Fair!The results
Yeah because the forum is full of miserable cnutsI'll start. The cost. Going to games and watching on telly. I have no idea how normal/skint people can afford to take their kids to games every week.
The "what's good" thread took 8 hours to reach a second by the way.
It does work, or they would get relegated and long ball merchants would do well.Lack of long ball merchants like Bolton or Stoke. Every team tries the same style even if it doesn't fecking work for them.
He's abnormal though, he's not a trend.Aware I am running the risk of offending someone here, but the growing influence of Middle East money has altered the game forever negatively.
In terms of football, would agree with Fortitude in terms of creativity and what's "valuable" in player style these days. Just cause it's fresh in my mind, but the likes of Haaland being considered one of the best players in the world, after growing up watching the likes of Ronaldinho, R9 and Zidane.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think technical ability on average is much higher, though there are less of the very top technical players.Worse:
Free thinking - players are seen to be going rogue if they break from the system and the instructions briefed for their area of the pitch. In the even something goes wrong in their area of the pitch due to them trying to take the initiative, they will be summarily chided and you won't see that same 'mistake' again as they go back to playing on tracks as the remit demands.
Creativity - So much more of what you see now is rehearsed to an inch of its life. As impressive as those chains can be, the uniformity is predictable and not exciting unless executed at blinding speed and technical quality. Again, a player going rogue and thinking on the hop can disrupt the entire chain and then things can become disjointed until the system is dominant again. Technique isn't better, but sequencing is a magnitude of order superior.
Fitness - a con as well as a pro. Hard running drones are harder to beat than a bunch of highly skilled, lower fitness individuals. A lot of technical brilliance is being filtered out of the game in this manner where those who cannot keep up with the demands and repetition of the press are liabilities to the system . A player like Riquelme would be in deep doo doo coming through now.
Long range shooting and lower odds strike attempts - Risk aversion is so high that taking shots on from 30 yards out is now looked down upon. Obviously, an art form takes a tumble when few practice those things anymore.
#10's - all the greatest of all time have been #10's. It is supposed to be the genial position on a football pitch. These days there very, very through #10's active, and the few we do see are heavily marginalised. Riquelme; B Laudrup; Del Piero; Baggio and so on and so forth; what do they look like if they came through in this age? A #10 is more praised for his pressing from the front than he is for his mercurial offensive abilities now. Coaches will pick a hybrid of the two every time over a purer, better #10, I think.
How about: bottom level is higher and top level worse?I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think technical ability on average is much higher, though there are less of the very top technical players.
Yeah I do accept that, but I genuinely think Kane would score just as much in this City team.He's abnormal though, he's not a trend.
That's harder to say. I would say for the top teams, usually, every player has a good technical ability, better on average than previously, but fewer with the extreme level of technique. For example City has a lot of technique, but if you look at their lineups in the last X years, not many amazing players technically.How about: bottom level is higher and top level worse?
Without the #10 the pinnacle of the sport is lost; that one player even peers know is playing a different sport to most of them.
Very well put, I would agree fully agree with this. It's not that difficult to build a Bournemouth or Brighton that play very nice stuff, but beyond "the pack" there's a very limited set of truly top technical players to choose from, and unfortunately they seem to be all in top 3/4 clubs in Europe.How about: bottom level is higher and top level worse?
Without the #10 the pinnacle of the sport is lost; that one player even peers know is playing a different sport to most of them.
I agree with nearly everything, and I think you covered basically everything. I would say that slide tackling has died out because in general it's not a good way of defending aside from certain situations. I would also say football is a lot more like chess now, teams are far more structured and tactical.1. Over saturation. There are too many games. Too much coverage.
2. The demise of the slide tackle. We saw Mainoo get booked last week for a perfect, beautifully timed slide tackle. Symptomatic of the over enforcement of the game these days.
3. it’s a contact sport, but is almost played as if it isn’t at times. Shoulder to shoulder used to mean that. Now anything robust gets penalised.
4. The death of the #10.
5. The prevalence of relentless pressing. Football is chaotic now, whereas it used to be like chess.
6. The influence and role of personality, especially through social media. I don’t want to know anything about their social lives.
7. The rise of player “brands”.
8. The complete commercial over saturisation of the sport. It’s just about money, not about the game anymore.
9. State and oligarch ownership.
10. Multi-club ownership models.
11. Players getting far too much, too soon leading to the creation of infantilised adults.
12. Concentration of all the best players within a cabal of the biggest clubs.
13. This goes under commercialisation, but I’ll be specific in saying the ridiculous pre-season tours. Which means maximum financial return but piss poor preparation. Fans paying hundreds and hundreds to watch reserve squads goes through the motions.
14. The constant expansion of international tournaments.
15. The huge volume of friendly internationals under the guise of a “nations league”.
16. Not sure if this is a football thing or a societal thing, but the increasing propensity of you get generations to support a player not a club and to transfer their allegiances when the player moves. The cult of the superstar you could call it.
16. The dominance of data meaning that some of the low percentage, but most exciting, elements of football have all but been eliminated.
Kane was older and more expensive, Haaland works harder and is less injury prone. I agree with you but I can see why they picked him, though he wouldn't be my first choice.Yeah I do accept that, but I genuinely think Kane would score just as much in this City team.
There have been some other strikers down the years like van Nistlerooy, for example, who could be just as productive, but Haaland stands out in this set up and in an era where there's a lack of top strikers.
He could stay at City and break all the records, but I'll never view him as incredible like an Henry or Suarez, despite the numbers he puts up.
That's not new though is it?Opta/Statman Dave
xG
Erosion of flair
Obsession with speed/pace
United not being the best
It is far worse. If you list the top players 20-30 years ago and then of more recent times - I would say that there are profiles of players that have become extinct at the top of the game. You don’t get #9s who have no strength or pace but had great movement and finishing. You don’t see Baggio’s as such either. PL football is basically cyborg wars, with an almighty physical battle to win before you even get down to an actual football match. Teams like City are the exception that proves the rule if anything, I reckon.That's not new though is it?
It only applies to other clubs sadly. 30 y.o Ryan Giggs was still faster than Antony and Sancho. Pace is most important for wingers and the only genuinely fast winger we've had in the past 5 years is Dan James.It is far worse. If you list the top players 20-30 years ago and then of more recent times - I would say that there are profiles of players that have become extinct at the top of the game. You don’t get #9s who have no strength or pace but had great movement and finishing. You don’t see Baggio’s as such either. PL football is basically cyborg wars, with an almighty physical battle to win before you even get down to an actual football match. Teams like City are the exception that proves the rule if anything, I reckon.
Now it’s important for central midfielders, central defenders and centre forwards too. I can’t think of one position except goalkeeper where a player’s ‘lack of pace’ is not discussed come to think of it.It only applies to other clubs sadly. 30 y.o Ryan Giggs was still faster than Antony and Sancho. Pace is most important for wingers and the only genuinely fast winger we've had in the past 5 years is Dan James.
Of course. Then we wonder why our wingers are so shit when they're slower than most midfield/fullbacks in PL. Need to stop signing slow wingers, they need to be at least in the 95% percentile when it comes into pace.Now it’s important for central midfielders, central defenders and centre forwards too. I can’t think of one position except goalkeeper where a player’s ‘lack of pace’ is not discussed come to think of it.
Agree. Football used to come on TV teatime on Friday when the Saturday fixtures would be discussed (briefly). The games were on Saturday with the results announced before the news at 6pm. Sunday - read all about it in the papers. Then nothing much until Friday again!Worse
- Like many have said, we need a new flair king. Eg New Neymar, Ronaldhino, Zidane.
- Parity seems to be getting worse. One horse races even more so. Pundits talking about the same favourites every year for CL. Some strong rhetoric that moving to a team with superstars is more ambitious than moving to a team a superstar can try carry. "I think Real, City, or Bayern will win this year" Boring
- Too many games. Who has time to follow all that.
- Media including social media covering football 24/7. Letting everybody have an opinion. So many rubbish fan TVs, tiktoks, podcasts, documentaries talking about football endlessly. Gets boring after awhile since we're just recycling the same talk about the same players and teams.
Could have fooled me. We’ve been failing at it for 10 years despite spending a lot.Very well put, I would agree fully agree with this. It's not that difficult to build a Bournemouth or Brighton that play very nice stuff, but beyond "the pack" there's a very limited set of truly top technical players to choose from, and unfortunately they seem to be all in top 3/4 clubs in Europe.
The game has moved on from individuals taking risk because teams have learned "pressing".I’d say the lack of individuality is the big one. Everyone wants to play out from the back, have a system or a style of play, press high, and as a result players end up as cogs in a machine rather than players with an identity. The flair players of the 90s and 00s are few and far between because they take the sort of risks that aren’t conducive to a game played on percentages.
