Tuchel went to war with the board like he does everywhere. PSG generally give their managers freedom but have special deals with their players that undermines the manager
What next for Pochettino?
- Thread starter horsechoker
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The Rangers job will be available soon I reckon. Off you go to your level Pochy boy
Surely winning trophies is the benchmark for all managers?
Spurs in the situation under Poch didn't win anything, you stated it may be due to not having the resources, well a) he did have the resources and b) I've just shown you a team who have won two trophies in the last 6 years spending similar/slightly less than Poch did at Spurs.
I mean you could throw in Wigan winning the FA cup, Birmingham winning the league cup as other teams winning trophies in the past decade without spending huge amounts.
Kin hell indeed.
No shit, that’s the point. You can’t claim Poch couldn’t deal with egos because he simply wouldn’t have given licence too. Not a chance in hell could he have gotten away with doing to Messi or Neymar what ETH has to Ronaldo, it’s not even remotely debatable.
A sizeable portion of the caf wanted poch or conte at utd 
I didn’t say he didn’t have the resources at all, I said that he had much less resources (and took over a much worse squad) than Tuchel at Chelsea. Yet take away the honeymoon CL win (without a single of his own players there) and in the job for just months and Tuchel did less than Poch managed at Spurs in his full seasons. At PSG both won titles and shared fecking one up.
I’m also not sure your logic is sound, unless you see McLeish as a better manager than Potter or Howe?
Around 63 per cent of Argentinians are Catholic, is that sort of thing still important to Rangers?
I think Villa would be a perfect job for him. It will put to bed any doubters either way.
He goes into Villa and explodes, Villa battling top 8 playing good football and a few cup runs.
That is his ideal scenario in order to show top clubs he is a top coach and is able to do it with at smaller clubs.
The other one is he goes in and does a little better than Gerrard and his stock will be at the lowest ever and people can say, this is why we didnt want him over Ten Hag.
Either way, if he thinks he is a top coach, this would be a good job because they spend money and have players that can suit his style.
He goes into Villa and explodes, Villa battling top 8 playing good football and a few cup runs.
That is his ideal scenario in order to show top clubs he is a top coach and is able to do it with at smaller clubs.
The other one is he goes in and does a little better than Gerrard and his stock will be at the lowest ever and people can say, this is why we didnt want him over Ten Hag.
Either way, if he thinks he is a top coach, this would be a good job because they spend money and have players that can suit his style.
You know, Conte is running an F1 season with an F2 car, nobody will say he has failed at Spurs if he ends winning nothing there… if any, because nobody wins there. United on the contrary would have been perfect for him, at the time, for having been an underwhelming F1 car since many years.A sizeable portion of the caf wanted poch or conte at utd
Your board chose a different path and that’s fine but, at the end of the day, it will be only vindicated if the club ends winning trophies and back to a dominant position, which is as far fetched in future time (one year? Three years from now?) as Conte winning any trophy with Spurs this year.
Villa seems an appropriate level for Poch based on his track record.
Your logic consists of taking out someone winning the Champions League (without his own players as you put it, which surely would be more difficult?) To try and belittle his achievements, which is bizarre.
Then when I point out other teams have won with even less resources than Poch's Spurs you claim that's a once in a lifetime situation, which isn't true as Leicester have won the FA cup also,
I could quite easily sit here and say take away the Champions League final that Poch got Spurs into, what did he actually achieve?
I mean if we're going to count getting onto finals then Tuchel beats Poch for that anyhow which kind of proves he done more than Poch, but again you'll probably not count them finals for reason or other.
What's McLeish got to do with things? Are you just deliberately trying to confuse your point because your a bit lost yourself?
I get it, you think Poch is really good. That's fine, but don't try and claim that someone winning the Champions League isn't an achievement, or that we shouldn't count it because it appears that this is the only way you can prove your way of thinking currently.
I don’t think so
If he dropped Messi or Neymar for doing what Ronaldo did he'd be well within his rights and I'm sure he would have been supported. The problem for Pochettino was that he was never going to drop them in the first place so they would never have the opportunity to do that. They play week in, week out because he was too scared to take them on.
What were Pochs achievements at Spurs? How come he couldnt somehow picked up a CL?
Two of the wierdest statements i've ever heard.
What were Ancelotti achievements at Everton? Why didnt he win the league?
Di Matteo and Rafa Benitez both won the CL, Avram Grant was a John Terry spot kick away from a CL title in similar circumstances to Di Matteo and Tuchel; Chelsea under Tuchel really was no better, and it certainly doesn’t make him a great manager who “guarantees trophies”.
Once he started building his team it just got worse & eventually he got the boot, he looked as far a way as United from a title challenge or another decent trophy; something I argued all Summer.
Just think about that for a second, Chelsea have two CL’s in their entire history and were a spot kick away from a third, and every single time it’s been with with a manager who got the job mid season. I wouldn’t claim either Grant nor Di Matteo a top manager for that achievement, it’s just something fecking odd about Chelsea. I’d have been much more impressed if Tuchel could’ve then won anything else or even mounted an effort at a title challenge, he did neither, he just got worse.
So in short, I think it’s a much harder job to take Spurs to a top 2 and make them a true top 4 side and a CL final, than it was for Di Matteo or Tuchel to win their CL titles. I think Di Matteo could’ve just as easily been a 2 time CL winner if he was brought back as caretaker in 2021.
I don’t know if Poch is great, I wouldn’t have had him instead of ETH and was always for ETH getting the job. I’m also not sure just how good Tuchel is, he didn’t do much at Dortmund and had a dog shit half season with PsG before getting fired for getting progressively worse with Chelsea. His last two jobs he’s had that pattern of the team getting worse the longer he manages them.
I’m very interested in both managers next appointments to see how good or “meh” either of them are.
edit: feck me I remembered that incorrectly, Granr actually took Chelsea to a CL final in his first full season, after being in his own reinforcements, more impressive for me.
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He definitely shouldn’t take the Villa job. They have less resources than City, Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, and the team he made relevant on the European stage, Spurs.
He will put a great team together, compete, and win, in games against far bigger sides and people on here will scream “why hasn’t he won a trophy yet at Villa, the fraud!???”
He will put a great team together, compete, and win, in games against far bigger sides and people on here will scream “why hasn’t he won a trophy yet at Villa, the fraud!???”
He could take them from relegation to the Champions League and people would still talk about his lack of league titles.
Conte is a very good manager - but there are very good reasons why you wouldn't want him at United.A sizeable portion of the caf wanted poch or conte at utd
Poch is...not a bad manager. But, again, there are good reasons why you wouldn't want him at United.
All in all, though, if you look at the list of plausible candidates to take over from Ole at the point when he was sacked - it's hardly insane to want Conte or Poch.
Given how well Howe has done at Newcastle, I would think that going for Poch would be something of a downgrade.
Not really. We have seen enough of shit like park and counter from pretty much everyone bar LVG. If Conte sets United up like he did Spurs against us, he would be crucified and rightly so.
I dont care we win any trophy or not but I want to see some excitement from my team. Trophies will follow.
A bit unfair to compare the Drogba/Lampard/Terry infused Chelsea sides that DiMatteo/Grant had and the weak-ish side that Tuchel had. On paper, the Spurs team that Poch had was probably better than the Chelsea side Tuchel had.
I think he would do well there. They have some decent players for him to work with. He knows the league well and it would be less of a pressure cooker/insane asylum compared to PSG.
He can rebuild his reputation and maybe in 3 or 4 years have another go at the top.
He was comparing Tuchel at Chelsea and Poch at Spurs. Tuchel won Ch Lge and Poch won nothing of note. Then he said Poch had done better. There is no comparison. Dont know where Ancelotti comes into it.
You can't, no matter how you spin it, diminish winning the Champions League.
Doesn't make a manager great, but gives them a damn sight better record than Poch.
Poch has been sacked from his past two jobs, does that mean he can't build a team either?
Some very strange points being raised here.
You think I’m saying Poch is better than Tuchel, I’m not. You made the mistake last time around thinking that I believe Poch is a great manager, I don’t.
I’d have 100% taken ETH over both in the summer due to his record of building two Ajax teams that could compete at the top level. The rebuild is what was most persuasive for me.
I said in the Summer Tuchel has tonnes of question marks over him, and he has even more now.
I absolute CAN diminish winning the CL, just by telling you Di Matteo won it in similar circumstances, a man proven to be an utter dog shit manager. You can’t tell me Di Matteo is a better manager than Poch or Howe, or Potter and keep a straight face. Of course stepping in late in January and managing a CL campaign from the last 16 diminishes it.
He didn’t qualify for it, didn’t even qualify from the group, didn’t build the team that won it.
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Not sure what he's waiting for, alot of top clubs have overlooked him since PSG sacked him, so reckon he needs to eat humble pie and take a job like this to prove himself again, or he'll be waiting a good while longer.
Alot?
Bayern had a manager, Still do.
Juve too.
Real too.
Barca.
United already had EtH signed.
Liverpool too.
Spuds if we include them.
Which top clubs you talking about? Chelsea?
Yes us and Chelsea basically, Poch would have been an open goal for us but we went for ETH, Chelsea seemingly never considered him,
Do you reckon any of Madrid, Barca, or Bayern, would go for him? Madrid would be the only ones imo, but with Tuchel available I'd doubt it.
Personally I think he's waiting for Conte to depart Spurs, which probably won't take too long.
The best arguments against Poch are:
a) the way he drove Spurs into the ground. He finished with 6 wins, 5 draws and 11 defeats
b) how he failed to sign a single quality player after the summer he signed Son and Alderweireld - I think Spurs spent about £150-160 million pounds over the next 3 seasons - and the best players they signed were Sissoko, Moura, Davinson Sanchez and Wanyama - and not one of those 4 would became regular Spurs-players
a) the way he drove Spurs into the ground. He finished with 6 wins, 5 draws and 11 defeats
b) how he failed to sign a single quality player after the summer he signed Son and Alderweireld - I think Spurs spent about £150-160 million pounds over the next 3 seasons - and the best players they signed were Sissoko, Moura, Davinson Sanchez and Wanyama - and not one of those 4 would became regular Spurs-players
Conte has never stayed more than 3 seasons with any club (and that was Juve) - I seriously doubt he will at Spurs - so you might be right about that one
Aint there any Villans in here? Who do they want?
Your thoughts and points are muddled beyond belief.
At this point you are essentially just shouting at clouds.
Di Matteo at the time of him winning the Champions League was a decent manager, he managed to overturn a huge deficit against Napoli and finished the season strongly. Now, no he's not such a good manager.
Similar to Poch I guess, someone who's legacy has been tainted by a few years of rather lackluster results or failing to produce the high quality owners demand.
To completely discredit someone winning the biggest European trophy smacks of someone desperately trying to prove a point which is now so muddled it bears no relevance to the actual thread.
Tuchel is a better manager than Poch, I don't think that's controversial. However had you compared the two during Poch's Spurs reign then Poch may have been on top.
Tuchel has won trophies at his last three clubs, he has got into countless finals.
Poch has won at PSG and got into one Champions League final.
It's not controversial to say Tuchels record is far superior to that of Poch's, even taking into account Poch 'only' spent £90m on average a season at Spurs and supposedly didn't have resources etc etc.
Although not a chance they could get Poch, Rangers have had actual Catholic managers and many catholic players now.
Ah ok, glad they've left that sort of thing behind.
Our team was clearly not an F1 car last season. Infact it was a F3 car!
Last season it was more like an Alt+F4 car.