This comment is about Capello's Madrid.
I don't think that he was at his best at Madrid, in my opinion he was already declining.
What next for Mourinho?
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I believe in his second season with Madrid he broke the La Liga record for most wins, most points, and most goals scored in a single season. Doesn't sound like being past it to me.
Madrid employed him to break Barca's dominance of the domestic scene, and he did that.
Madrid employed him to break Barca's dominance of the domestic scene, and he did that.
There is a difference between being past it and when the decline started, something declining will be at the top at the start of the decline. I will never understand why people want to go to extremes, Mourinho was still a very good manager after his prime and he probably still is a better manager than most but his prime was almost 10 years ago, he didn't decline in a matter of days.
Jacquet never fell, he left football management just after the World Cup and immediately became the FFF technical director.
Any inside info? It was sudden and weird, tbh.
Not really, french media are the worst and lambasted him for almost 5 years, he simply decided to go on a high. he was also at the end of a long career.
Thanks! But whatever happened to Lemerre?
He has never been good and went back to his usual jobs in Africa and small clubs.
The guy is in his 50's.
I don’t buy this 'past his prime' stuff.
I do agree that he came to United at the wrong time, both for him and the club.
But remember. He had very recently won the PL with Chelsea.
And given the opportunity he will be a winner again.
That's irrelevant. The age means nothing, what matters is how long you have been doing it, in sports managers rarely spend 20 years at the top and Mourinho is an old manager when you consider his mileage. He could do an Heynckes and make an incredible come back but it's extremely rare.
And you don't need to be in your prime to win a title.
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I must admit that I had not thought of it that way and thinking about it you make an interesting point.
I guess that this is what Pep is considered about. Being burnt out by the constant pressure.
This is correct. I remember CL semi final match in 2012 his team was 2-1 down vs Bayern munich and only needed 1-0 to win at home second leg. They scored 2 early goal and then reverted to defensive mode for the next 100 minute - it was terrible terrible. He had better team in both times vs Munich and Dortmund and failed because of tactics. Played defensive football with players like Ronaldo, Ozil, Benzema, Di Maria, Higuain . Everyone speaks about the goals record but compared with what his successors managed to achieve with largely same group of players it was underwhelming stint.
It's not just that. Football isn't as open as other sports, so people tend to mistify it but the problem for an older manager is that younger manager will build their entire "football studies" on them and will actively try to understand what these top managers are doing that make them successful, they will eventually understand it and find ways to nullify them which means that older managers need to adapt, some can do it like SAF in football or Bellichick in the NFL, others can't like the dozen of managers that used to be great and are currently pundits or on a beach somewhere.
So it's not simply pressure, you also need to have the will and energy to reinvent yourself continuously. Doing that for 20 years is long, most of them deserve to chill and enjoy other things.
I was talking about Capello, I mainly liked Madrid under Mourinho even though they weren't as tactically sophisticated as a prime Mourinho team would be.
Capello's 06-07 was a pretty forgettable Madrid team that, despite improving 2003-06 Madrid, was knocked-out in the UCL Round of 16 and won La Liga thanks to a lazy, autopilot Rijkaard Barça with an already decadent Dinho, a pre-08/09 Messi injured and/or playing (mostly) in midfield or winger and Eto'o injured for at least 6 months. Deco and Iniesta playing together in the same position didn't help either, with Xavi forced to play as DMF. Schuster actually improved Capello's Madrid by a long margin. Madrid won the 2007 Liga due to a direct defeat of Barça against local rivals Espanyol (EL finalists that season).
Btw, another sudden fall from grace: Schuster
Btw, another sudden fall from grace: Schuster
Yes. Understood. Thanks.
Let's pretend we have a prime chelsea mourinho team. Would that team goes neck to neck with city?
If the answer is yes it means the system isnt outdated. But more on not being able to create the same team and system. I dont think any forms of formation or system can be outdated as such. What's outdated today can be the next decade revelations. Take our own treble winners or the 2008 double winners, can we go neck to neck with city if time machine is invented?
I think the hard part isnt creating a working system, any manager worth their salt can learn from thousand hours of barcelona football and make a paper on how they play, the hard part in football is creating something that works with what you have.
The quality of prome Mourinho is his abiltiy to identify strength and weaknesses in his team and the opponents and find the way to exploit or hide them. So I do believe that a prime Mourinho would be able to go neck to neck with City.
Now, I'm not sure about the point that you are making because I'm talking about a specific timeframe, I'm not talking about football in absolute terms and whether a system can be eternally outdated. But for all currently successful system/approach/philosophies, there will be an answer provided by younger managers, which will be answered by younger managers and so on. whether the answer is an old or a brand new recipe is irrelevant to the point that all managers will have to evlove during the course of their careers and there is a point where they simply can't do it anymore with few exceptions like SAF.
And your last sentence exposes the problem, you are not going to eternally have the same players and the same opponents.
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sounds like he was offered all the money in China and turned it down. Some players could learn a thing or two from him
That was 11/12 so not far off a decade now.
Yeah, he's a real paragon of virtue, our beloved Jose.
One title in three years (two to Barcelona), getting embarrassed in derby matches, playing Pepe in midfield. He didn't break any dominance, don't be daft.
It’s almost like Mourinho leaked the news to the press.
I'd have accepted the deal and sent a lookalike over. If you have 100m in the bank you could buy a very convincing one.
Id like to see him back in the prem, but would there be a team he would be interested in taking on? He always liked the big xfer budget teams, not like say a Pochettino who gets by with what hes given and youth.
I’d like to imagine that he turned it down entirely because Rafa went there, and that he will be constantly beating him from now on with the only went there for the money stick. It seems like the kind of thing he would do.
that's true, we had one
Did Domenech ever coach anyone else after he left France. Such a bizarre reign of terror he inflicted. I know he was just a penalty shoot out away from becoming world cup winning coach but that was more Zidane being amazing up to his headbutt. France nearly went out in group stages aswell.
Mad to think he lasted eight years as French manager.
No and it would have been weird if he did. Domenech was at the end of his career when he got the NT job and had spent 10 years as the U21 manager.
Is it true he didn't play Trezeguet because of astrology?
Mourinho is done at the highest level, unless he has a seriously unexpected epiphany.
Pires.
58 when he left in 2010. Lemerre was 61 when he was sacked after World cup 2002 and managed national teams and odd club side after that.
No, it was a nonsensical rumour.
By that time he had managed for 26 years and had no intention to go back to club football, nor go around the world. He has young kids and wanted to spend time with them.
You seem to imply he wasn’t as bad as the rest of the world thinks. Is that true?
But if you want an actual story about Giuly, he was interested in Domenech's wife but didn't knew that she was with him.
(Let's pretend you said that)
I don't really undestand your question, what do you mean by bad?
Have to say as much as people criticise Deschamps style France is uber slick machine run professionally on and off the pitch compared to what they were in the Domenech era.
Yes in the end getting to World cup final in 2006 was very good achievement but it was more Zidane having a swansong. Finishing last in their group in euro 2008 and then the virtual mutiny of World cup 2010 were more reflection of the chaos with the team in those days.
Yes in the end getting to World cup final in 2006 was very good achievement but it was more Zidane having a swansong. Finishing last in their group in euro 2008 and then the virtual mutiny of World cup 2010 were more reflection of the chaos with the team in those days.