What the league table actually looks like
- Thread starter Gandalf Greyhame
- Start date
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
30th Dec, 2020
32 Liverpool
31
30 Man Utd
29 Leicester, Everton
28
27
26 Villa, Chelsea, Spurs, Man City, Southampton
25
24
23 West Ham, Leeds
22
21 Wolves
20 Arsenal
19 Palace
18 Newcastle
17
16 Burnley
15
14
13 Brighton
12
11 Fulham
10
9
8 West Brom
7
6
5
4
3
2 Sheffield Utd
32 Liverpool
31
30 Man Utd
29 Leicester, Everton
28
27
26 Villa, Chelsea, Spurs, Man City, Southampton
25
24
23 West Ham, Leeds
22
21 Wolves
20 Arsenal
19 Palace
18 Newcastle
17
16 Burnley
15
14
13 Brighton
12
11 Fulham
10
9
8 West Brom
7
6
5
4
3
2 Sheffield Utd
4th January 2021
33 - Liverpool / Man Utd*
32 - Leicester
31
30
29 Tottenham* / Man City** / Southampton / Everton*
28
27
26 - Villa** / Chelsea / West Ham
25
24
23 - Arsenal / Leeds
22 - Wolves / Palace
21
20
19 - Newcastle*
18
17
16 - Burnley**
15
14 - Brighton
13
12
11 - Fulham**
10
-9
-8 - West Brom
-7
-6
-5
-4
-3
-2 - Sheffield Utd
* = Number of games in hand
33 - Liverpool / Man Utd*
32 - Leicester
31
30
29 Tottenham* / Man City** / Southampton / Everton*
28
27
26 - Villa** / Chelsea / West Ham
25
24
23 - Arsenal / Leeds
22 - Wolves / Palace
21
20
19 - Newcastle*
18
17
16 - Burnley**
15
14 - Brighton
13
12
11 - Fulham**
10
-9
-8 - West Brom
-7
-6
-5
-4
-3
-2 - Sheffield Utd
* = Number of games in hand
Burnley is such a key game. Win that and we go 3 points ahead of Liverpool right before going to Anfield, which should give the players a lot of confidence to play for the win. I haven't been this excited about football in a very long time, let's hope we can keep looking forward to a title race for the whole season
City is ahead of Liverpool on points lost, so perhaps they are also our biggest title rival this year
Winning vs Burnley would be huge but I've got a feeling we won't... just simply the way football works. The footy gods won't give us this win, they want us level when we face the scouse.
I get that feeling too, but I hope the lads are fired up and we smash them.
If we kick the shit out of them and win 2/3 nil it's fecking party time
Games in hand are no guarantee but it's all still very tight at the top once you take them into account.
I feel like I'm going to saying this all year but the next four games are massive for our season.
I feel like I'm going to saying this all year but the next four games are massive for our season.
I do feel City are getting rated higher the more games in hand they have.
Its too easy to say win their 2 games in hand and theyre in x position when those 2 games are Everton away and Villa.
Their next 6 games are pretty easy bar Villa. If they get 15 - 16 out of the next easy 18 no doubt they will end up in the mix up top. I think the table will look very interesting by the end of Jan.
Best season in well over a decade. Feels like forever since the last proper title race with several teams in the mix including us.
I'm not only talking about City. Although they have a fairly easy run coming up bar the game against Villa.
There are 6 teams within pissing distance of the top.
Over the next 10 games, we'll see who's really in the race.
So is ours as well. It could well be the 2 Manchester clubs in the title race by March but I do wonder if its the bottom sides that will cause them problems in trying to break them down with low blocks when they have lessened their attacking output by so much.
I cant see Jesus going on an 8 on 8 run this season.
We haven't even reached halfway yet in games played and we all know when teams have led at the halfway stage, usually new year, some have fecked up big style, and Utd have experienced the ups and down of this. Let's get past another 10 games and see where we are on the run in. We have a fantastic chance let's not jinx it.
I really don't know why you interpret everything said to be against us? I'm just saying they are well in the mix that's all, regardless of us, they will definitely be more of a challenger than Leicester and Spurs.
I havent!? Im just pointing out City doesnt really have an advantage against us fixture wise
No one said that in this thread as far as I'm concerned.
Really amazed at how shit Sheffield United have been. Can only see that gap widening.
I guarantee you Scott McTominay WILL look at the league table if we beat Burnley !
Your only has good as your last game I feel, and I thought we did very well against Villa, we should have got more goals. Burnley is always tough, they will dig in protect and try and get something from set pieces . I think we should get a positive result before we go to Anfield. They will bottle it in FA cup against Villa on weekend because they will keep there players for UTD.
Can see a awkward game on the 17th, but I can see UTD getting another positive result .
Can see a awkward game on the 17th, but I can see UTD getting another positive result .
Yes. So true. We're not even halfway yet. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. For perspective, between 1st and 10th is only 7 points. One game at a time.
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One game at a time for certain.
But if we could be top, at least on points by the other side of the Arsenal away game we'd be in a superb position.
But if we could be top, at least on points by the other side of the Arsenal away game we'd be in a superb position.
14th January
36 - Man Utd
35
34
33 - Liverpool
32 - Man City* /Leicester / Everton
31
30 - Tottenham
29 - Southampton
28
27
26 - Villa** / Chelsea / West Ham
25
24 - Arsenal
23 - Leeds / Palace
22 - Wolves
21
20
19 - Newcastle
18
17
16 - Burnley*
15
14 - Brighton
13
12 - Fulham*
11
10
-9
-8 - West Brom
-7
-6
-5 - Sheffield Utd
* = Number of games in hand
Arsenal, Palace, Brighton, Wolves and Sheff Utd have played 18 games
36 - Man Utd
35
34
33 - Liverpool
32 - Man City* /Leicester / Everton
31
30 - Tottenham
29 - Southampton
28
27
26 - Villa** / Chelsea / West Ham
25
24 - Arsenal
23 - Leeds / Palace
22 - Wolves
21
20
19 - Newcastle
18
17
16 - Burnley*
15
14 - Brighton
13
12 - Fulham*
11
10
-9
-8 - West Brom
-7
-6
-5 - Sheffield Utd
* = Number of games in hand
Arsenal, Palace, Brighton, Wolves and Sheff Utd have played 18 games
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16th - 18th January
40
39
38
37 - Man Utd
36
35 - Man City* / Leicester
34 - Liverpool
33 - Tottenham
32 - Everton*
31
30
29 - Chelsea / Southampton / West Ham
28
27 - Arsenal
26 - Villa**
25
24
23 - Leeds / Palace
22 - Wolves
21
20
19 - Newcastle
18
17 - Brighton
16 - Burnley*
15
14
13
12 - Fulham*
11 - West Brom
10
-9
-8
-7
-6
-5 - Sheffield Utd
* = Number of games in hand
40
39
38
37 - Man Utd
36
35 - Man City* / Leicester
34 - Liverpool
33 - Tottenham
32 - Everton*
31
30
29 - Chelsea / Southampton / West Ham
28
27 - Arsenal
26 - Villa**
25
24
23 - Leeds / Palace
22 - Wolves
21
20
19 - Newcastle
18
17 - Brighton
16 - Burnley*
15
14
13
12 - Fulham*
11 - West Brom
10
-9
-8
-7
-6
-5 - Sheffield Utd
* = Number of games in hand
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Everton have a game in hand.
Edited...
I will update that table with tomorrow's games then post a new table for the mid week matches.
Villa v City is a massive game for Villa. They need to take points, 3 hopefully, from that game.
Top of the league but also not that much ahead of 6th place!
This is what it currently looks like on projected points:
1 | Manchester City | 35 | 17 | 2,1 | 78,2 |
2 | Manchester United | 37 | 18 | 2,1 | 78,1 |
3 | Leicester | 35 | 18 | 1,9 | 73,9 |
4 | Liverpool | 34 | 18 | 1,9 | 71,8 |
5 | Everton | 32 | 17 | 1,9 | 71,5 |
6 | Tottenham | 33 | 18 | 1,8 | 69,7 |
7 | Aston Villa | 26 | 15 | 1,7 | 65,9 |
8 | Southampton | 29 | 18 | 1,6 | 61,2 |
9 | West Ham | 29 | 18 | 1,6 | 61,2 |
10 | Chelsea | 29 | 18 | 1,6 | 61,2 |
11 | Arsenal | 24 | 18 | 1,3 | 50,7 |
12 | Leeds | 23 | 18 | 1,3 | 48,6 |
13 | Crystal Palace | 23 | 18 | 1,3 | 48,6 |
14 | Wolves | 22 | 19 | 1,2 | 44,0 |
15 | Newcastle | 19 | 17 | 1,1 | 42,5 |
16 | Brighton | 17 | 18 | 0,9 | 35,9 |
17 | Burnley | 16 | 18 | 0,9 | 33,8 |
18 | Fulham | 12 | 18 | 0,7 | 25,3 |
19 | West Bromwich | 11 | 18 | 0,6 | 23,2 |
20 | Sheffield United | 5 | 19 | 0,3 | 10,0 |
nearly a year ago we were 30 points behind Liverpool!
Whose projections are these exactly?
Current PPG averages by the looks of things.
No ones. It's points gained divided by games played x38. In other words, how the final table will look if everyone continues to win points to the same degree that they have so far. It's really just a way of clarifying what performance so far implies for the season as a whole, as well as to adjust for the difference in games played.
Oh, OK. I mean PPG and 'projected points are very different things.
Also Burnley have only played 17 games.
I'm failing to understand what your numbers mean. I'm guessing the far right is points based off average ppg so far, but what do the first 3 columns mean? Maybe an abbreviation over top will help.
FiveThirtyEight (yes, the guys that does all the us election stuff) actually have a table like this too.
Explanation of SPI Ratings:
"At the heart of our club soccer forecasts are FiveThirtyEight’s SPI ratings, which are our best estimate of a team’s overall strength. In our system, every team has an offensive rating that represents the number of goals it would be expected to score against an average team on a neutral field, and a defensive rating that represents the number of goals it would be expected to concede. These ratings, in turn, produce an overall SPI rating, which represents the percentage of available points — a win is worth 3 points, a tie worth 1 point, and a loss worth 0 points — the team would be expected to take if that match were played over and over again.
Given the ratings for any two teams, we can project the result of a match between them in a variety of formats — such as a league match, a home-and-away tie or a cup final — as well as simulate whole seasons to arrive at the probability each team will win the league, qualify for the Champions League or be relegated to a lower division."
[Longer, very detailed explanation]
(These guys are very good with election projections)
What points total do people think will win the league?
The range from 2017 to last year was 93-100
Fair to say it will be nowhere near that this season. Man. United can only get to 97 points if you win every single league game left so less than the league winners of last three seasons and can only drop points in one more game to beat Chelsea's 93 total from 2017.
Man. City win their next two and they're on course for 82 points over the season and that tally sounds about right to me although currently Man. City don't look the sort who'll be dropping as many point as they did in the first two months of the season.
Will go safe and say anyone who gets 85 points are 99.9% sure to be 1st and it could be a point or two lower.
That's still a good tally to win a league but just shows the abnormal recent seasons not just in prem but in other leagues as likes of Juve, Bayern Munich, Barca and Real Madrid all look like they'll be way down on what they've averaged over last decade so shows what a great leveller disrupted pre season has been.
Just seen the post above.....looks quite accurate I'd say in terms of points totals for top half although Arsenal finishing bottom half on 55 points is a bit mad!
The range from 2017 to last year was 93-100
Fair to say it will be nowhere near that this season. Man. United can only get to 97 points if you win every single league game left so less than the league winners of last three seasons and can only drop points in one more game to beat Chelsea's 93 total from 2017.
Man. City win their next two and they're on course for 82 points over the season and that tally sounds about right to me although currently Man. City don't look the sort who'll be dropping as many point as they did in the first two months of the season.
Will go safe and say anyone who gets 85 points are 99.9% sure to be 1st and it could be a point or two lower.
That's still a good tally to win a league but just shows the abnormal recent seasons not just in prem but in other leagues as likes of Juve, Bayern Munich, Barca and Real Madrid all look like they'll be way down on what they've averaged over last decade so shows what a great leveller disrupted pre season has been.
Just seen the post above.....looks quite accurate I'd say in terms of points totals for top half although Arsenal finishing bottom half on 55 points is a bit mad!
80 odd should win it. Im not buying this City reveival just yet, theyve only beaten 2 of the top 10 as it stands and their recent run is against average opposition, plus Southampton who could easily have got a draw imo.
(These guys are very good with election projections)
Except when they're not.
Except when they're not.