and are sceptical about this subject. Hardly surprising as it is often misrepresented by tin hat wielders. This documentary however might make you question the veracity of the chem-trail phenomena / theory. The whole film is packed with leading field experts and in my opinion very credible testimony.
If you're now thinking that you don't want or have time to watch 97 minutes of documentary then just watch the first ten minutes and see if it piques your interest. I think it should.






Thoughts?
 

Scholesgoals

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So let me get this straight.

people actually believe that planes spray chemicals into the air to control our behaviour?

You do realise this makes the whole marketing and advertisement industry just a multi billion pound red herring?

My favourite criticism of these all powerful conspiracy theories was penned by the south park guys - Do you honestly believe that they would let you live if they were really all that powerful and you were the only one ot figure it out?
 

Ecstasio

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So you are saying that all the professors, field experts, scientists, politicians, doctors (and a long etc.) in the video are actually lying about it? It's possible sure, but for what reason would they do that? I mean they gain nothing and put their own professional reputation on the line. These are people from all over the world......are they all lying or making it up for fun? Are the results they publish also made up? As I asked before, if that's the case then what is their agenda?
As for it being a conspiracy theory. Well sure I guess it's a theory but only as long as you don't read the lab results and solid scientific proof that something is wrong with the air and water samples. After that, if you still think it is theory then of course that's your prerogative. I'm sure the South Park producers have a much more solid scientific reason for all those results.
 

KingEric7

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There's a lot of this sort of thing going about the internet, but it's very difficult to even discuss given that we are in no position to do so. Another thing is that this sort of talk can only ever end up with some sort of Illuminati orientated discussion, which won't end well.

For what it's worth, the biggest conspiricy theory seems to centre around that of fluorides being contained within pretty much everything we consume (and in these chemtrails), though people will point towards this being a cleaning agent. The consequences of this are that the pineal gland (the gland in the very centre of our brain that produces and secretes de-methyl-tryptophan) becomes calcified, and crystals begin to form around it, which then shrinks it and renders it ineffective. The reasoning for this is supposedly that, as the brain is considered something of an interface from which consciousness emerges, and that de-methyl-tryptophan is the strongest hallucinogenic and most psycho-active chemical known to man, we are being deprived in some way or another of certain states of consciousness that would detatch us from this society.

It's an interesting one whatever your take on it. DMT is one of the few chemicals that can actually pass the blood-brain barrier, and the fact that it is sucked through is indicative of some sort of importance, not to mention that the pineal gland's location (the centre of the brain) highlights that it was once an integral part of the brain. It was often considered bizarre that a philosopher as sceptical as Rene Descartes considered this gland to be so important (he thought it to be the 'seat of the soul'), given his previous line of thinking, and his inability to explain how the connection between the extended matter of the pineal gland and the unextended substance of the soul was possible or even possible to argue didn't help his case.

Rick Straussman's book, "DMT: The Spirit Molecule", gives a fantastic, in-depth account as to the significance and history of DMT. It's fascinating how it played such a part in the lives in the more shamanic orientated civilisations, not to mention when you consider how this was done. Ayahuasca, a brew which makes ingestion of DMT from natural sources possible, was something of a ritual in such civilisations, and is still taken today. In order to make this, you have to have some sort of DMT based component and a MAOI (mono-amino oxidase inhibitor), which then stops the DMT breaking down into its constituent elements in the stomach (who on earth had the idea to mix these plants?! :lol:). When this happens, it can then pass the blood-brain barrier, and the result of this, according to most who have taken it, is a completely unrivalled spiritual experience.

If fluorides do stop this from occurring naturally in the human brain, then I find this interesting. However, there's nothing to be taken from this that this is an intentional process. Perhaps that's me trying to comfort myself, as the inverse scenario is a pretty fecked up one.
 

Ecstasio

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Aluminium Oxide. That's the biggest factor in all the analysis being done on persistent contrails. I am having a series of local tests done where I live. I'll publish the results, negative or positive, when I have them within a fortnight or so.
The fluorides you mentioned, as far as I know are being introduced via the municipal water supplies within established safety limits. The trouble is that it is accumulating over time and ends up spreading naturally throughout the water table. I think that's an entirely different issue to the the one being debated in the documentary.
I don't see why any debate of this nature should spiral into the realms of "illuminati" theory. I see it as more as a socio-economic issue. The potential health risks are enormous but the potential financial gain is also enormous.
I am on the fence about it, that's why I am having the lab tests done. I'll at least get peace of mind from it. I would hate to find out years from now the my little girl is sick because of it and I had done nothing to at least try and stop it, if it is actually happening at all.


Anyone inclined to test their own rain water can do so pretty easily and cheaply with a home test kit like this one:
Aluminium Test Kit: Aluminium Testing, Home Aluminium Poisoning Tests

Anyone feeling ill with a variety of hard to diagnose symptoms might want to try this out too:
Hair Analysis Test UK: Hair Mineral Analysis, Heavy Metal Hair Analysis


Even if you really do not believe in any of this then doing the test is still worthwhile. You can after all argue your point and rub it in the faces of others should you get negative test results.
 

Mister Jeebus

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I couldn't manage more than 12 minutes of that film. Anyway, you should be aware that hair analysis for multiple chemicals is at best dubious and lacking in validity. At worst, a commercial hair analysis kit like the one you propose to buy that claims: "Based on the hair mineral analysis, nutritional and therapeutic measures can be recommended to correct the imbalances and aid the removal of toxins from the body after hair testing", and conveniently sells precisely the nutritional products that you are 'lacking', is exploitative and, frankly, a scam.

Oh well, caveat emptor.
 

Red Defence

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I'm only 10 mins into the video (will have to watch the rest later) but who is flying these planes that are spraying stuff? Does anyone know someone who flies one? Surely they know what they're spraying.

There's quite a few contrails appear in the sky over where I live, at least twice a week, so there must be a fair few of these pilots around.
 

Red Defence

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I'm quite confused by all this contrail stuff.

It's does seem that something is being sprayed up there. Planes come over and their trails dissipate quickly, yet others come over criss-crossing and their trails stay for hours.

Why doesn't someone come out and ask the government directly what this stuff is and why they are doing it?
 

Ecstasio

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I couldn't manage more than 12 minutes of that film. Anyway, you should be aware that hair analysis for multiple chemicals is at best dubious and lacking in validity. At worst, a commercial hair analysis kit like the one you propose to buy that claims: "Based on the hair mineral analysis, nutritional and therapeutic measures can be recommended to correct the imbalances and aid the removal of toxins from the body after hair testing", and conveniently sells precisely the nutritional products that you are 'lacking', is exploitative and, frankly, a scam.

Oh well, caveat emptor.
Not sure why you could not manage more than 12 minutes, it's hardly bad viewing but then that's your choice. Some people think neutrality is a good thing. I'd call it Ostrich syndrome but that's just my opinion.
As for the test kits, obviously they're not comparable to a real lab test. That's why I am having tests run at a local lab. I just thought they'd be a good starting point. The aluminium test particularly would be fairly accurate even in that form and would at least serve as an indicator of whether a lab test is warranted or not.
 

Ecstasio

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I'm only 10 mins into the video (will have to watch the rest later) but who is flying these planes that are spraying stuff? Does anyone know someone who flies one? Surely they know what they're spraying.

There's quite a few contrails appear in the sky over where I live, at least twice a week, so there must be a fair few of these pilots around.
Watch it and decide who you think it is. There are plenty of indicators and even some subtle admission within the documentary. Assuming it is happening at all then assuming again that the pilots know what they're doing, it does not mean they would know the agenda/objective. They could simply be told it's chaff or geo-engineering with a positive goal.
 

Ecstasio

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I'm quite confused by all this contrail stuff.

It's does seem that something is being sprayed up there. Planes come over and their trails dissipate quickly, yet others come over criss-crossing and their trails stay for hours.

Why doesn't someone come out and ask the government directly what this stuff is and why they are doing it?
People have asked. Thousands of people in fact. Lots of them from the scientific community as they're often the first to see something is going on when their respective tests on soil, air, water samples are giving such high levels of toxic heavy metals.
It's addressed in assembly in the documentary. It's been addressed on numerous occasions in many science conventions and political summits. It's been addressed in the EU parliament and in UN meetings.

European Parliament: question on aircraft condensation trails which no longer only contain water

Strasbourg, France - By Erik Meijer (GUE/NGL)



So you see, asking or demanding answers is not the problem. The problem is that the answers are not forthcoming and all the while the problem seems to be increasing. I live in a "sunny" part of Spain in an area known as the Coast of Light. Recently (last few years have been getting progressively worse) you only see a nice blue sky and clean light penetration if you are up before 9am. Any later and the shear number of trails will have eclipsed 80% of the sky with a misty white blanket.
 

Wibble

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FFS it is just contrails (water vapor). I can't believe that so many people believe this sort of utter tripe. The idea that commercial planes are routinely used to spray something into the atmosphere without the new leaking out almost instantly is laughable at best. You would be knee deep in aero engineers with photos and equipment and video and actual planes with actual spraying equipment etc etc etc

You lot need to get out more.
 

Wibble

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Loon: Dear Pentagon, I demand that you tell me what you are spraying on us from commercial airlines. I know that you are doing this because I can see the spray trails.
Pentagon: Dear Citizen, the trails you see are simply airplane contrails, water vapor. We are not spraying anything on you.
Loon: COVER UP - WHY WONT YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION? I WANT THE TRUTH.
 

nimic

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You're just a part of the problem, Wibble! Water vapor? I'm no expert, but that doesn't look like water vapor to me. Have you ever seen that kind of missi- I mean, eeeh, water vapour before?

I haven't.

Don't be so narrowminded.
 

Wibble

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If contrails are in fact persisting longer than previously (something that I think is far from proven) and not just because contrails are more noticable due to the huge increase in plane traffic, then it will simply be weather related because contrails dissipate much slower when humidity is high - possibly as a result of global warming. It could also be that global warming is causing greater cloud cover which in turn will mean more distrails which people may mistake for contrails/chemtrails.

Ironically I'll bet that many of the same people who believe any old conspiracy theory bollocks also think that global warming is a myth despite the overwhelming evidence.
 

Twisted_Woody

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If contrails are in fact persisting longer than previously (something that I think is far from proven) and not just because contrails are more noticable due to the huge increase in plane traffic, then it will simply be weather related because contrails dissipate much slower when humidity is high - possibly as a result of global warming. It could also be that global warming is causing greater cloud cover which in turn will mean more distrails which people may mistake for contrails/chemtrails.

Ironically I'll bet that many of the same people who believe any old conspiracy theory bollocks also think that global warming is a myth despite the overwhelming evidence.
Logic.

I need a Ban Him/Her picture.
 

mjs020294

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Did the Internet cause a large jump in the number of Loons in the world or did it just give them a forum and they are more visible now?
 

Mister Jeebus

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Not sure why you could not manage more than 12 minutes, it's hardly bad viewing but then that's your choice. Some people think neutrality is a good thing. I'd call it Ostrich syndrome but that's just my opinion.
As for the test kits, obviously they're not comparable to a real lab test. That's why I am having tests run at a local lab. I just thought they'd be a good starting point. The aluminium test particularly would be fairly accurate even in that form and would at least serve as an indicator of whether a lab test is warranted or not.
I couldn't manage more than 12 minutes of those simpleton "journalists" who clearly suffer Dunning-Kruger bias, especially when interpreting innocent statements made at that conference by presenters as evidence of an evil conspiracy. The film itself suffers from the childish spooky music and repetition of sound bites in order to suggest malevolence typical of polemical agenda-driven films like this or Loose Change.

Hair analysis for heavy metals like aluminium is not particularly reliable or valid whether performed at home or in a commercial lab. I would be suspicious of a commercial lab that purported to claim otherwise. If it's something that you're particularly concerned with then getting urine samples analysed would be preferable, or go a step further and get blood analysis done. At least there is proven validity and established norms for those.
 

Ecstasio

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“Thanks for the info. Due to the monetary and political interests associated with geoengineering programs, there is a tremendous effort to keep people in the dark and unaware of these ongoing programs. Contrail Science is believed to be one of the websites protecting these interests. Many believe it is one of the many well funded government run websites that have been working tirelessly to suppress the truths that have been coming to light. Thanks again for your interest and support.

Sincerely,
Michael J. Murphy”

Really, as I have said before, I am literally undecided on this whole debate. The common sense and optimistic part of me says there's no way it can be happening and yet I still cannot grasp why so many people from all over the world would make it up and back up their claims with false evidence. I can't help but be suspicious and to be honest I am sick of seeing the sky around here full of these damn trails, be them chem or con. They shouldn't be forming and persisting unless above some 4000m and they really aren't that high usually, at least not where I am. I am not in any heavy flight path. I don't live close to any major airports. Why do we get one, two or three days a week of ridiculously high amounts of contrails and the others days none at all? Those are the things that are making me dubious. I'd rather be safe than sorry so I will get the tests done and honestly if they're all clear, I'll be the first to help combat and clarify the chemtrail claims as myth. I just feel an open mind is always the safest policy.
 

Red Defence

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If contrails are in fact persisting longer than previously (something that I think is far from proven) and not just because contrails are more noticable due to the huge increase in plane traffic, then it will simply be weather related because contrails dissipate much slower when humidity is high - possibly as a result of global warming. It could also be that global warming is causing greater cloud cover which in turn will mean more distrails which people may mistake for contrails/chemtrails.

Ironically I'll bet that many of the same people who believe any old conspiracy theory bollocks also think that global warming is a myth despite the overwhelming evidence.
Not to sure about all this.

After seeing something on here a while back I paid attention to the sky. They start coming over here about 7-7.30am. Some planes (A) come over and their contrails are still present at lunchtime. Yet others..B.. come over at the same time as A and their contrails disappear almost as soon as they appear. This is in a virtually clear sky, cloudwise. In the end the sky is just a huge criss cross of contrails. In the middle of these contrails a B plane may come over and it's trail will dissipate as quickly as before.

Both sets of planes (A and B) are visible with the naked eye and seem to be flying at roughly the same height. If anything though I would say that the A type (the ones leaving the contrails) are lower. The marks they leave are different to any type of cloud structure in that they are very linear and almost stretch as far as the eye can see. They come from the plane because I've stood there and watched them, not from clouds.

When I was younger and outside with my father......he was a great lover of aircraft.....he would often talk to me about the planes as they flew over. These contrails certainly didn't last as long then. They seemed to disappear within a minute or two at the most. Sometimes you would see the odd one that took a little longer, maybe 5-10 minutes.

I don't know why this is happening. I'm not a great fan of conspiracy theories myself, they are far too confusing, but I would like a more convincing explanation of this than I've seen anywhere up to now.

Still, I have some vids on here to watch. Maybe things will make more sense after I've watched them.
 

nimic

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Really, as I have said before, I am literally undecided on this whole debate. The common sense and optimistic part of me says there's no way it can be happening and yet I still cannot grasp why so many people from all over the world would make it up and back up their claims with false evidence. I can't help but be suspicious and to be honest I am sick of seeing the sky around here full of these damn trails, be them chem or con. They shouldn't be forming and persisting unless above some 4000m and they really aren't that high usually, at least not where I am. I am not in any heavy flight path. I don't live close to any major airports. Why do we get one, two or three days a week of ridiculously high amounts of contrails and the others days none at all? Those are the things that are making me dubious. I'd rather be safe than sorry so I will get the tests done and honestly if they're all clear, I'll be the first to help combat and clarify the chemtrail claims as myth. I just feel an open mind is always the safest policy.
Now, first of all, I know very little about this particular theory. But there are a lot of, if we're honest, conspiracy theories out there, that have a lot of both proponents and apparent evidence. Alien abduction, Jewish cabal, lizard-people, Nessie, anything. They all (for some reason) have quite a few people completely convinced about their validity. Even so called experts.

Hell, it's the same for Creationism, global warming denial, homeopathy and chiropractic. There are even PhD's (usually not in the relevant field, but sometimes even a few who are).

So my point is, the fact that there are people out there who you would think have a clue, that are convinced of this, doesn't mean a lot. Or else there's a lot of different conspiracy theories out there you would have to seriously consider, despite the vast majority of informed people remaining unconvinced.
 

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Now, first of all, I know very little about this particular theory. But there are a lot of, if we're honest, conspiracy theories out there, that have a lot of both proponents and apparent evidence. Alien abduction, Jewish cabal, lizard-people, Nessie, anything. They all (for some reason) have quite a few people completely convinced about their validity. Even so called experts.

Hell, it's the same for Creationism, global warming denial, homeopathy and chiropractic. There are even PhD's (usually not in the relevant field, but sometimes even a few who are).

So my point is, the fact that there are people out there who you would think have a clue, that are convinced of this, doesn't mean a lot. Or else there's a lot of different conspiracy theories out there you would have to seriously consider, despite the vast majority of informed people remaining unconvinced.
Cheers for typing out what I couldn't be arsed to... and prolly better, as well.
 

nimic

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Really, as I have said before, I am literally undecided on this whole debate. The common sense and optimistic part of me says there's no way it can be happening and yet I still cannot grasp why so many people from all over the world would make it up and back up their claims with false evidence. I can't help but be suspicious and to be honest I am sick of seeing the sky around here full of these damn trails, be them chem or con. They shouldn't be forming and persisting unless above some 4000m and they really aren't that high usually, at least not where I am. I am not in any heavy flight path. I don't live close to any major airports. Why do we get one, two or three days a week of ridiculously high amounts of contrails and the others days none at all? Those are the things that are making me dubious. I'd rather be safe than sorry so I will get the tests done and honestly if they're all clear, I'll be the first to help combat and clarify the chemtrail claims as myth. I just feel an open mind is always the safest policy.
Okay, this is getting a bit silly now. Personally, I would take the suggestion from a self described "journalist and political activist", that a site which directly counters his theory with science is "one of the many well funded government run websites that have been working tirelessly to suppress the truths that have been coming to light", would serve to validate the counter information rather than disprove it.

It's just such a conspiracy theory, tin hat comment. And it can be made about almost anything. Oh, you can't trust their (vastly more scientifically supported) science, because they're working for the government. It's just a bit too silly for me.
 

Ecstasio

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Okay, this is getting a bit silly now. Personally, I would take the suggestion from a self described "journalist and political activist", that a site which directly counters his theory with science is "one of the many well funded government run websites that have been working tirelessly to suppress the truths that have been coming to light", would serve to validate the counter information rather than disprove it.

It's just such a conspiracy theory, tin hat comment. And it can be made about almost anything. Oh, you can't trust their (vastly more scientifically supported) science, because they're working for the government. It's just a bit too silly for me.
I agree, but history is full of this kind of propaganda and counter-propaganda, knowing who to believe is the real problem.

What do you guys make of this:

 

nimic

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I agree, but history is full of this kind of propaganda and counter-propaganda, knowing who to believe is the real problem.

What do you guys make of this:

Look, I am no expert at this. What I have noticed, though, is that conspiracy theorists in one area are quite likely to support conspiracy theories in other areas. This guy is clearly no different. Have you taken a look at some of his videos? He's talking about "they" using the weather to create this "new world order". He also talks about something he thinks might be particle beam weapons, and how he's diligently watching the sky for aliens.

Ironically, his avatar on Youtube is that confirmed missile launch picture from Norway. Now like I said, I'm no expert. I can't personally disprove the stuff from that particular video. But I think we have to be able to look at his other arguments, where he suggests stuff that is frankly ridiculous, and we have to be a little bit more skeptical about this.

I mean, just take a look at some of his videos. Or videos he's favourited. One of them is called "Gregg Braden on Curing Cancer using our own Technology of Emotion". And yes, the video literally means that.

Gregg Braden presents a video showing cancer being cured in less than 3 minutes using the language of emotion. Using the technology of emotion that's inside all of us and mirror that expection to the field that's all around us. You must feel the feeling as if it has already happened.
This guy is a nutcase. I will always be a little bit more skeptical to accept "science" from people like this.
 

Zarlak

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Really, as I have said before, I am literally undecided on this whole debate. The common sense and optimistic part of me says there's no way it can be happening and yet I still cannot grasp why so many people from all over the world would make it up and back up their claims with false evidence. I can't help but be suspicious and to be honest I am sick of seeing the sky around here full of these damn trails, be them chem or con. They shouldn't be forming and persisting unless above some 4000m and they really aren't that high usually, at least not where I am. I am not in any heavy flight path. I don't live close to any major airports. Why do we get one, two or three days a week of ridiculously high amounts of contrails and the others days none at all? Those are the things that are making me dubious. I'd rather be safe than sorry so I will get the tests done and honestly if they're all clear, I'll be the first to help combat and clarify the chemtrail claims as myth. I just feel an open mind is always the safest policy.
More people falling for the 'lots of people claiming it' technique. Obviously they use that to make you fall for it. Look at all these people saying the same as us. That means it's true. No conspiracy theory can be sucessful if it doesn't have lots of people backing it up. They aren't backing anything up with false evidence because as far as I can see there is no evidence at all. Just a lot of guesing.

If we all got together on RedCafe and told you Santa Claus was real, would you believe us? Why would we all lie? There needs to be proof, you can't take a load of peoples word for it.

Like said before, if it was true then there would be leaks everywhere with actual proof. Photographs, accounts from pilots, video footage etc.

You're believing these claims from people who claim you can cure cancer with the language of emotion in 3 minutes. I wouldn't believe them if they tried to tell me the time, because they'd probably say it's actually 5 minutes later but the government are fooling us all and make watches go slower every day so that we have more time to shop and buy products that they try to make us believe we need through the media and fund their research on aliens. :boring: