What is Diogo Dalot good at?

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

According to fbref,

Dalot percentile among RB playing in 5 Big European Leagues (higher than):

Progressive passes - 82
Tackles - 85
Clearances - 93
Aerials won - 86

Very good scores in important areas. I personally rate his crossing from closer to byline area, resilience, learning ability and teamwork.
Diogo has bags of potential imo. Far from being deadwood.

 

[AshRK]

His contract is up next summer. Hopefully we offer him a new contract

 

[captaincantona]

Folks Dalot is actually getting better. No doubt. Who cares if he fits the same development trajectory as other fullbacks. At the moment he is saving us the price of a good fullback which is €50million to us these days.

ETH is a godsend for him. Consistent playing time, clear relationships is a consistent formation/lineup and clear instruction will do a lot for most players. For Dalot it’s working. Let’s see where it takes us and if we can improve on him next summer I am sure we will. For now - he is earning his place in the team. Fair play to him.

 

[ZupZup]

I have criticised Dalot a lot... I really didn't think he had it in him because you could barely point to any good performances from him in a United shirt.

The last few games he has been decent though. Probably his best performances for the club and in some tough games. At the start of the season I would have wanted us to get rid, and maybe we do still need an upgrade on him, but he has changed my mind enough that I think he's earned his chance right now.

 

[footballbite]

I said it was pretty rare, and those mentioned are rare talents that have been performing at a high level from a young age in the PL

Considering that basically all the top full-backs in the PL have been performing at a high level from at least the same age, if not earlier, it's actually typical - i.e. it's not rare.

If you also looked at more middling PL full-backs such as Kyle Walker-Peters and Matty Cash you'd also see that they were basically established at near their peak level by 23.

i.e. a full-back will typically already be established at very near their peak by 23. The majority of full-backs will already be playing regularly for the highest level club they're ever likely to play at by the time they're 23. It's more rare to see a full-back kick up a level and move to a bigger club after they're 23.

You said it's rare particularly for a full-back, when in actuality it's more likely for a full-back than any other position.

The Athletic chart btw shows that full-backs ultimately on average peak at 25, and that they peak the youngest of all positions. So again, by the time they're 23 they'll already be near that. That's from 11 years of PL data.

Even look at Utd's other full backs - Shaw is 27, AWB is almost 25, it does not seem a stretch to suggest both have actually already peaked.

If you Google 'what age do footballers peak athletic' then look at Google images, you should also still be able to view the chart in the preview window, even if somehow you're not able to read the full article if you click the link.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Andy Robertson joined Liverpool at 23, the age Dalot is now, and was class from the off.

Kieran Tierney joined Arsenal at 22 and impressed early on.

Joao Cancelo is the only one of all those top full-backs who only really came in to his own from a bit later at around 24/25.

So even using your narrower set of players, basically all the top full-backs in the PL were all already very accomplished and established at top clubs by 23 at the very latest (except for Cancelo).

Andy Robertson was behind Alberto Moreno in the pecking order when he joined Liverpool and appeared in 2 league games before the new year in his first season. Not quite class from the off, and he really hit his best vein of form in the run-in to 2018/19, i.e. when he was approaching his 25th birthday.

We've already covered Walker, who was 25 when he had his first great season for Spurs and 27 when he joined Man City. Very much in the same bracket as Cancelo. So that's 3 of the 4 best full-backs in the league not meeting the bolded criteria in my book, with the obvious exception of Alexander-Arnold who is a generational talent.

Few other immediate examples:

• Shaw hit the best vein of form of his career from late 2020 to summer 2021, after turning 25.
• Trippier joined Spurs at 25 having spent 3 of the previous 4 seasons in the Championship, and joined Atletico Madrid at 29 (winning the La Liga title at 30)

And the important point, which I made in my last post too, is that it's more important to look at actual playing time than just age to assess how far along a young(ish) player is:

• Dalot only played 6 league games for Porto before we signed him, made 18 appearances for us in the first season and played virtually no football in his second. At the age of 23, he's played a total of 4,893 minutes in the English, Portuguese and Italian leagues (the equivalent of 54 games)
• Reece James, at roughly the same age, has played the equivalent of 113 games of league football across the PL and 1 season in the Championship
• Tierney (two years older than Dalot) has played the equivalent of 152 games (Scotland and England)
• Alexander-Arnold (a year older) has played the equivalent of 153 games (all Premier League)
• Chilwell (at the time of his move to Chelsea, which you mentioned was at the same age Dalot is now) had played the equivalent of 91 league games for Leicester
• Robertson (since you mentioned him moving to Liverpool at 23) had played the equivalent of 146 league games for Hull and Dundee

All of which is a long-winded way to say there's really nothing to suggest Dalot won't or can't continue to improve, or that he's already close to his peak just because he's 23 and the average is 25.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Andy Robertson was behind Alberto Moreno in the pecking order when he joined Liverpool and appeared in 2 league games before the new year in his first season. Not quite class from the off, and he really hit his best vein of form in the run-in to 2018/19, i.e. when he was approaching his 25th birthday.

We've already covered Walker, who was 25 when he had his first great season for Spurs and 27 when he joined Man City. Very much in the same bracket as Cancelo. So that's 3 of the 4 best full-backs in the league not meeting the bolded criteria in my book, with the obvious exception of Alexander-Arnold who is a generational talent.

Few other immediate examples:

• Shaw hit the best vein of form of his career from late 2020 to summer 2021, after turning 25.
• Trippier joined Spurs at 25 having spent 3 of the previous 4 seasons in the Championship, and joined Atletico Madrid at 29 (winning the La Liga title at 30)

And the important point, which I made in my last post too, is that it's more important to look at actual playing time than just age to assess how far along a young(ish) player is:

• Dalot only played 6 league games for Porto before we signed him, made 18 appearances for us in the first season and played virtually no football in his second. At the age of 23, he's played a total of 4,893 minutes in the English, Portuguese and Italian leagues (the equivalent of 54 games)
• Reece James, at roughly the same age, has played the equivalent of 113 games of league football across the PL and 1 season in the Championship
• Tierney (two years older than Dalot) has played the equivalent of 152 games (Scotland and England)
• Alexander-Arnold (a year older) has played the equivalent of 153 games (all Premier League)
• Chilwell (at the time of his move to Chelsea, which you mentioned was at the same age Dalot is now) had played the equivalent of 114 league games for Leicester. Again, over twice as much playing time as Dalot
• Robertson (since you mentioned him moving to Liverpool at 23) had played the equivalent of 146 league games for Hull and Dundee

All of which is a long-winded way to say there's really nothing to suggest Dalot won't or can't continue to improve, or that he's already close to his peak just because he's 23 and the average is 25.

Agreed, Dalot missed a lot of development time between 2018 and 2019 due to injuries, heck he was injured when he was signed in the summer of 2018!.

Only when he joined Milan on loan in late 2020 and onwards he started to rack up game time and then continued to get more game time under Rangnick and now under Ten Hag, he still has some way to go but he is steadily improving and performing well too, long it may continue.

 

[Revaulx]

I’ve just watched the Sociedad presser and Dalot came across very well indeed; confident and articulate. Called Antony a Good Kid

 

[Abraxas]

He's doing very well but we could do with superior competition for this role in the future. If we could unearth another Malacia for the right it would be great. Dalot is performing well at the moment but there is no reason to think all the eggs should be in that particular basket. He still has to improve and do it over a sustained period.

I don't find AWB to be a good backup because his style of play is so different and poor in areas the manager would probably want. I just don't think he's ever a full back for a top club.

I think Dalot's main strength is his inside passing into the attacking midfield areas, and this season also his aggressive play in duels. He still needs to improve final third play.

 

[AlPistacho]

the price of a good fullback which is €50million to us these days.

Malacia says hi..

But you’re right about Dalot. His improvement this season is very impressive and shows what the right coaching can do. Imagine many of the world’s best in their position under 24s would look average if they were in our team over the past 5 years. Makes you wonder what might have been with the likes of Martial & Rashford, maybe even Shaw.

 

[Revan]

He'll never be world class but his improvement under Ten Hag is obvious, he's solid now and more of a threat going forward. AWB has become an afterthought.

He has all the tools to become world class, IMO. Of course, it remains to be seen if he will develop to that level, but there is hope with EtH’s coaching he will.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I’ve just watched the Sociedad presser and Dalot came across very well indeed; confident and articulate. Called Antony a Good Kid

Yeah that was funny, they're about the same age

 

[Shai-Hulud]

His contract is up next summer. Hopefully we offer him a new contract

We have an option for +1 year so there's no huge hurry.

But I agree that he deserves a new contract soon.

 

[alexthelion]

I don't think he has done well.

Don't know what you've been watching, but it's not Man United.

Maybe you've been watching TAA for Liverpool. Now that's someone who has been playing (very) badly.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I need to put my hands up and admit that I was wrong about Dalot. His defending was so bad that I thought he was not made for PL.

He has improved both in defending and attacking under ETH. The other thing I like about him is his fighting spirit. Hope he can improve further and become one of the best RB in PL.

Having said that I still feel he doesn't have another level to go up to be amongst the world best. But he is contributing well in our current state of rebuild. Constantly one if our best player on the pitch.

 

[Shiva87]

Dalot:

- good cross to Fernandes for our goal against Southampton
- got the ball down and made quick pass to Bruno in build-up to our goal against Leicester
- good cross to Eriksen for chance against Arsenal
- had a shot saved against Brighton
- involved in our goal against Brighton (lucky)
- decent cross to Fernandes for first of 4 chances within a few seconds against Southampton
- lofted cross to Ronaldo for overhead that went wide against Leicester
- 10 key passes in 6 starts so far

Defensively, he's clearly trying hard, though has made some errors.

Against Arsenal I thought there was very little understanding between Dalot, Antony and Rashford regarding where Dalot was going to pass/launch the ball down the line, so we lost possession too often.

I'm looking for 1+ goals, 5+ assists from Dalot this season, assuming he starts most PL matches.

I was watching those Access All Areas videos on the official website. In the moments immediately after the referee has blown for full-time, Dalot and Varane seem to the main players going around hugging team-mates, pats on the back etc.

I also think that the pass to Eriksen for the second goal against Arsenal is totally underrated. Wins the ball back and immediately pings it to Eriksen in space who then finds Bruno.

With AWB, that pass never happens.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Don't know what you've been watching, but it's not Man United.

Maybe you've been watching TAA for Liverpool. Now that's someone who has been playing (very) badly.

Ye he has. You'd still keep him in the team as the most creative right back in history though

 

[studs]

At the moment, proving some of his doubthers wrong.

 

[Olecurls99]

I've been asking myself this for awhile:



and I just don't see any redeeming qualities in his game. What does he offer? What's the attribute he's consistently good at, that Ten Hag can make use of?

There's some gold in here

 

[TsuWave]

There's some gold in here

???

weird

 

[Samid]

Scoring goals.

 

[arthurka]

Scoring goals.

And running up and down the wing.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Everything

 

[Chief123]

There's some gold in here

Apparently we have the worst RB in the league according to some in this thread.

 

[justsomebloke]

Andy Robertson was behind Alberto Moreno in the pecking order when he joined Liverpool and appeared in 2 league games before the new year in his first season. Not quite class from the off, and he really hit his best vein of form in the run-in to 2018/19, i.e. when he was approaching his 25th birthday.

We've already covered Walker, who was 25 when he had his first great season for Spurs and 27 when he joined Man City. Very much in the same bracket as Cancelo. So that's 3 of the 4 best full-backs in the league not meeting the bolded criteria in my book, with the obvious exception of Alexander-Arnold who is a generational talent.

Few other immediate examples:

• Shaw hit the best vein of form of his career from late 2020 to summer 2021, after turning 25.
• Trippier joined Spurs at 25 having spent 3 of the previous 4 seasons in the Championship, and joined Atletico Madrid at 29 (winning the La Liga title at 30)

And the important point, which I made in my last post too, is that it's more important to look at actual playing time than just age to assess how far along a young(ish) player is:

• Dalot only played 6 league games for Porto before we signed him, made 18 appearances for us in the first season and played virtually no football in his second. At the age of 23, he's played a total of 4,893 minutes in the English, Portuguese and Italian leagues (the equivalent of 54 games)
• Reece James, at roughly the same age, has played the equivalent of 113 games of league football across the PL and 1 season in the Championship
• Tierney (two years older than Dalot) has played the equivalent of 152 games (Scotland and England)
• Alexander-Arnold (a year older) has played the equivalent of 153 games (all Premier League)
• Chilwell (at the time of his move to Chelsea, which you mentioned was at the same age Dalot is now) had played the equivalent of 91 league games for Leicester
• Robertson (since you mentioned him moving to Liverpool at 23) had played the equivalent of 146 league games for Hull and Dundee

All of which is a long-winded way to say there's really nothing to suggest Dalot won't or can't continue to improve, or that he's already close to his peak just because he's 23 and the average is 25.

Very good and interesting post. And I hope Dalot will go on to do just that (he's got some developing to do yet....).

 

[justsomebloke]

Considering that basically all the top full-backs in the PL have been performing at a high level from at least the same age, if not earlier, it's actually typical - i.e. it's not rare.

If you also looked at more middling PL full-backs such as Kyle Walker-Peters and Matty Cash you'd also see that they were basically established at near their peak level by 23.

i.e. a full-back will typically already be established at very near their peak by 23. The majority of full-backs will already be playing regularly for the highest level club they're ever likely to play at by the time they're 23. It's more rare to see a full-back kick up a level and move to a bigger club after they're 23.

You said it's rare particularly for a full-back, when in actuality it's more likely for a full-back than any other position.

The Athletic chart btw shows that full-backs ultimately on average peak at 25, and that they peak the youngest of all positions. So again, by the time they're 23 they'll already be near that. That's from 11 years of PL data.

Even look at Utd's other full backs - Shaw is 27, AWB is almost 25, it does not seem a stretch to suggest both have actually already peaked.

If you Google 'what age do footballers peak athletic' then look at Google images, you should also still be able to view the chart in the preview window, even if somehow you're not able to read the full article if you click the link.

Sorry, but I think you misunderstand the point the article in The Athletic is making. They are, strictly speaking, not showing the age at which players peak, in the sense of the age at which they reach their highest level of performance. What they are showing is at what age your minutes played tend to be highest. It's not self-evident that this amounts to the same thing. I suppose you could argue that minutes played is a reasonable proxy for level of performance, but on the other hand you could also argue that this is the age, for this position, where you tend to get the optimal tradeoff between fitness and experience.

FB requires more sprinting and running than most other positions, which could very well in itself explain why the average peak age for minutes played is lower. Given those demands, more players will fall out of contention as they hit the late twenties than is the case for more stationary positions, and also young and fit players will be more likely to be selected over older alternatives because physical fitness and running ability will be more heavily prioritised against skills and maturity than is the case for other positions. Ie, younger FBs are more likely to get minutes even if they have not peaked in other areas of the game.

Secondly, even if you do treat minutes played as a proxy for peak performance, what you have is only a statistical average for all FBs in the PL over a ten-year period. This is not the same thing as the mean, or as the typical peak for a subgroup (ie, the best FBs). There are examples of top FBs (Roberto Carlos, f.e.) still logging similar minutes at 30 or beyond to when they were 23-25. [Irrelevant point] hit peaks both in offensive output and minutes played at age 26-27. Andrew Robertson, best years at age 24, 25 and 27. Cancelo played almost 50% more minutes last year (at age 27) than in any previous season of his whole career. That was also the third time he surpassed 0.2 G+A/90, the other two being at age 26 and 21 (with Valencia). Kyle Walker played the most minutes at age 21 and 22 for Spurs (more than 3300), and then again at age 25-29 (all 2700 or more). He's never had a big offensive impact, but his best years in that regard was at age 26 and 27. Kieran Trippier didn't top 2,000 minutes for a club that wasn't Burnley until he was 27. TAA, Chilwell and Reece James is just speculation - because we don't yet know what their top level is going to be. They're too young. In other words, lots of variation here.

In short - all things considered, the Athletic analysis probably makes it valid to argue FBs tend to peak (performance-wise) earlier than other positions, but it does not make it valid to argue FBs tend to peak at age 25.

 

[The_Midfielder]

He proved me wrong..
Definitely better this season and has that fire..needs to improve his crosses

 

[CarbonStoolBites]

If he keeps at it, that’s 50-60m saved.
The only position in the United all time XI that is up for grabs, you can do it Diogo, it is yours to win.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

If he keeps at it, that’s 50-60m saved.
The only position in the United all time XI that is up for grabs, you can do it Diogo, it is yours to win.

It is not up for grabs. Evra on the left with Irwin nailing down the right back spot.

 

[CarbonStoolBites]

It is not up for grabs. Evra on the left with Irwin nailing down the right back spot.

Its absolutely up for grabs.
Irwin was a left back for the majority of his United career and that position is his in the XI.
Just because he could also play at RB doesn’t mean he should be positioned there in the all time XI.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Its absolutely up for grabs.
Irwin was a left back for the majority of his United career and that position is his in the XI.
Just because he could also play at RB doesn’t mean he should be positioned there in the all time XI.

Well considering Evra on the left was better than Neville on the right, and Irwin was world class on both sides, means that Irwin slots in nicely as a right back. Regardless, Gary Neville was no slouch by the way, Dalot would have a long, long way before even getting anywhere near to Neville.

 

[Suedesi]

Very pleased about the lad - it's clear he's developing nicely under EtH

Also he scored two with his left yesterday, which is odd considering how right-footed he appears to be

 

[TwoSheds]

Gary Neville only became a properly good defender at about the age of 25. Seems like Dalot is getting there too, good on him and hope he can improve his crossing in the next couple of years to the degree Gary did too.

 

[PeteManic]

Reminds me of a modern Denis Irwin.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Well considering Evra on the left was better than Neville on the right, and Irwin was world class on both sides, means that Irwin slots in nicely as a right back. Regardless, Gary Neville was no slouch by the way, Dalot would have a long, long way before even getting anywhere near to Neville.

Absolutely. Maybe he can become like Cancelo someday but I still like my fullbacks to be able to defend consistently.

 

[Olecurls99]

I've been asking myself this for awhile:



and I just don't see any redeeming qualities in his game. What does he offer? What's the attribute he's consistently good at, that Ten Hag can make use of?

 

[Olecurls99]

Nothing. Dalot is a player who improved in the minds of some forums members because the hivemind didn't like AWB

Let's be clear, whatever we think of AWB, Dalot is incredibly poor. I actually think even Brandon Williams is a level above Dalot

This is a good un

 

[Olecurls99]

I honestly can't believe he's still a United player up till now. Should have been sold ages ago. Guy has zero talent. How the feck did we scout him ?

They're all in here

 

[Leftback99]

I hope he carries on proving me wrong because I've long said he was useless (although did note he had age on his side). But anyone saying 'I told you so' is getting carried away over his first ever solid (but not spectacular) month at this point.

 

[Abraxas]

I hope he carries on proving me wrong because I've long said he was useless (although did note he had age on his side). But anyone saying 'I told you so' is getting carried away over his first ever solid (but not spectacular) month at this point.

I think that's the point though, saying he was useless originally is about as sensible as now claiming he's one of the world's top fullbacks.
He was a young lad that had hardly played much football when he was already written off.

I think most of us are at some point guilty of avoiding any nuance in our appraisal of players, maybe because it sounds definite and impressive to state some throwaway opinion. Most of the time players aren't hero or zero and Dalot is a perfect example. He was never that bad and he's not yet achieved anything substantial either.