What midfielder is suited to partner Bruno in the double pivot?

[IrishRedDevil]

Mainoo definitely needs to be given his best shot at learning earning the position.

Can’t be going from generational talent to bench warmer / sold.

 

[tidraKS]

João Palhinha.

 

[Mcking]

Why am I seeing Joao Palhinha shouts? We already have Ugarte to deal with. We need better footballers.

 

[McLvnsMuse]

Move him back to 10/false 9 with freedom to drift all over.

Two solid midfielders (Onana and a technician)

Allow him dovetail with two willing runners in Cunha and Mbuemo.

 

[Skills]

Wharton is the answer to our midfield problem. He's like a flamboyant Carrick that has passing range and simplicity to his game. Would love him as our new engine.

Completes 75% of his passes. Reminds people of Carrick...

 

[Fortitude]

Completes 75% of his passes. Reminds people of Carrick...

Unless you’re taking Carrick’s West Ham’s stats, that’s pretty redundant.

 

[Hammondo]

Unless you’re taking Carrick’s West Ham’s stats, that’s pretty redundant.

What was Carrick's pass completion at 21 years old?

 

[Skills]

Unless you’re taking Carrick’s West Ham’s stats, that’s pretty redundant.

What was Carrick's pass completion at 21 years old?

We obviously won't get those numbers available today.

But Declan Rice is a good proxy in between. Hardly a special passer, but was completing above to 86% of his passes as a 20 year old at West Ham (18/19).

Somehow I'm struggling to believe Carrick would've been down there less than 80%.

 

[Gavinb33]

I just don't see Bruno suited to this position.

When you look at players in this position at the highest level - with dribbling, press-resistant craft such as Vitinha, Joao Neves or defensive capabilities and positionality disciplined such as Rodri, Ruiz. I don't see Bruno fitting there in anyway.

Because he isn't another imperfect solution for a key position what we have been doing for a decade now in central midfield, sick of it to be honest

 

[Fortitude]

We obviously won't get those numbers available today.

But Declan Rice is a good proxy in between. Hardly a special passer, but was completing above to 86% of his passes as a 20 year old at West Ham (18/19).

Somehow I'm struggling to believe Carrick would've been down there less than 80%.

Not really, given both Wharton and Carrick are way, way more daring and expansive with their passing and also first time attempts. Rice has been conservative and reticent with passing through the lines throughout his career whereas these two have/had no hesitation in hitting what’s on the moment it arrives as an opportunity.

Carrick was nurtured by Scholes, so that finishing school aspect is quite removed from his journey to becoming that player.

 

[Himannv]

There really isn't an answer. Just don't play Bruno there.

 

[croadyman]

Move him back to 10/false 9 with freedom to drift all over.

Two solid midfielders (Onana and a technician)

Allow him dovetail with two willing runners in Cunha and Mbuemo.

Can't see Onana leaving Villa even with their PSR issues, think they will be looking to move others. Surprised we haven't at least enquired about Douglas Luiz.

 

[dovaris]

So who is the midfielder we are going to buy that is good at attacking, defending, passing, athletic, has positional awarness and suits our transfer budget after we buy Cunha, Mbeumo and Gyokeres for example?

People find flaws for every midfielder that is being brought up, same for the strikers: "Gyokeres and Osimhen are only scoring in crap leagues in Turkey and Portugal", "Gyokeres is poor at heading, he won't get that much space on the pitch from defenders as in Portugal etc" , "Osimhen is Lukaku 2.0", "We don't want Delap, he scores for a shit team like Ipswich, we need a expirenced striker".

We won't get a midfielder that ticks all the boxes, make piece with that.

 

[AlexUTD]

Just play Ederson in midfield and drop Ugarte.

Agree with this!

 

[NZT-One]

Obviously, the back four you mentioned was arguably one of the best we've seen — no disagreement there. But I actually think we've been quite solid defensively overall, especially when you consider the amount of chopping and changing we've had to do due to injuries. Stability in personnel hasn't been a luxury we've had, yet we've still managed to stay relatively steady at the back.

I agree. I guess, it also helped a lot, having so much firepower in attack so opposition teams would be usually a little restricted to commit too many players in attacks as well.

As for Bruno, I don’t think it’s accurate to say we’d be "forcing" him out of position. The comparison with Musiala doesn’t quite work in this case — Bruno has plenty of experience playing as a central midfielder, both for Portugal and for United, under multiple managers. Yes, a three-man midfield is a different dynamic, but it’s worth noting that the pivot in Amorim’s system is protected by three centre-backs, which offers more security. And to that point, Bruno has already shown he can put in strong performances in that role under Amorim.

I've seen this a lot, I don't really understand it but agree to disagree.

Regarding building around Bruno, I’m just being pragmatic. He’s going to start the majority of games, so naturally it makes sense to bring in players who complement his strengths. That’s not to say it has to be Nmecha specifically — I only used him as an example of the type of profile that could work well alongside Bruno and our other midfielders.

Understandable approach but given the age and other implications, I'd say, there is also a good case to be made to not bring in players now "who would thrive next to Bruno". I'd rather skip that step, improve the midfield alltogether. I agree, he will play the majority of games but I hope, it won't be in central midfield. You are right, this picture could change if we would be able to organize one of the CBs to reliably step up and create a more solid structure, but from my point of view, we are as far away from that as we are away from adding midfielders. I am honestly a bit worried about Amorims ideas towards midfield. I really hope that the selection he made for the final isn't indicative of what he wants.

And on the Mac Allister point — no, they’re not carbon copies. But there are definitely similarities in their profiles as roaming playmakers. Like Bruno, Mac Allister spent much of his time as a number 10 before being shifted deeper into a pivot role, and he’s adapted well. The idea here isn’t that they’re identical players, but that Bruno is more than capable of operating in a similar transitional role, especially within a well-structured system.

I know him only since his Brighton days and have never really seen him as a 10. Always thought he is more of a metronome, able to hit a through ball here and there but mostly concerned with ball retention and movement. Like a 10 in a weaker side, mostly playing a CM role while in the rare occasion of attacking taking certain positions on the field. If that isn't the case, then I could see your point. I guess, I don't really trust the optimism, that Bruno will find a formula to be a good CM further down the line. I simply don't see that, I don't see him having the positional discipline and mostly I don't know whether he'll be able to overcome following his instincts which is "be vertical". I know he is able to supress it at times, but I think it is too deeply ingrained and he'll always be to drawn into taking attacking positions.

Mainoo's profile on the ball is precisely what we need in CM. In his breakout season, he was so press resistant that anyone closing him down was effectively taken out of the game.

With his carrying, and Bruno's passing, it seems like a really balanced 2 in possession.

I would love it if Mainoo could develop his defensive instincts and work on his physicality a little, rather than pushing him into a 10 role. That said, defensive acumen is hard to teach. It seems players either have it, or don't.

But, a defensively stable Mainoo alongside Bruno would be my ideal midfield 2

I don't see that at all. Defensively stable Mainoo would be a great thing to have, but currently, Mainoo is subpar in that category. It'd be a win if he is able to overcome this deficiency. But to play next to Bruno, he would have to add even more since Bruno hasn't the instincts of a CM, he is an AM who runs around and is ready to put his foot in but that doesn't mean, he has defensive instincts. To compliment that, Mainoo would have to become quite a bit over par in terms defensive capabilities and I think it is safe to say, that there isn't much indicating that. And thats not criticism towards Mainoo, the sting sits with talking ourselves into playing Bruno in a position, where he isn't a natural in. It is nice that people look towards Paris and thinking that we "just have to do what they do to get away with playing Bruno there", potentially oblivious to the fact that their whole team is on a different technical and athletic level to ours.

 

[ATXRedDevil]

For the €45 million fee that’s being touted he’d be a bargain. Would love him at United.

Diamonde for only €45m? Figured he would be quoted at much more than that. Would love to have him here as the long term central CB

 

[worldinmotion66]

This is why I wanted to see Bruno go to Saudi this summer. For all his qualities, his physical and positional limitations mean he’s not really suited to a midfield two or one of the 10’s that are expected to work the channels and run beyond the striker.

We’d be far more effective with two more dynamic and physical midfielders. But as Bruno’s staying, we’re going to need someone bigger and stronger alongside him that can cover his deficiencies. Paulinho on a cheaper deal could be a good short term option to rotate with Casemiro. Ugarte can play alongside either and press higher up the pitch whenever we need more steel in there and Bruno plays as a 10

 

[croadyman]

This is why I wanted to see Bruno go to Saudi this summer. For all his qualities, his physical and positional limitations mean he’s not really suited to a midfield two or one of the 10’s that are expected to work the channels and run beyond the striker.

We’d be far more effective with two more dynamic and physical midfielders. But as Bruno’s staying, we’re going to need someone bigger and stronger alongside him that can cover his deficiencies. Paulinho on a cheaper deal could be a good short term option to rotate with Casemiro. Ugarte can play alongside either and press higher up the pitch whenever we need more steel in there and Bruno plays as a 10

Yes I felt the money was needed, on the other hand I was also concerned about losing his leadership and output. Will admit there is a definite rebuild of the midfield needed and that money could have provided the opportunity.

 

[ghagua]

A superhuman prime Kante type of player will be needed to try and fill the midfield donut we will have in midfield without the ball. Bruno has no business playing in midfield if United are to have a successful season. Opponents with be down our defenders throats all season.

 

[Noc-Z]

There's no player that can compensate for Bruno in midfield. I've never been a Bruno fan at the best of times but playing deeper is a disaster.

 

[Ekeke]

Portugal just beat Spain with Bruno playing central midfield. It was a midfield 3 which we never play, but clearly you can be successful with him in midfield

 

[pcaming]

Sander Berge is the one i think.

 

[Infra-red]

Baleba is probably just about the best fit. He'd be prohibitively expensive, though.

As others have said, we just shouldn't play Bruno in the midfield two. Don't buy Mbeumo, play Bruno in the front three (ideally with Cunha and Gyokeres) and spend the Mbeumo money on the best central midfielder we can get. That would be my preferred strategy.

 

[NZT-One]

Portugal just beat Spain with Bruno playing central midfield. It was a midfield 3 which we never play, but clearly you can be successful with him in midfield

Well, yes and no. Portugal went into penalties to win the thing. Before it was mostly Spain who was the active team. They recorded 66% of possession, clocked 16 shots compared to three, Bruno played as the most advanced midfielder, even higher than Bernado Silva. So of course you CAN be successful with him, but when you look at United, it seems like you CAN also be fairly unsuccessful with him. The ideas in here, to balance him with a much more defensive minded player are adorable, as if opposition teams wouldn't just shut Bruno down then if the balance is so obviously wrong.
We can just look around - which top team plays with a player like him in central midfield? Next to none. Because if the players there aren't well equipped physically and with a rounded skillset, they fall into the category of very good technicians that have no issue evading pressure. Which Bruno does not. So, while all of those topteams have way better collectives in terms of player quality, organisation and overall physical attributes, they mostly decide to go for different profiles. You'd think they all would be more able to afford themselves the luxury of adding another attacker in a midfield role - much more than a team like United would. Yet they don't. Do we really think, we found a hidden formula?

 

[NZT-One]

This is why I wanted to see Bruno go to Saudi this summer. For all his qualities, his physical and positional limitations mean he’s not really suited to a midfield two or one of the 10’s that are expected to work the channels and run beyond the striker.

We’d be far more effective with two more dynamic and physical midfielders. But as Bruno’s staying, we’re going to need someone bigger and stronger alongside him that can cover his deficiencies. Paulinho on a cheaper deal could be a good short term option to rotate with Casemiro. Ugarte can play alongside either and press higher up the pitch whenever we need more steel in there and Bruno plays as a 10

Such ideas will never really work. When you stack your midfielders like this, it becomes easier to take them out of the game individually. Just press the less technical player with one player and use another one to stay tight to Bruno since he can't really deal with pressure and the whole midfield is shut down.

Baleba is probably just about the best fit. He'd be prohibitively expensive, though.

As others have said, we just shouldn't play Bruno in the midfield two. Don't buy Mbeumo, play Bruno in the front three (ideally with Cunha and Gyokeres) and spend the Mbeumo money on the best central midfielder we can get. That would be my preferred strategy.

I guess, that would be my prefered way as well.