Also here's how De Bruyne and Bruno compare to each other... I would've put Odegaard but they only have him as a midfielder so can't compare his numbers as an AM.
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What sort of attackers do we have? A look at stats
- Thread starter justsomebloke
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Nice work!
Also to feed into the hype, here's Amad in the Championship:
Carrying, passing, decent shooting... needs to up his work rate, needs to start crossing it in some, and a lot of turnovers so far but that's expected for a young creator. Hell creators like that tend to have a lot of turnovers anyway. Very complete looking player, and pretty elite at the important stuff. Needs to carry it forward at a higher level.
Carrying, passing, decent shooting... needs to up his work rate, needs to start crossing it in some, and a lot of turnovers so far but that's expected for a young creator. Hell creators like that tend to have a lot of turnovers anyway. Very complete looking player, and pretty elite at the important stuff. Needs to carry it forward at a higher level.
Could you not make the argument that with Sancho he ties to play a complete attacking player and he has almost no one to play with with this style?
Nah. He gets the ball into the box but isn't getting it to the right players or the right positions clearly. It's pretty flukey to see a player be elite at getting it into the box, but comparatively take no shots and have such a low xAG. Also comparing his stats from Dortmund to here - the carries into the final third are way down now, his passing into the final third, his progression with pass and carries is way down, and his shooting has completely disappeared. He was basically a complete creator at Dortmund - here he just hasn't managed to get involved, isn't taking players on, and isn't turning anything into shots. Others are managing it at United, so you have to just ask why isn't Sancho capable of it?
Here is his 20/21 season compared to the Bundesliga, what we thought we were getting:
He's just gone hiding here.
Thanks for all this info, learning a lot from this thread.
He's also only played a small sample of games. He's also not much of a threat in the box in those games he's played. If we put in a low driving cross into the box, will Martial go out of his way to get a touch on it? Would he be well positioned to capitalize? How many left footed shots has Martial taken as a striker here? How many times has he scored from shooting outside the box? How many runs does he make behind the defence compared to most predatory strikers?
For me, when he has the space to drive with the ball and shoot with his right foot he's ok. He also has the ability to be head on occasion. For me, he's similar to Cody Gakpo, who is not a striker, but can probably also play false 9. Statistics are great, but the context of lack of game time and watching the games should come into play. The type of goals scored also matters too in predicting a strikers output. It's 2023 and we still can't truly predict him. He's been with us since 2015, that's not good.
Stats probably the reason we have been a mess for so long now.
Given we took a while to catch up to others in terms of our analytics game, it's probably part of the reason we fell behind...
A small part perhaps.
We had the best managers, LVG, Mourinho, we had the professor, Ralf. Their coaching and scouting teams are no joke too. The used the stats for sure. At the end of the end, everyone gambled. Most players had good stats or at least showed potential in stats, but it’s a different story when they join in.
Yeah not a massive part but it has a role. For me the biggest non glazer reason why we sucked on the pitch was:
- Managers were not the right managers for the club, wrong style of play, not good enough coaches, not good enough motivators, couldn't adapt to modern game or were short term managers up against the best progressive football managers who could beat the short term pragmatism and made it all look bad
- Managers didn't know what the team needed in terms of targets, or what type of players, to actually improve their systems sufficiently (or targeted the wrong players for that).
Great thread. Exactly what the cafe needs more of.
It's interesting how most or all of those statistics confirm what we think we are seeing during the games.
Also interesting how similar the graphs are for Bruno and De Bruyne. The notable difference is carries into the final third, and I wonder how much this impacts the stats of our other attackers. In theory you would think that having more carries before releasing means you are in a more attacking position to receive possession back.
I often feel our attackers are too isolated when receiving the ball and this negatively impacts passing stats. Ie they are expected to make something out of less, which would suit Sanchos style the least. Bruno's directness, which is a key driver for our team, perhaps also dictates how the rest of the team are 'forced' to perform when playing with that type of teammate
It's interesting how most or all of those statistics confirm what we think we are seeing during the games.
Also interesting how similar the graphs are for Bruno and De Bruyne. The notable difference is carries into the final third, and I wonder how much this impacts the stats of our other attackers. In theory you would think that having more carries before releasing means you are in a more attacking position to receive possession back.
I often feel our attackers are too isolated when receiving the ball and this negatively impacts passing stats. Ie they are expected to make something out of less, which would suit Sanchos style the least. Bruno's directness, which is a key driver for our team, perhaps also dictates how the rest of the team are 'forced' to perform when playing with that type of teammate
It's so frustrating how many on here are obsessed with every wide attacker having to be a Giggs/young Ronaldo clone or they are considered crap.
As far as Sancho goes, I've said his issue is his complete lack of aggression as a footballer and unwillingness to "go for" anything. He's technically elite and very skilled, but he's basically the anti-Bruno when it comes to trying anything in the final third. He plays like an academy kid getting his first run out and trying not to feck anything up and it's infuriating. I don't know if he'll ever fix that here unless ETH is a guru, but maybe he figures it out at a lower pressure club and then comes back to the top.
Yeah it's the biggest weakness with Bruno as a player, he's not a good carrier or dribbler compared to other 10's. It's most evident in his poor games when he's forcing passes on the counter instead of driving the ball forward himself, or when he receives the ball around the box in tight spaces. Certainly not the biggest of deals but it's a key reason why whoever we bring in for the midfield in the summer needs to be a quality carrier. There are stats on how much lower our midfielders complete dribbles out of pressure or past players compared to say City for instance, and it makes sense when you consider that we struggle against great team presses. It's difficult to ALWAYS play out of a press through perfect one touch passes, often times the best way is to have someone clever on the ball dribble out of the pressure to open up the pitch for runners.
Also last point: Antony needs to fecking learn to pass/create if he ever wants to make it here. Trying to do the Robben impersonation without Robben's skill won't work, and the fact that he leads the team in shots per 90 is damning
Still the same point.
I’m off to the Spurs game tomorrow. I’d be gutted if he’s missing because inevitably we’ll play much more boring football. He’s great.
Excellent point. He clearly shoots too frequently - either he needs to get better at it, or he needs to do it more rarely. Also needs to vary his game more.
Yep. You can afford to be a more direct/non creative winger if you have a profile like Rashford or someone similar where you are an excellent shooter and can create space for yourself with pace and physicality. Otherwise you need to be more clever in how you approach the game in the final third. It's like we have two wingers on opposite ends of the spectrum: Sancho tries to be TOO clever and indirect and it ends up coming off as way too passive, while Antony is almost predictable in what he's looking to do on the ball. Give Sancho the aggression and thrust of Antony and give Antony the footballing IQ of Sancho and we'd be set for years with our wingers
The lack of a clinical finisher is a bit worrying. We would have beat Villa easily if we had a real striker I feel. Really hope we push the boat out for Osimhen or Kane in the summer
Our biggest problem isn't the lack of a striker. It's bad decision-making in the final third from basically all of our forwards+Eriksen with the exception of maybe Sancho.
Crap ones. Rashford aside we don’t have anyone that puts up the numbers needed. It’s not a surprise our goal difference is so bad. We need more then just one striker this summer to sort out our attacking issues. The whole attack needs revamping.
Non-penalty league goals this season before today.
Ronaldo, Martial, Weghorst (combined) - 4 goals - 0.20 goals per 90.
Kane - 20 goals - 0.61 goals per 90.
Osimhen - 21 goals - 0.94 goals per 90.
Hard to overstate the degree to which a top class CF would immediately improve us.
Ronaldo, Martial, Weghorst (combined) - 4 goals - 0.20 goals per 90.
Kane - 20 goals - 0.61 goals per 90.
Osimhen - 21 goals - 0.94 goals per 90.
Hard to overstate the degree to which a top class CF would immediately improve us.
Ones that don't score enough goals. I looked at the amount of goals we scored last season (our worst ever PL season) and we finished with 57. We're on 49 goals this season with 4 games to go. I haven't got the stats but I imagine our chance creation is a fair bit better than last year but we're still struggling to find the back of the net.