What now?

Ludens the Red said:
I don’t think we will but we will be very close to it. All the metrics, projection etc says that’s where the club is heading towards.

“Next season won’t be this bad” lets be fair; we heard that after the post carabao cup win in 2023. We then heard it after the end of last season. We then heard it when Amorim came in: there always seem to be this automatic assumption that a pre season and signings will improve things.

I think what people forget is that other clubs don’t just do nothing and wait for United to play catch up. Every other team is looking to and goes to improve. Everyone else will be strengthening.
United spent what 200 mill last summer ? To finish eight/nine places lower.
There’s simply nothing to base next season getting better on imo. And actually the logical projection is that it gets worse.



Yeah I suspect he’ll have us in the relegation zone quite early in the season and then be sacked. New man will then keep us up.
Click to expand...
We massively underperformed this season, though, and we do have decent players still. The trajectory I’m seeing is we will consolidate ourselves as a mid-table side and heaven knows what does this mean in the long run.

All I know is tonight’s defeat is a setback unlike any other. We absolutely needed to win to fast-track our rebuild and we didn’t.
 
Lennon7 said:
We’ve got some top players, I wouldn’t fear the absolute worst. Tonight was shocking but if we can address the lack of goalscoring ability we should do a lot better

Cunha would be a start
Click to expand...

We really don't have many top players, actually.

I'd consider Bruno a top player that's kinda in his prime right now.

Amad, Yoro, Garnacho, and Mainoo are young, promising players who have the chance to develop into top players.

The rest are all forgettable. Some used to be good enough but have aged/injured out (Casemiro, Shaw, Eriksen) and the rest are players who will never be good enough to be in a team that contends.

I honestly don't know a lot about Cunha, but if he were that good, teams like Madrid, Bayern, City, etc, would be after him. The fact that we're seemingly the only club in for him tells me a lot already.
 
pocco said:
is the sort of personality I’d want around the place
Click to expand...
Amazing to me that people think "he's a good lad for the dressing room" makes any difference at all given we're literally 16th in the league. Off the back of last season where we were very very lucky to finish top half.

I mean, if we didn't have Casemiro's apparently very important personality in the dressing room, I assume we must be even worse and probably relegated.
 
Todd said:
I honestly don't know a lot about Cunha, but if he were that good, teams like Madrid, Bayern, City, etc, would be after him. The fact that we're seemingly the only club in for him tells me a lot already.
Click to expand...
If this was true, it makes you wonder if it would be even possible to get back to the top end of the league?

If good players are courted by top teams who we can't compete with in the market, it will be impossible for us to sign any good players, and we're doomed to a midtable or relegation scrap indefinitely.
 
diarm said:
We’re not a Champions League quality side and will finish the season exactly where we deserve to.

No European football means we can cut the squad. Ship out a host of players who have no business playing for a club like this and start afresh.

You can count the number of senior players who deserve a place in this squad on your hands.

Build a small, hungry squad of quality players who want to learn and be better.
Click to expand...
I'm sceptical on squad size needing to change that much season to season.

Really, you always need 2 players per outfield position if you want to be competing near the top of the league. And 3 keepers. That's whether you're in Europe or not. Any more than 2 players per position is wasted wages and bloat.

So basically you want a squad of 23 senior players, and anything on top of that should be young players who don't really expect first team game time but it's a bonus for them if they do get minutes.
 
As far back as even Jose Mourinho's first season, winning the EL was going to be the catalyst to attract new players, more money, bigger budgets, bigger stars and so on and so forth.

It's been almost 10 years of in and out of the CL and the years we've been in have brought no success whatsoever.

Granted our financial situation is different now, but was it really going to move the dial? We have no evidence we'd even spend the money wisely.

Perhaps having tighter purse strings will force us to think smart. Think Cunha is a brilliant addition to the forward line and a great start to the summer.

Can we operate shrewdly in the market though and get some quality deals done under thr radar? The star names have not worked for us anyway.
 
I look forward to the potential financial
Boost we might get from being promoted 27/28. That’ll kickstart our comeback.
 
Well the Glazers won't sell whatever happens, it seems they are here until nothing is left of the club so our options are very limited from the word go.

I really want Amorim to succeed but he hasn't managed to show anything - whether that's his fault or the club's, it doesn't matter. He should go for his own sake because there is no upside from here.

We're very unlikely to see the likes of Sancho, Rashford or Antony leave, or any of the other high earners so our hands are largely tied in terms of squad regeneration.

That leaves us as a lower half team in the league, so have to get used to that for now and hope that our profile gives us some sort of an edge over other similar positioned clubs, for now.
 
Antisocial said:
Well the Glazers won't sell whatever happens, it seems they are here until nothing is left of the club so our options are very limited from the word go.

I really want Amorim to succeed but he hasn't managed to show anything - whether that's his fault or the club's, it doesn't matter. He should go for his own sake because there is no upside from here.

We're very unlikely to see the likes of Sancho, Rashford or Antony leave, or any of the other high earners so our hands are largely tied in terms of squad regeneration.

That leaves us as a lower half team in the league, so have to get used to that for now and hope that our profile gives us some sort of an edge over other similar positioned clubs, for now.
Click to expand...

They won't sell without pressure but INEOS can put their stake of UTD on sale. That will put enormous pressure on Glazers to do the same. The Glazers were sinking till INEOS bailed them out. Ratcliffe needs to be hones with himself. To succeed UTD need an owner who can clear the debt, fund the stadium and let UTD revenues be solely focused on transfers. He can't. So sell. Let it all come to ahead. Rather than this slow death where each manager we get worse and worse. And the finances get worse and worse.
 
santeria13 said:
To be fair, this is absolutely the darkest of days post fergie. We are absolutely terrible in every regard without much indication as to it changing any time soon.
Click to expand...
100% agree. There were loads of moments along the way that felt the darkest but this is the worst. In the past it always felt like we had something to build on and some optimism even on the back of disappointing or straight up bad seasons. This year, what do we have to look at that we can legitimately say is a sign of progress? Our brightest spots of hope from the last couple years (Mainoo, Garnacho) were shunted to the bench and regressed.
 
Kearnkoff69 said:
100% agree. There were loads of moments along the way that felt the darkest but this is the worst. In the past it always felt like we had something to build on and some optimism even on the back of disappointing or straight up bad seasons. This year, what do we have to look at that we can legitimately say is a sign of progress? Our brightest spots of hope from the last couple years (Mainoo, Garnacho) were shunted to the bench and regressed.
Click to expand...
And now it looks likely that we’ll have to sell those two.
 
Take advantage of the fact that these players will never see their champions league wage contracts realised ever again if they stick around and ship them out. Also since we're now skint and radioactive we should probably try and take advantage of one of Amorims biggest selling points being touted before we signed him which was building a team with the youth an cheap players, the fact he had like a 20+ player turn over on a shoe string budget after that fan training invasion and turned them into winners over the the bigger budgets of Porto and Benfica as well as selling and replacing his players for big money frequently sadly means that this macabre situation we find ourselves in has presented him with a chance to shine.

Tonights game was so bad it's hard to be bothered if he was sacked but unless something like Inzaghi winning the Champions league and then INEOS panics and tries to persuade him to come for the new season it's hard to see past Amorim starting the new season.

sell EVERY player you can get a decent/fair price for except for Amad and Yoro, buy Cunha (he seems the only top quality player happy/stupid enough to come) as the superstar to build the team around and then go on a crazy scouting buying spree on players under 24 similar to what Chelsea and Forrest did. Both teams are now solid at the top of the table 2 season later once they sieved through what they had bought and kept the best talent.

This is probably the most positive take I can think of, treat it as a silver lining and a chance to build a young hungry squad going forward, kind of like a budget version of PSG after they finally binned off the superstars and then hoovered up all the best under 25 talent.
 
I like Amorim. I really do. When he joined, I was genuinely excited. He’s a modern coach with a clear, attractive style of football, and I believe he’ll find success elsewhere. But as much as I respect him, I think it’s time for him to go.

The problem isn’t just him. We knew how he likes to play, and we brought him into a squad that doesn't suit his system. To be honest, the squad isn’t suited for any system. It’s not just tactical it’s a talent issue. This group of players simply isn’t good enough.

Some argue it’s unfair to judge a coach who came in mid-season without a transfer window. Normally I’d agree, but only if we’d seen some sign of progress. Right now, there’s nothing. No results, no promising performances, no players improving. Nothing but hope to cling to.

This season is a new low. Even the most pessimistic fans couldn’t have predicted how bad things would get. Amorim isn’t the only one to blame, but we have to set standards. Keeping him on just feels unthinkable now.

We need a complete reset. Not just the coaching staff the entire squad. Put everyone on the market except the youngsters. This club needs major surgery. Signing 3–4 players per window won’t fix anything. The culture is so broken that the players we bring in one season become part of the problem by the next.

Relegation is a real concern for next season. The club is broke, the squad lacks hunger and talent, and it’s filled with overpaid prima donnas. The culture is toxic. I don’t think we’re truly grasping how deep the issues go.

People are acting like a new season will magically solve things. Even if we sign 3–4 decent players, the cycle continues. Recruitment matters, of course but culture is everything. It’s not a coincidence that clubs with a winning mentality develop great players, while ours stagnate. Look at all the players who leave United and then publicly criticise the club Cristiano, Sancho, Alexis. You don’t see this happen nearly as often at other top clubs.

The sad truth is Manchester United isn’t a big club anymore. Not in footballing terms. We're still a big brand, which can attract good players but not the best. And honestly, if I were a player, even as a lifelong fan, I wouldn’t sign for us right now.

The rot starts at the top the ownership. And until that changes, nothing else truly will. No Champions League means less money, and that means we can’t compete financially with the top 6. We’re stuck in a cycle of mediocrity.

Right now, there’s no light at the end of the tunnel. I’ve supported this club through more than a decade of underperformance, but I’ve never felt this hopeless. This is as bad as it’s ever been.
 
GlazersHater said:
I like Amorim. I really do. When he joined, I was genuinely excited. He’s a modern coach with a clear, attractive style of football, and I believe he’ll find success elsewhere. But as much as I respect him, I think it’s time for him to go.

The problem isn’t just him. We knew how he likes to play, and we brought him into a squad that doesn't suit his system. To be honest, the squad isn’t suited for any system. It’s not just tactical it’s a talent issue. This group of players simply isn’t good enough.

Some argue it’s unfair to judge a coach who came in mid-season without a transfer window. Normally I’d agree, but only if we’d seen some sign of progress. Right now, there’s nothing. No results, no promising performances, no players improving. Nothing but hope to cling to.

This season is a new low. Even the most pessimistic fans couldn’t have predicted how bad things would get. Amorim isn’t the only one to blame, but we have to set standards. Keeping him on just feels unthinkable now.

We need a complete reset. Not just the coaching staff the entire squad. Put everyone on the market except the youngsters. This club needs major surgery. Signing 3–4 players per window won’t fix anything. The culture is so broken that the players we bring in one season become part of the problem by the next.

Relegation is a real concern for next season. The club is broke, the squad lacks hunger and talent, and it’s filled with overpaid prima donnas. The culture is toxic. I don’t think we’re truly grasping how deep the issues go.

People are acting like a new season will magically solve things. Even if we sign 3–4 decent players, the cycle continues. Recruitment matters, of course but culture is everything. It’s not a coincidence that clubs with a winning mentality develop great players, while ours stagnate. Look at all the players who leave United and then publicly criticise the club Cristiano, Sancho, Alexis. You don’t see this happen nearly as often at other top clubs.

The sad truth is Manchester United isn’t a big club anymore. Not in footballing terms. We're still a big brand, which can attract good players but not the best. And honestly, if I were a player, even as a lifelong fan, I wouldn’t sign for us right now.

The rot starts at the top the ownership. And until that changes, nothing else truly will. No Champions League means less money, and that means we can’t compete financially with the top 6. We’re stuck in a cycle of mediocrity.

Right now, there’s no light at the end of the tunnel. I’ve supported this club through more than a decade of underperformance, but I’ve never felt this hopeless. This is as bad as it’s ever been.
Click to expand...
Fantastic post.
 
santeria13 said:
To be fair, this is absolutely the darkest of days post fergie. We are absolutely terrible in every regard without much indication as to it changing any time soon.
Click to expand...
As bad as it's been over 12 years, when we've finished just outside the top 4 you knew we could go blow £200 million and offer wages to attract players to try get us back to where we want to be. Now, we spent that money poorly, and caused this financial mess, but at least we'd be hovering in and around the top 4.

Now, we're relegation fodder, and skint. It's literally hopeless. I don't see how we could have anything other than a midtable finish next season, even if we recruited well with our very limited funds.
 
Sir Alex Ferguson retired in 2013. Since then, we’ve had Moyes, Van Gaal, Giggs, Mourinho, Ragnick, Carrick, Solskjaer, Ten Hag and now Amorim. Many players have come and gone, a few have stayed through these changes and only one thing I see persists: a poor midfield.

Every fecking decent team in Europe plays through its midfield. Today was the perfect storm. Watching that excruciating display of passing the ball around the box with little penetration (and zero creativity) was the climax of how putrid our build up and playmaking is. Our most creative midfield players, Fernandes is now into his 30s, has tons of mileage on his legs, Casemiro even worse. We could get Prime Pele as a striker, and it won’t matter a damned thing.

So what now? Build the fecking midfield at last. Watching the Barca-Inter second leg midfield play gave me such a hard on felt I was on cocaine-laced Viagra. Until we get the players that can be press resistant, progressive and creative enough to penetrate through into the final third, it won’t matter who we buy- the scarcity of goals will continue. Even when we performed better through the various regimes post-SAF, we were always the weakest in goal differential.

Diabolical construct of a football squad.
 
GlazersHater said:
I like Amorim. I really do. When he joined, I was genuinely excited. He’s a modern coach with a clear, attractive style of football, and I believe he’ll find success elsewhere. But as much as I respect him, I think it’s time for him to go.

The problem isn’t just him. We knew how he likes to play, and we brought him into a squad that doesn't suit his system. To be honest, the squad isn’t suited for any system. It’s not just tactical it’s a talent issue. This group of players simply isn’t good enough.

Some argue it’s unfair to judge a coach who came in mid-season without a transfer window. Normally I’d agree, but only if we’d seen some sign of progress. Right now, there’s nothing. No results, no promising performances, no players improving. Nothing but hope to cling to.

This season is a new low. Even the most pessimistic fans couldn’t have predicted how bad things would get. Amorim isn’t the only one to blame, but we have to set standards. Keeping him on just feels unthinkable now.

We need a complete reset. Not just the coaching staff the entire squad. Put everyone on the market except the youngsters. This club needs major surgery. Signing 3–4 players per window won’t fix anything. The culture is so broken that the players we bring in one season become part of the problem by the next.

Relegation is a real concern for next season. The club is broke, the squad lacks hunger and talent, and it’s filled with overpaid prima donnas. The culture is toxic. I don’t think we’re truly grasping how deep the issues go.

People are acting like a new season will magically solve things. Even if we sign 3–4 decent players, the cycle continues. Recruitment matters, of course but culture is everything. It’s not a coincidence that clubs with a winning mentality develop great players, while ours stagnate. Look at all the players who leave United and then publicly criticise the club Cristiano, Sancho, Alexis. You don’t see this happen nearly as often at other top clubs.

The sad truth is Manchester United isn’t a big club anymore. Not in footballing terms. We're still a big brand, which can attract good players but not the best. And honestly, if I were a player, even as a lifelong fan, I wouldn’t sign for us right now.

The rot starts at the top the ownership. And until that changes, nothing else truly will. No Champions League means less money, and that means we can’t compete financially with the top 6. We’re stuck in a cycle of mediocrity.

Right now, there’s no light at the end of the tunnel. I’ve supported this club through more than a decade of underperformance, but I’ve never felt this hopeless. This is as bad as it’s ever been.
Click to expand...
I agree with alot of what you are saying. I think by far this is the worst United team i have ever seen in 30 years. However I reconize I was quite spoiled with SAF.
I think that the recent changes at the top of the footballing structure will make a difference and is now in place. Our recent signings have been alot better at priorizing younger players. I'm not sure about sacking the manger again. If that's the vision build a long term plan. We need 4 to 5 years for the resent to take place. We have all ready started. I think that they brought Ruben in early to help accelerate that transition as he is now here and we don't have to wait for summer. He said their would be pain. And he was right but stuck to his guns.
Ten Hag had to abandon his style of play due to the preasures of being a united coach and in the end still paid the price. Watch him be successful somewhere else.
I think you have to give him this summer and at least one full year in charge. Get some more of his type of players. Get rid of some and see what happens. He doesn't have the proper players to play his system currently. And changing a system mid season is always going to be a nightmare. And it was. But he had the guts to do it. I give Ruben that.
I dont think it's as bad as you think. I feel like the seeds are in place, but you have to wait for it to grow.
 
I think missing out on the CL money means we sell a few players we would rather have kept. Namely Garnacho, Mainoo and maybe even Bruno if he’s open to going to Saudi. Definitely one of them is going because of this game. I’d be ok with selling them all for the right price to be honest, although for Bruno that means £150m. We will have a smaller squad and supplement it with random moneyball signings like Heaven or youth players.

There’s a future where this could be a good thing. Get the recruitment right, drill the team properly during our free midweeks and they could bounce back up the league pretty hard. That’s just me trying to make myself feel better, I don’t have much faith in the management or Amorim to pull it off.
 
A complete overhaul, wholesale is coming up. Let go all the deadwoods, bring in players that believe the project, physical and mental fit the system. Play youth might be risky but we have done it before and succeed. We should not let this culture go down.
 
Judas said:
This is actually more annoying now, because I think they were changing the broadcasting rules so more of them would have been shown on tv in England, and now it'll be a lot more 3pms not on tv :lol: :(
Click to expand...
It sucks to be in England. These rules make no sense. I shouldn't experience the PL in its entirety as a foreign more than someone living in the UK
 
Dominos said:
If this was true, it makes you wonder if it would be even possible to get back to the top end of the league?

If good players are courted by top teams who we can't compete with in the market, it will be impossible for us to sign any good players, and we're doomed to a midtable or relegation scrap indefinitely.
Click to expand...

Penny is finally dropping for some. We are screwed:

 
I’m not quite sure this is rock bottom.
I said it at the beginning of the season that I think we might get relegated as I can’t see us Getting 40+ points. My friends said I was crazy. Well we’re on 39 pts.
A lot depends on our summer window of course, but next season we really might go down.
I mean, honestly, are we more likely to finish top 6 next season (aprox 27 points jump differance) or a proper relegation battle (1-5 points differance)?
 
Next season we need to be aiming for a top half finish and a good cup run. We need to build a solid foundation and a system of playing that can set us up for the next 3 seasons and go from there. Can't believe I'm writing this as a Utd fan, but that's the reality of it.
 
Sky1981 said:
@Kopral Jono

For the first time in so many years. I ate "indomie goreng jumbo" 5am in the morning. It's that bad

I started to take supporting united as some noir hobby, as in you accept it and have a laugh at your own misery. It helps.
Click to expand...
No time for Indomie my end; my hands were shaking like a moron for a good hour or so after the final whistle. Decided this morning to take a cheeky WFH, too, with staff covering a meeting. Had a few hours of sleep and literally just woke up again.
 
Uniquim said:
Yeah this is bad. Missed out on £85m tonight. Will probably have to sell more players to buy now, and any attempt at rejuvenation and building a proper team will take a lot longer.
Click to expand...
The word "rebuild" has been thrown around for a decade, but has never really happened. We've just limped along whilst throwing big money on useless players

Trur change wont happen until we see a change of ownership. Ralf saw it, LVG saw it, even fecking Ronaldo.
 
LordSpud said:
Penny is finally dropping for some. We are screwed:

Click to expand...

Its a dire situation to be in but its the kind of desperate situation required to get our blockhead executives to finally grow spines and make the drastic changes needed.

1. Rashford, Sancho, BRUNO, Antony, Eriksen, Evans, Lindelof, MAGUIRE, Casemiro, Shaw, Onana, Hojlund, Mount must all be told to find new clubs this summer. Plain and simple. Need to completely sever all ties with the overpaid fixtures of this disastrous era and start afresh.

2. Amorim also should be fired as soon as the Aston Villa game is completed.

3. Find a coach who values playing on the front foot, values midfield control and maximising the talent of our youngsters.

4. Build around Mainoo, Amad, Garnacho, Yoro.

Bottom line is this, if Amorim is still here next season, we are very strong favourites to get relegated. Its no longer the pipe dream that our delusional fans think it is. Its now a very real threat.
 
windycityfan said:
Sir Alex Ferguson retired in 2013. Since then, we’ve had Moyes, Van Gaal, Giggs, Mourinho, Ragnick, Carrick, Solskjaer, Ten Hag and now Amorim. Many players have come and gone, a few have stayed through these changes and only one thing I see persists: a poor midfield.

Every fecking decent team in Europe plays through its midfield. Today was the perfect storm. Watching that excruciating display of passing the ball around the box with little penetration (and zero creativity) was the climax of how putrid our build up and playmaking is. Our most creative midfield players, Fernandes is now into his 30s, has tons of mileage on his legs, Casemiro even worse. We could get Prime Pele as a striker, and it won’t matter a damned thing.

So what now? Build the fecking midfield at last. Watching the Barca-Inter second leg midfield play gave me such a hard on felt I was on cocaine-laced Viagra. Until we get the players that can be press resistant, progressive and creative enough to penetrate through into the final third, it won’t matter who we buy- the scarcity of goals will continue. Even when we performed better through the various regimes post-SAF, we were always the weakest in goal differential.

Diabolical construct of a football squad.
Click to expand...
Great point and dare I say this is a problem dating back to late-Fergie era. Scholes-Carrick-Hargreaves was the last great midfield we had and this was almost two decades ago. Unacceptable for a club of our stature.
 
LordSpud said:
Penny is finally dropping for some. We are screwed:

Click to expand...

This is precisely why all these silver lining merchants of the 'at least we'll be playing less games and have more time in training' persuasion are talking utter and complete steaming pile of bullshit.

We absolutely NEED Champions League football next season to remain relevant for decent players to come and for our current players to believe in the Amorim rebuild. We also absolutely NEED Champions League money to buy said players. But alas, not to be -- in the most embarrassing of fashion to boot. So what now, a cull? Who wants to buy our players? And even if we manage to sell some for decent fees this summer (and only a select few will fetch decent money), how are we going to replace them with upgrades on such a limited time?

Right now it really is just an endless list of questions that I don't have sensible answers for. It's truly uncharted territory and I worry deeply for our future.
 
Kopral Jono said:
This is precisely why all these silver lining merchants of the 'at least we'll be playing less games and have more time in training' persuasion are talking utter and complete steaming pile of bullshit.

We absolutely NEED Champions League football next season to remain relevant for decent players to come and for our current players to believe in the Amorim rebuild. We also absolutely NEED Champions League money to buy said players. But alas, not to be -- in the most embarrassing of fashion to boot. So what now, a cull? Who wants to buy our players? And even if we manage to sell some for decent fees this summer (and only a select few will fetch decent money), how are we going to replace them with upgrades on such a limited time?

Right now it really is just an endless list of questions that I don't have sensible answers for. It's truly uncharted territory and I worry deeply for our future.
Click to expand...

The problem is, if we get relegated next season we will be relegated next season ala Sunderland. The club won't be able to afford players while in the Championship. The club is on the road to ruin big time.
 
We need to add some shithousery to this squad, we are weak and get pushed around far too easily
 
You must log in or register to reply here.