What tactics would work?

[Ali Dia]

The buy much better players and coach and manage them well tactic

 

[Lentwood]

Won’t be very popular but I’d say we would be far more successful if we approached every away game as the underdog and likewise every home game against the top six

Reason being, we’re rubbish at defending a high line and rubbish when in possession. Our strengths seem to lie in setting up a low block and pace in transition.

That’s not my answer to how we turn it around long term because that simply requires better players. It is my answer to the question posed by the OP though

 

[Dve]

Against City at their best, you need this:

De Gea

Bissaka - Lindeløf - Jones - Williams

Pereira - Fred

James - Lingard - Rashford

Greenwood


(Ps. Nothing bad on James and Greenwood. None of them were ment to win the PL with United this season, and I love them both).

With this line up - Pulis-tactics would be the better option. Every man in defence.

 

[Charles Miller]

If the team is really strong, any tactics can work. But i only know two approaches in football that allow a weak side to be dominant in a game:
1) lets call it Cruyffism, to be romantic.
2) gegenpressing.

 

[Irwin99]

No I’m not wanting this to turn into an ‘Ole In’ vs ‘Ole Out’ debate, but watching the match here my question is, what tactics WOULD work for us?

What tactics would work to make Fred and Andreas Pereira an effective CM partnership?
What could help the likes of James / Rashford / Greenwood with CMs who aren’t creative?
How do you get output from FBs who are rubbish at attacking?

So essentially my question is, what could any manager do with this squad, without MAJOR surgery, to get anything close to a tune out of them?

I can't say any of this would work but I'd guess at the following

1) Don't play them together. Andreas Pereira has improved a lot over the past few games but just isn't good enough and isn't a midfielder IMO. I understand the reason is the need for energy but there's no control in that midfield with those two. Matic is too slow but he knows the space, so put some energy around him. Roy Keane in his last full season was still a very good player because he could dominate games whilst Fletcher did his running for him in a 4-3-3 system. I'm not saying Matic is anywhere near Keane's level but I don't see why he can't be used in midfield 3 in a similar fashion. It's no coincidence we looked a bit better in the second half when he came on.
2) You can play with two deep midfielders and play on the counter but you need a good number 10 for the creativity. We decided that wasn't a priority in the summer. I think i'd rather just start Mata or Pereira at this point. Lingard has had enough chances.
3) Don't buy them in the first place. Cheating with this answer but come on, it's been a problem for years now.

 

[cnwo]

Ole’s been rigid with his 4231 this season (understandably so in my opinion) but we could’ve done with a wildcard formation/selection to counter city’s setup...maybe Williams as a left midfielder to contain de bruyne instead of Lingard. We rarely change it up anymore since going 3 at the back for a couple games earlier in the season, it was too obvious how we were going to play.

Hindsight 20/20 though

 

[Foxbatt]

No I’m not wanting this to turn into an ‘Ole In’ vs ‘Ole Out’ debate, but watching the match here my question is, what tactics WOULD work for us?

What tactics would work to make Fred and Andreas Pereira an effective CM partnership?
What could help the likes of James / Rashford / Greenwood with CMs who aren’t creative?
How do you get output from FBs who are rubbish at attacking?

So essentially my question is, what could any manager do with this squad, without MAJOR surgery, to get anything close to a tune out of them?

You can't because in most matches a two man midfield is going to get over run by a 4 man or a 5 man midfield. We need to go to a diamond and that means dropping Rashford or Martial to the bench. With this lot we have the only solution is to play Matic as the holding midfield player and since we do not have Scott or Pogba, it is going to be a desperate situation. We have to play Fred as the attacking midfield player and I know people will jump up but play Jones in midfield and I would play Young or Shaw in midfield. Their job is not to create but carry the ball for Fred or the two strikers. They have a very important part to play. They need to get the defenders tired. And then remove them and put on James and Greenwood around the 60 minutes mark or so.

 

[devilish]

CM is weak hence flood it with personnel. Bring back 4-3-3 with DDG/Romero in goal, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof and Williams in defence, Matic, Garner and Fred in CM, Rashford and Greenwood on the flanks and Martial upfront.

 

[romufc]

CM is weak hence flood it with personnel. Bring back 4-3-3 with DDG/Romero in goal, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof and Williams in defence, Matic, Garner and Fred in CM, Rashford and Greenwood on the flanks and Martial upfront.

Playing City who love playing CM's and we end up playing one CM, one make shift and Rashford not tracking back. We absolutely got outnumbered in midfield.

Starting Lingard = 10 men = loss.

Lingard has not been able to keep the ball, pass the ball, even his pressing has been poor for a while now.

 

[devilish]

Playing City who love playing CM's and we end up playing one CM, one make shift and Rashford not tracking back. We absolutely got outnumbered in midfield.

Starting Lingard = 10 men = loss.

Lingard has not been able to keep the ball, pass the ball, even his pressing has been poor for a while now.

I am also talking in general. This 4-2-3-1 crap isn't working. We've got a no 10 with zero assists and goals + a midfielder (Matic) who simply can't play that role. Therefore, unless we're making some solid signings in January then 4-3-3 is the way to go. Flood our weakest position with personnel. Matic at the back of Fred and Periera/Garner could do the trick.

 

[romufc]

I am also talking in general. This 4-2-3-1 crap isn't working. We've got a no 10 with zero assists and goals + a midfielder (Matic) who simply can't play that role. Therefore, unless we're making some solid signings in January then 4-3-3 is the way to go. Flood our weakest position with personnel. Matic at the back of Fred and Periera/Garner could do the trick.

I agree, we keep getting dominated in the midfield every game.

Its not as if we have a world class no. 10 that can't be dropped.

It has to be 4-3-3 which also gives cover to the full backs because it seems Rashford has been told not to track his man.

Surely, that will give this team a better balance?

 

[Mainoldo]

New regime new manager.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Disappointing lack of the Paul Ince "shoot" gif in this thread.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Denis79]

The basics of football would improve us. Moving so you give the ballholder an option would do a world of difference.

 

[Sky1981]

A good and well coached (put any tactics here) can work to some extent.

What's a formation anyways, 20 teams in the epl plays the variant of 442,451 and probably and odd 433.

 

[Sky1981]

Being successful in football is all about recruitment, as Pep has said many times.

Ours has been shit for a number of years, except last summer under Ole.

Some of our performances have been very promising and that is something to build on, but to expect it every week from this group of players is insane. Let's see where we our after next summer. If things don't improve next season then Ole should go, but to expect miracles from him now is unfair.

Why is it insane to expect players to perform every week??

Most of liverpoil squad does it, city as well, madrid, barcelona, even united in the past.

We're not talking about not having a stinker, a bad game every 15 games is about the standard with saf, our players bad games is every other fortnight.

 

[Farfetched]

Play as a team; too often in a game we look like three separate units forgetting we defend as a team and attack as a team. Too often the defenders are hung out to dry as other players have not tracked back and the attackers runs have been ignored/unseen. Strength from unity, simply be United.

 

[Bestietom]

The tactic of replacing players when we sell.

 

[devilish]

I agree, we keep getting dominated in the midfield every game.

Its not as if we have a world class no. 10 that can't be dropped.

It has to be 4-3-3 which also gives cover to the full backs because it seems Rashford has been told not to track his man.

Surely, that will give this team a better balance?

There's no point moaning about Matic being slow, we don't have quality in CM yada yada yada. If Matic is slow then bring someone who does the running for him. If quality is an issue then flood the damn department so at least we can kick the hell out of the superior CM our opponent's have. I am sick of this philosophy BS (Mou/LVG/Ole had/has it). Do you think that Sir Alex who used to have Robson, Scholes, Ince, Keane and Veron in midfield liked having Cleverley in CM? Of course not. Yet Clev was necessary to do the running for the ageing players.

United trumps everything. Its trumps the manager's ideology, it trumps the United way (whatever that means), it trumps kids and culture......Manchester United is what matters

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Won’t be very popular but I’d say we would be far more successful if we approached every away game as the underdog and likewise every home game against the top six

Reason being, we’re rubbish at defending a high line and rubbish when in possession. Our strengths seem to lie in setting up a low block and pace in transition.

That’s not my answer to how we turn it around long term because that simply requires better players. It is my answer to the question posed by the OP though

We have built our team to sit deep and counter, so it would surprise me if this was not the main (only) approach to get some results, other than "luck" and "coincidences" which are our approach to create chances.

It would be easier to identify better players if we had an approach on how to play football that was not from the last millennium.

 

[Lentwood]

We have built our team to sit deep and counter, so it would surprise me if this was not the main (only) approach to get some results, other than "luck" and "coincidences" which are our approach to create chances.

It would be easier to identify better players if we had an approach on how to play football that was not from the last millennium.

That's true when we play the top six but if you look at our away games against bottom-half teams, we will have had more possession in most, if not all, of these games

What I'm saying, in answer to the question 'how can we get the most possible points THIS season' is let's sit deep on the edge of our own penalty area (like teams do to us), let them have the ball (like teams do to us) and say 'come on then, break us down'.

It's far, far easier in football to be the 'defensive' counter-punching team. Jose Mourniho worked that out twenty years ago. It is incredibly difficult to play offensive football and break down teams who are setting up with a low-block. This is where coaches like Pep come in. They have perfected the art of managing top, top teams who will have 80% of the ball every week and break down teams with two banks of five defending their own half

 

[Fosu-Mens]

That's true when we play the top six but if you look at our away games against bottom-half teams, we will have had more possession in most, if not all, of these games

What I'm saying, in answer to the question 'how can we get the most possible points THIS season' is let's sit deep on the edge of our own penalty area (like teams do to us), let them have the ball (like teams do to us) and say 'come on then, break us down'.

It's far, far easier in football to be the 'defensive' counter-punching team. Jose Mourniho worked that out twenty years ago. It is incredibly difficult to play offensive football and break down teams who are setting up with a low-block. This is where coaches like Pep come in. They have perfected the art of managing top, top teams who will have 80% of the ball every week and break down teams with two banks of five defending their own half

We have more possession because the other team does not need to win, they would be happy with a point... It is not like we "want" to have the ball, just that we are the ones that have the "pressure" on us to attack. But just for this season, then yes, Counter attacking is our best approach to get points.

Defensive counter football was way more effective before, with teams being less tactically aware, and willing to take more risks. The amount of counterattacks per game on average has dropped and will continue to drop over the last 10 years. Mourinho football might be the best approach to get your team midtable if you lack quality, but it will be extremely difficult to compete for anything major with this type of football. The best teams in the world will get better and better at breaking down defences.

 

[Lentwood]

We have more possession because the other team does not need to win, they would be happy with a point... It is not like we "want" to have the ball, just that we are the ones that have the "pressure" on us to attack. But just for this season, then yes, Counter attacking is our best approach to get points.

Defensive counter football was way more effective before, with teams being less tactically aware, and willing to take more risks. The amount of counterattacks per game on average has dropped and will continue to drop over the last 10 years. Mourinho football might be the best approach to get your team midtable if you lack quality, but it will be extremely difficult to compete for anything major with this type of football. The best teams in the world will get better and better at breaking down defences.

I agree with both of those statements but remember what the OP was asking....what can WE do with THESE players THIS season

I'm saying we're not good enough to control possession and break teams down, so let's try and lure the likes of Everton, West Ham, Newcastle etc....into attacking us. Granted, this is no long-term way to play football for a club like Manchester Utd but that's not what the OP asked

 

[Fosu-Mens]

I agree with both of those statements but remember what the OP was asking....what can WE do with THESE players THIS season

I'm saying we're not good enough to control possession and break teams down, so let's try and lure the likes of Everton, West Ham, Newcastle etc....into attacking us. Granted, this is no long-term way to play football for a club like Manchester Utd but that's not what the OP asked

That's fair. I just don't see why we should not sack OGS now and appoint a more relevant manager (as in: prefers to play a type of football that can be competitive at the highest level long term) to make the assessment of the squad and start with the coaching on how to play a more relevant type of football. Better long term to do make this change than continue with our current stone-age approach.

 

[sugar_kane]

Our obsession with playing it out from the back is past the point of absurdity now, we don't have the midfield to make this work and yet we try it over and over again.

Last night every single time De Gea had the ball it was passed to one of our centre backs who tried the usual slow build approach which would inevitably come to nothing.

I'm not advocating De Gea hoofing it out every time (because he is terrible at this and it causes us even more problems) but we need to stop expecting that we will magically be able to play like peak Barcelona without the personnel.

Also our players need to move and create passing options - we were so static every time we won the ball last night it was really frustrating to watch.

 

[padr81]

It depends on your goals, you have enough individual quality to win one off games vs the big sides here and there but not enough quality for consistently winning.

You simply are relying on Martial and Rashford to carry you every game, regardless of tactic thats not happening. You look at City, Aguero and Sterling have poor games, KDB and Mahrez step up etc.. With Liverpool Salah and Firmino have a poor game Mane steps up. Mane has a poor game Origi steps up.

You are at your best on the break playing with pace and power. Martial, Rashford, James is a pacy a front line as anywhere. Man for man you are just not good enough to win games consistently. You could try and play better football but when Pogba's injured/on strike/whatever you guys have no creative player with an eye for a pass to break down teams. You need teams to come on to you because that's the type of players you have at the club. Your issues are poor recruitment. No tactic is going to fix that.