Ali Dia
Full Member
The buy much better players and coach and manage them well tactic
I can't say any of this would work but I'd guess at the followingNo I’m not wanting this to turn into an ‘Ole In’ vs ‘Ole Out’ debate, but watching the match here my question is, what tactics WOULD work for us?
What tactics would work to make Fred and Andreas Pereira an effective CM partnership?
What could help the likes of James / Rashford / Greenwood with CMs who aren’t creative?
How do you get output from FBs who are rubbish at attacking?
So essentially my question is, what could any manager do with this squad, without MAJOR surgery, to get anything close to a tune out of them?
You can't because in most matches a two man midfield is going to get over run by a 4 man or a 5 man midfield. We need to go to a diamond and that means dropping Rashford or Martial to the bench. With this lot we have the only solution is to play Matic as the holding midfield player and since we do not have Scott or Pogba, it is going to be a desperate situation. We have to play Fred as the attacking midfield player and I know people will jump up but play Jones in midfield and I would play Young or Shaw in midfield. Their job is not to create but carry the ball for Fred or the two strikers. They have a very important part to play. They need to get the defenders tired. And then remove them and put on James and Greenwood around the 60 minutes mark or so.No I’m not wanting this to turn into an ‘Ole In’ vs ‘Ole Out’ debate, but watching the match here my question is, what tactics WOULD work for us?
What tactics would work to make Fred and Andreas Pereira an effective CM partnership?
What could help the likes of James / Rashford / Greenwood with CMs who aren’t creative?
How do you get output from FBs who are rubbish at attacking?
So essentially my question is, what could any manager do with this squad, without MAJOR surgery, to get anything close to a tune out of them?
Playing City who love playing CM's and we end up playing one CM, one make shift and Rashford not tracking back. We absolutely got outnumbered in midfield.CM is weak hence flood it with personnel. Bring back 4-3-3 with DDG/Romero in goal, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof and Williams in defence, Matic, Garner and Fred in CM, Rashford and Greenwood on the flanks and Martial upfront.
I am also talking in general. This 4-2-3-1 crap isn't working. We've got a no 10 with zero assists and goals + a midfielder (Matic) who simply can't play that role. Therefore, unless we're making some solid signings in January then 4-3-3 is the way to go. Flood our weakest position with personnel. Matic at the back of Fred and Periera/Garner could do the trick.Playing City who love playing CM's and we end up playing one CM, one make shift and Rashford not tracking back. We absolutely got outnumbered in midfield.
Starting Lingard = 10 men = loss.
Lingard has not been able to keep the ball, pass the ball, even his pressing has been poor for a while now.
I agree, we keep getting dominated in the midfield every game.I am also talking in general. This 4-2-3-1 crap isn't working. We've got a no 10 with zero assists and goals + a midfielder (Matic) who simply can't play that role. Therefore, unless we're making some solid signings in January then 4-3-3 is the way to go. Flood our weakest position with personnel. Matic at the back of Fred and Periera/Garner could do the trick.
Why is it insane to expect players to perform every week??Being successful in football is all about recruitment, as Pep has said many times.
Ours has been shit for a number of years, except last summer under Ole.
Some of our performances have been very promising and that is something to build on, but to expect it every week from this group of players is insane. Let's see where we our after next summer. If things don't improve next season then Ole should go, but to expect miracles from him now is unfair.
There's no point moaning about Matic being slow, we don't have quality in CM yada yada yada. If Matic is slow then bring someone who does the running for him. If quality is an issue then flood the damn department so at least we can kick the hell out of the superior CM our opponent's have. I am sick of this philosophy BS (Mou/LVG/Ole had/has it). Do you think that Sir Alex who used to have Robson, Scholes, Ince, Keane and Veron in midfield liked having Cleverley in CM? Of course not. Yet Clev was necessary to do the running for the ageing players.I agree, we keep getting dominated in the midfield every game.
Its not as if we have a world class no. 10 that can't be dropped.
It has to be 4-3-3 which also gives cover to the full backs because it seems Rashford has been told not to track his man.
Surely, that will give this team a better balance?
We have built our team to sit deep and counter, so it would surprise me if this was not the main (only) approach to get some results, other than "luck" and "coincidences" which are our approach to create chances.Won’t be very popular but I’d say we would be far more successful if we approached every away game as the underdog and likewise every home game against the top six
Reason being, we’re rubbish at defending a high line and rubbish when in possession. Our strengths seem to lie in setting up a low block and pace in transition.
That’s not my answer to how we turn it around long term because that simply requires better players. It is my answer to the question posed by the OP though
That's true when we play the top six but if you look at our away games against bottom-half teams, we will have had more possession in most, if not all, of these gamesWe have built our team to sit deep and counter, so it would surprise me if this was not the main (only) approach to get some results, other than "luck" and "coincidences" which are our approach to create chances.
It would be easier to identify better players if we had an approach on how to play football that was not from the last millennium.
We have more possession because the other team does not need to win, they would be happy with a point... It is not like we "want" to have the ball, just that we are the ones that have the "pressure" on us to attack. But just for this season, then yes, Counter attacking is our best approach to get points.That's true when we play the top six but if you look at our away games against bottom-half teams, we will have had more possession in most, if not all, of these games
What I'm saying, in answer to the question 'how can we get the most possible points THIS season' is let's sit deep on the edge of our own penalty area (like teams do to us), let them have the ball (like teams do to us) and say 'come on then, break us down'.
It's far, far easier in football to be the 'defensive' counter-punching team. Jose Mourniho worked that out twenty years ago. It is incredibly difficult to play offensive football and break down teams who are setting up with a low-block. This is where coaches like Pep come in. They have perfected the art of managing top, top teams who will have 80% of the ball every week and break down teams with two banks of five defending their own half
I agree with both of those statements but remember what the OP was asking....what can WE do with THESE players THIS seasonWe have more possession because the other team does not need to win, they would be happy with a point... It is not like we "want" to have the ball, just that we are the ones that have the "pressure" on us to attack. But just for this season, then yes, Counter attacking is our best approach to get points.
Defensive counter football was way more effective before, with teams being less tactically aware, and willing to take more risks. The amount of counterattacks per game on average has dropped and will continue to drop over the last 10 years. Mourinho football might be the best approach to get your team midtable if you lack quality, but it will be extremely difficult to compete for anything major with this type of football. The best teams in the world will get better and better at breaking down defences.
That's fair. I just don't see why we should not sack OGS now and appoint a more relevant manager (as in: prefers to play a type of football that can be competitive at the highest level long term) to make the assessment of the squad and start with the coaching on how to play a more relevant type of football. Better long term to do make this change than continue with our current stone-age approach.I agree with both of those statements but remember what the OP was asking....what can WE do with THESE players THIS season
I'm saying we're not good enough to control possession and break teams down, so let's try and lure the likes of Everton, West Ham, Newcastle etc....into attacking us. Granted, this is no long-term way to play football for a club like Manchester Utd but that's not what the OP asked