What will you do if LVG stays next season?

VP89

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I'd say get behind the team and the manager for his final season, but if the same extended lapse happens next year then protests etc. will occur, and rightly so if most supporters saw the poor form coming a year away.

There is support and there is blind support - I don't think we should harm our on pitch performances but at the same time we shouldn't allow an inept board to do the same.
 

Mr. Meeseeks

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Thats the wrong question for me. The real question is what I'd do if he stays and continues to play the same football he has played for most of this season.

I think theres a real possibility that I could stop watching football all together. Im honestly not ready for another season of the boring shit he's played most of the season. One can only endure so much until they start exclusively watching MoTD. And as an Aussie, I'd look forward to getting my Sunday mornings back.

That been said, LVG has played some good football in patches (particularly when Luke Shaw was fit). If he stays and becomes consistent then I dont think I'd mind all that much. Id much rather have Mourinho though
 

Tincanalley

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Thats the wrong question for me. The real question is what I'd do if he stays and continues to play the same football he has played for most of this season.
Good answer; though I don't entirely agree. I think they have played some good stuff and some tumescent stuff, would not paint it all with same brush
I think theres a real possibility that I could stop watching football all together. Im honestly not ready for another season of the boring shit he's played most of the season. One can only endure so much until they start exclusively watching MoTD. And as an Aussie, I'd look forward to getting my Sunday mornings back.
Holy cow. I can't even think of a response to this. Sums up this place. Exclusively watching MoTD? I am reaching for the oxygen here...
That been said, LVG has played some good football in patches (particularly when Luke Shaw was fit). If he stays and becomes consistent then I dont think I'd mind all that much.
Ah. Head snaps back in the opposite direction. Tennis, anyone?
Id much rather have Mourinho though
I wonder if that bus has trundled past and will soon be parked in a street far, far away.
 

Mr. Meeseeks

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Good answer; though I don't entirely agree. I think they have played some good stuff and some tumescent stuff, would not paint it all with same brush

Holy cow. I can't even think of a response to this. Sums up this place. Exclusively watching MoTD? I am reaching for the oxygen here...

Ah. Head snaps back in the opposite direction. Tennis, anyone?

I wonder if that bus has trundled past and will soon be parked in a street far, far away.
I'm not proud of it, maybe I'm a 'worse' fan than you. But we've given some truly soul crushing performances this season and I think everyone has their limits
 

devilish

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LVG is staying. Get over it.

After LVG, Giggs will take over
 

Tincanalley

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I'm not proud of it, maybe I'm a 'worse' fan than you. But we've given some truly soul crushing performances this season and I think everyone has their limits
Hi TV7 no, I don't think I am a better fan than you. I am a supporter, but no better or worse than any other. I just find your way of looking at things really different to my own. I know you live on the other side of the planet and it is the support of people like yourself that has contributed to making United such a worldwide brand. I am from Ireland after all, and when I was a kid the English football was a kind of fantasy place. We could go to see Sligo Rovers or whatever foreign clubs came but Old Trafford was just a dream. In fact, I started off as a kid supporting Arsenal! :o//
So no, I am not superior to anyone. But being restricted to a diet of MoTD would be a fate worse than death, and anyway, I think its an exciting end to season, I am hoping United win the Cup and end up in the Champions League and I will get royally pissed to celebrate if they do, preferably in the company of United supporters.
 

junglemusic

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If I want to watch crap, uninspiring football next season, I can do that locally, not travel a 400 mile round trip and £100+ expense for the pleasure. (Hi Swindon!)

I wont be renewing my membership if Van Gaal remains in charge.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Keep supporting as usual. Be a bit sad as plastic fans continue to fall away, but know that it's normal and has happened at plenty of clubs in the past
Don't worry about the plastic fans, if they are only with us through success then they are not worth the fretting. I want us to get that Top 4 and the F.A. Cup. If it means he stays well I will just have to put up with it and hope someone better comes along in 12 months and that it isn't Giggs. I would not be wanting us to lose tonight and lose the F.A. Cup just to get rid.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I'd say get behind the team and the manager for his final season, but if the same extended lapse happens next year then protests etc. will occur, and rightly so if most supporters saw the poor form coming a year away.

There is support and there is blind support - I don't think we should harm our on pitch performances but at the same time we shouldn't allow an inept board to do the same.
If we get the same inept performances in Europe again he will be gone. Then that will be down to the board and they will have to deal with the consequencies. If at that time there are no decent managers about then that is down to them. If Giggs is only thinking of himself and won't do the job until the end of the season, then that doesn't say much for him. Just hope we can improve. Getting Top 4 this season might help. An F.A. Cup will give the players a taste for winning trophies.
 

VP89

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If we get the same inept performances in Europe again he will be gone. Then that will be down to the board and they will have to deal with the consequencies. If at that time there are no decent managers about then that is down to them. If Giggs is only thinking of himself and won't do the job until the end of the season, then that doesn't say much for him. Just hope we can improve. Getting Top 4 this season might help. An F.A. Cup will give the players a taste for winning trophies.
I reckon there will be competent managers available. I have a managerial crush on Koeman right now and would love it if he became our manager :devil:
 

JohnnyKills

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Don't worry about the plastic fans, if they are only with us through success then they are not worth the fretting. I want us to get that Top 4 and the F.A. Cup. If it means he stays well I will just have to put up with it and hope someone better comes along in 12 months and that it isn't Giggs. I would not be wanting us to lose tonight and lose the F.A. Cup just to get rid.
Plastic fans? You're offending a lot of people who've devoted a lot of years to following United there pal.

Hope your blind faith and misguided definition of loyalty sustains you next season.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Plastic fans? You're offending a lot of people who've devoted a lot of years to following United there pal.

Hope your blind faith and misguided definition of loyalty sustains you next season.
I didn't mention plastic fans in that post. Yes some have invested a lot of time, but there will be plenty out there, not on here, who skip from one team to another depending on who is the trendy team at that time. If we get Top4 and a cup that isn't exactly bad times. I bet Aston Villa fans wish they were in our situation. The football isn't great, but if we can get some bite in the midfield and some more speed in the attacks that really could change.
 

SqueakyWeasel

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If he stays because of 4th place and an FA Cup win it will be a travesty and next year will be an even worse nightmare than this season has been IMHO. I never thought I'd struggle to be excited about watching Manchester United on match day.

For me, there really are NO plus points:

Has "LvG" achieved anything anyway?
Even if United get 4th I think it'll be in spite of LvG and his non-existent philosophy not because of him. He won't have won us 4th place or "tactically" beaten City to 4th – they screwed it up and we're merely limping over the line thanks to them, if indeed we do which remains to be seen. I personally think he knows he's off either way and doesn't care about CL next season, he only wants the FA cup for his CV – but that's for another thread.

Low scoring (boring) philosophy
Look at the top 4 GD (all 4 teams on around 30 points currently) … we're on fecking 13!!! Think about that for a second, in 36 matches we have only managed a balance of around one goal every 3 games more than our opposition (fallen from an average of 40-50 in the last 22 odd seasons of SAF reign and don't say that's not relevant either). Very seldom does GD lie looking at the final standings year-on-year, barring one or two anomalies it tends to be quite an accurate indication of final placement historically (especially in the top half of the table) and is also normally a nod towards the type of football played to get there. With a GD of 13 we have no real right to expect CL Football next season. And does anyone want to see us struggling against the likes of Eindhoven under him again anyway (especially after we just paid them a fortune for their star player)?

Why let LvG be involved in purchases for our future if we know he's off at the end of next year?
We know the sort of football that he wants to play. It's the one that 99.9% of the fans complain about week-in week-out! So why keep him on for another year and more importantly, as he's off at the end of next season anyway, why let him dictate purchases if he's betraying our playing DNA and we will be reverting to type once he's off? I don't understand why any more (sometimes ridiculous amounts of) money should be spent on taking "proven" quality footballers and allowing him to turn them into robots, complaining about them like some strict out-of-touch public school headmaster would his young charges, and then throwing everything out of the window and playing Fellaini in their place anyway? Not sure too many more agents will want their players coming to United while he's still here anyway, after seeing the stock of the likes of Scheiderlin, Memphis and Herrera et.al. fall so far.

Slow (boring) philosophy
We're all screaming out for Woody to buy some super-fast players to speed up our style of attack but what's the point if Louie will insist on the new ones playing such a slow sideways and backwards possession-stat-based build-up game (most importantly IMHO) with virtually no forward movement from players off the ball. He's imprinted his mind-numbing "possession at all costs" style of static football on our players and changed us from an historically renowned speedy, multi-facetted attacking team to the safe, boring, slow build-up play we see every week. I'm fed up of having to bear Sourness, Carragher, and co pointing out, often correctly (which makes it worse), the same deficiencies week after week and then hearing LvG bragging about the possession stats in post match pressers as if they are a badge of honour.


Shooting down the philosophy continued)
We used to have around 20 shots at goal per game, now we're lucky to have one per half. It's so obvious to me, more shots on goal equals more chances to score! It's no co-incidence that our reputation for winning penalties and getting OGs came during a stage when we spent as much time as possible with the ball in the opposition box, along with the speed with which we got it there and knocked it around. With this style of play, even speculative shots cause panic and mistakes amongst opposition defences. Yes they don't always (or even often) pay off, but it's not far short of what Leicester, Spurs, and Liverpool under Klopp have modelled themselves on with far less talented squads.

At a time when the rest of Europe is being ruled by a fast moving counter-attacking forward style of play incorporating midfields that can read the game and move off the ball to join attacks and mobile defenders with a real appetite to win the ball back at all costs - we've abandoned that style of play for some rigid, snooze-fest that looks like it was planned on paper 3 weeks beforehand. A transparently, telegraphed "philosophy" that sells our players, our fans and our history short. FFS, even FC Midgitland sussed us out!

If LvG is still here next season it can only mean that they are serious about Giggs succeeding him, and that folks, might just be worse!
 

JohnnyKills

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The stage was set for Fergusons good work to be undone the minute Moyes was hired to be manager of Manchester United, thats the truth. Deep down no matter how much we tried to delude ourselves i think most of us knew the good times were over. Ferguson himself picked him for reasons that still to this day make no sense to me.

Everything that has followed, the hiring of Van Gaal the ripping apart of the Fergusons title winning squad all stemmed from that decision. We hired LVG because he was the only big name available, who allowed a lot of good players with vast experience leave because of the season they had under Moyes.

Interest in football can wane thats only natural. I am not as fanatical now as i was 10-15 year ago. But lets be honest here in the grand scheme of things and compared to 99% of other teams we aren't even that bad.

Support the team, being a football supporter. A real one is about supporting a team through times are good and bad. Things are not always going to be to your ideal liking. The team won't always play good football and/or win things. You won't always like the man in charge etc etc.

But in my opinion if you enjoy the good times (and United fans have had more than most) then you should endure the bad. It's as simple as that for me.
All fair points there Stevo, can't argue with what you're saying and you've explained your view in a far more diplomatic and articulate way than most of the 'stick with it' brigade on here.

For me, we may be in a better position than 99% of the clubs out there in terms of league position, in terms of entertainment we're way, way down the list. If you go to your local club you won't get the same quality, but at least you'll see chances and players going for it. That's the most numbing aspect of this current United side for me - the entertainment just isn't there.
 

junglemusic

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What's worse, a plastic fan who is fed up of putting a lot of time and money in to an organisation that is relentlessly p*ssing it all up the side of a wall and refusing to change that stance, or a "real" fan who blindly hands over his time and money every week without question of where his money is going or why he even turns up.

That's like saying "yeah I pay the local meathead to burn all the cash in my wallet and kick me in the nuts every week. But because I'm loyal I'll carry on letting him do that because one day he might be nice and stop kicking me in the balls and instead take me out for dinner.
 

JohnnyKills

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What's worse, a plastic fan who is fed up of putting a lot of time and money in to an organisation that is relentlessly p*ssing it all up the side of a wall and refusing to change that stance, or a "real" fan who blindly hands over his time and money every week without question of where his money is going or why he even turns up.

That's like saying "yeah I pay the local meathead to burn all the cash in my wallet and kick me in the nuts every week. But because I'm loyal I'll carry on letting him do that because one day he might be nice and stop kicking me in the balls and instead take me out for dinner.
Brilliant post.

People aren't annoyed because we've stopped winning trophies. They're annoyed because the club has become a shambles and the fans' views are treated with contempt.
 

DomesticTadpole

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What's worse, a plastic fan who is fed up of putting a lot of time and money in to an organisation that is relentlessly p*ssing it all up the side of a wall and refusing to change that stance, or a "real" fan who blindly hands over his time and money every week without question of where his money is going or why he even turns up.

That's like saying "yeah I pay the local meathead to burn all the cash in my wallet and kick me in the nuts every week. But because I'm loyal I'll carry on letting him do that because one day he might be nice and stop kicking me in the balls and instead take me out for dinner.
You don't have to hand your money over, go to the pub and watch games, watch streams, but you can still be a fan. If someone needs live football go and watch your local side. I know loads who watch lower/non league sides yet still support a PL side as well.
 

Tincanalley

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Plastic fans? You're offending a lot of people who've devoted a lot of years to following United there pal.

Hope your blind faith and misguided definition of loyalty sustains you next season.
Hold on a second. As DT says, if fans are only with us through success then they are not worth the fretting. If that offends you, too bad. If the cap fits, etc...
 

RedDevil@84

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Brilliant post.

People aren't annoyed because we've stopped winning trophies. They're annoyed because the club has become a shambles and the fans' views are treated with contempt.
There is no real proof that club is beyond repair and is telling the fans to sod off.
Besides fans are fickle. They keep changing views at the drop of the hat. A player is God today, loser tomorrow, "who the heck agreed to give such a big salary" guy the day after. So the fan's views will need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
 

Danny_

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If he gets 4th place, he should stay. It takes time to build something.
 

Julian Denny

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If LvG is still here next season it can only mean that they are serious about Giggs succeeding him, and that folks, might just be worse!
I'm afraid you've hit the nail on the head there. It was always plan A and they are going to stick to it. All this talk of Mourinho was just a back up plan B in case the wheels really came off. What gets me is the sheer lack of ambition which now permeates the club. Fourth position and entry to the ECL qualifiers is considered a successful season. If that doesn't happen then the FAC will be fine! I mean that's the extent of it and the biggest reason why Mourinho should be installed whatever happens this season. We have to recapture the sort of ambition which is commensurate with a club of United's history and standing.
 

junglemusic

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If I want to watch attractive football, from a club with a proud history, great ethics, investment in youth and the local community and a never-say-die spirit - does that make me a glory hunter?

I don't think one person in this thread has suggested they're losing interest purely because we're not winning trophies. Quite the opposite; we could still lift the FA Cup this season and be turning away fans due to eroding away some of the characteristics I've mentioned in the line above ^

True glory hunters jumped ship to Chelsea years ago
 

Xaviesta

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What if we finish a point behind City in 5th: should we allow him to continue this great rebuild or pull the plug?
I know you're asking somebody else but United should pull the plug on van Gaal whatever happens.
 

Insanity

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I know you're asking somebody else but United should pull the plug on van Gaal whatever happens.
Absolutely; and you know that I share the same view. I was asking the other poster because what I inferred from his post was that finishing in the top 4 will mean that he is "building" something. So I was curious to find out what would he prefer if finish a point outside the top 4: will that suddenly mean that the rebuild is not going fine.
 

BennyBlanco

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Good answer; though I don't entirely agree. I think they have played some good stuff and some tumescent stuff, would not paint it all with same brush

Holy cow. I can't even think of a response to this. Sums up this place. Exclusively watching MoTD? I am reaching for the oxygen here...

Ah. Head snaps back in the opposite direction. Tennis, anyone?

I wonder if that bus has trundled past and will soon be parked in a street far, far away.
feck me, I must have dozed off for those 5 odd minutes this season, remind when that was again?
 

Chesterlestreet

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There are some odd and some rather extreme points of view expressed in this thread (and elsewhere on the Caf) regarding what constitutes being a fan. Some of it blatant topreddery, some of it almost the opposite (actual declarations of being what others class as “plastic”).

I have no interest in rating fans on a scale, so I'll just say this:

To me a proper fan is someone who has emotional ties to United. Doesn't matter where you live, how many matches you attend or how long you've been a fan – it's the emotional part which sets you apart from someone who simply seeks entertainment or the chance to bask in glory by proxy.

Now, if you are a proper fan in the sense above, I don't see what choice you actually have: You follow the club in one way or another regardless. You may do so with great joy and enthusiasm or almost reluctantly (because you're sick of the way we play, for instance), but as long as the emotional tie remains there – well, you're a fan. You may be a moaning fan, but you're still a fan. The last part is where I completely disagree with anything approaching topreddery.

As for the opposite extreme, declaring an intention to – well – quit being a United fan and becoming a fan of another team (one that presumably plays better football, or whatever the demand may be), I'm more in line with topreddery on that one: If you do that, you weren't much of a fan in the first place.

And on a more pragmatic note, it's more than possible to seek out entertainment elsewhere while still remaining a United fan at heart. Being a United fan doesn't mean you refuse to watch other teams on principle. That isn't being a football fan – it's being some sort of fanatic in the literal sense of the word, which isn't very healthy to begin with.
 

SqueakyWeasel

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I'm afraid you've hit the nail on the head there. It was always plan A and they are going to stick to it. All this talk of Mourinho was just a back up plan B in case the wheels really came off. What gets me is the sheer lack of ambition which now permeates the club. Fourth position and entry to the ECL qualifiers is considered a successful season. If that doesn't happen then the FAC will be fine! I mean that's the extent of it and the biggest reason why Mourinho should be installed whatever happens this season. We have to recapture the sort of ambition which is commensurate with a club of United's history and standing.
You are dead right! It is ambition, by which I mean building towards something.

For me personally it's the betrayal of the positive attacking style of play that hurts the most at a time, ironically, when most other teams seem to be adopting it.

On a side note, and not directed at you:

I can't understand everyone posting on this, and other threads, saying that people are "plastic" fans if they want LvG out :wenger:.

I want him out and I'm not happy at the moment, not because I'm a "glory-hunter", but because I dislike what he's done to my team.

Why must it follow that I'm "plastic" because I have a negative opinion about his ability to take us forward in the coming season, based on the two seasons he's been in charge?

I certainly don't demand, or expect, that we win every game as long as there is something positive on the horizon. I'll take losing games, not making top 4, certainly losing the FA cup, etc. as long as I see something positive to look forward to … some progress. Even a glimmer of something positive that can be built upon. I understand that will not happen overnight but surely we'd have seen the seeds starting to blossom by the end of this, his second season in total charge - but we seem to be in fact getting worse and going backwards (our GD was 21 two years ago under Moyes when we finished 7th ffs). And please don't tell me that LvG is that good it's all planned to fall into place on the last week of next season - he's too vain to implement a 3-year plan for anyone else to benefit from. He's taken us as far as he can (back to 1990) and another year is not going to do anyone any good.

I'm no glory hunter and I will definitely be standing loyally by my club whatever happens but don't ask me to be happy or to keep my mouth shut on here while the "powers that be" decided it's better to risk the hard earned history of this club and become the laughing stock of the Premier League than to be known as a "sacking club" whatever the feck one of those is!
 

Garethw

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If he stays then giving him a huge summer transfer kitty would be bonkers!

What happens if the next manager doesn't rate the players LVG buys this summer? It's just money down the drain.

Woodward needs to wake the feck up and end this nightmare.
 

Garethw

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I think the term "plastic fan" was more directed to the individuals that aren't emotionally connected with the club. Those that can switch allegiance at the drop of the hat.

What I see on here is deep routed frustration. Frustration that is 100% justified IMO.

This season has been brutal and anyone that has stuck with the club this far after the absolute shit fest that has been served up is a real fan.
 

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I just got back from the tattoo parlour. I have a tattoo on my arm that says "United Till I Die." I thought it prudent to clarify my position, so I just had "as long as I approve of the manager and we play sufficiently attacking football" added to it.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I just got back from the tattoo parlour. I have a tattoo on my arm that says "United Till I Die." I thought it prudent to clarify my position, so I just had "as long as I approve of the manager and we play sufficiently attacking football" added to it.
As long as you didn't get a Sanches one.:)
 

Minimalist

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Generally like most people I imagine, I will hope somehow (defying logic) that our play is better, more enjoyable and we can achieve better results.

If we start the season looking much the same then I'll do what I've been doing this season since Xmas. Barely watching and only when it's convenient. I'm not a 'shit fan' in my opinion - before that gets lumped at me - I'm just busy (in the middle of post grad work) and if it's not enjoyable then I can't continually spend time with United when it feels genuinely wasted.
 

SqueakyWeasel

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I just got back from the tattoo parlour. I have a tattoo on my arm that says "United Till I Die." I thought it prudent to clarify my position, so I just had "as long as I approve of the manager and we play sufficiently attacking football" added to it.
So, as a fan for life (with a tattoo to prove it :devil:), you honestly don't think you should be granted any opinion in the choice of your club's manger or his tenure, positive or negative? Pretty sure it's a wind-up but this thread's getting strange!
 

GiddyUp

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Do you think all Stoke fans just lack ambition? That if they were more ambitious they'd just support Manchesrer United?
Just an example of a middle of the league team, not involved in the business ends of the table. All supporters have ambition, it's just the ones that are happy to plod along with mediocrity because they think that's what real supporters do.
 

GiddyUp

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If he stays because of 4th place and an FA Cup win it will be a travesty and next year will be an even worse nightmare than this season has been IMHO. I never thought I'd struggle to be excited about watching Manchester United on match day.

For me, there really are NO plus points:

Has "LvG" achieved anything anyway?
Even if United get 4th I think it'll be in spite of LvG and his non-existent philosophy not because of him. He won't have won us 4th place or "tactically" beaten City to 4th – they screwed it up and we're merely limping over the line thanks to them, if indeed we do which remains to be seen. I personally think he knows he's off either way and doesn't care about CL next season, he only wants the FA cup for his CV – but that's for another thread.

Low scoring (boring) philosophy
Look at the top 4 GD (all 4 teams on around 30 points currently) … we're on fecking 13!!! Think about that for a second, in 36 matches we have only managed a balance of around one goal every 3 games more than our opposition (fallen from an average of 40-50 in the last 22 odd seasons of SAF reign and don't say that's not relevant either). Very seldom does GD lie looking at the final standings year-on-year, barring one or two anomalies it tends to be quite an accurate indication of final placement historically (especially in the top half of the table) and is also normally a nod towards the type of football played to get there. With a GD of 13 we have no real right to expect CL Football next season. And does anyone want to see us struggling against the likes of Eindhoven under him again anyway (especially after we just paid them a fortune for their star player)?

Why let LvG be involved in purchases for our future if we know he's off at the end of next year?
We know the sort of football that he wants to play. It's the one that 99.9% of the fans complain about week-in week-out! So why keep him on for another year and more importantly, as he's off at the end of next season anyway, why let him dictate purchases if he's betraying our playing DNA and we will be reverting to type once he's off? I don't understand why any more (sometimes ridiculous amounts of) money should be spent on taking "proven" quality footballers and allowing him to turn them into robots, complaining about them like some strict out-of-touch public school headmaster would his young charges, and then throwing everything out of the window and playing Fellaini in their place anyway? Not sure too many more agents will want their players coming to United while he's still here anyway, after seeing the stock of the likes of Scheiderlin, Memphis and Herrera et.al. fall so far.

Slow (boring) philosophy
We're all screaming out for Woody to buy some super-fast players to speed up our style of attack but what's the point if Louie will insist on the new ones playing such a slow sideways and backwards possession-stat-based build-up game (most importantly IMHO) with virtually no forward movement from players off the ball. He's imprinted his mind-numbing "possession at all costs" style of static football on our players and changed us from an historically renowned speedy, multi-facetted attacking team to the safe, boring, slow build-up play we see every week. I'm fed up of having to bear Sourness, Carragher, and co pointing out, often correctly (which makes it worse), the same deficiencies week after week and then hearing LvG bragging about the possession stats in post match pressers as if they are a badge of honour.


Shooting down the philosophy continued)
We used to have around 20 shots at goal per game, now we're lucky to have one per half. It's so obvious to me, more shots on goal equals more chances to score! It's no co-incidence that our reputation for winning penalties and getting OGs came during a stage when we spent as much time as possible with the ball in the opposition box, along with the speed with which we got it there and knocked it around. With this style of play, even speculative shots cause panic and mistakes amongst opposition defences. Yes they don't always (or even often) pay off, but it's not far short of what Leicester, Spurs, and Liverpool under Klopp have modelled themselves on with far less talented squads.

At a time when the rest of Europe is being ruled by a fast moving counter-attacking forward style of play incorporating midfields that can read the game and move off the ball to join attacks and mobile defenders with a real appetite to win the ball back at all costs - we've abandoned that style of play for some rigid, snooze-fest that looks like it was planned on paper 3 weeks beforehand. A transparently, telegraphed "philosophy" that sells our players, our fans and our history short. FFS, even FC Midgitland sussed us out!

If LvG is still here next season it can only mean that they are serious about Giggs succeeding him, and that folks, might just be worse!
Excellent post. And these are just the most obvious problems.