What's the plan?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Ban, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. Dec 30, 2017
    #1

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23,508
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    I have been mad over City threads here (this is not a new one :D )but fair play to them they have a plan. Had a plan for a while and now they're reaping the rewards. They knew what they want and who they want to make it happen.

    Thinking about it does United have a plan? Long term plan?
    Obviously Jose is here to get us back on top, to win a title. Right now it isn't working and we'll see what happen next year.
    I don't think it will happen but if we completely fe.k up this season and don't even get CL or Jose decides to leave what next. Which manager? One who will be results first one or we will be patient with a lesser manager so to say (trophies wise) but who'll slowly somehow get us back. I mean right now we're near the top but don't look convincing and I'm not so sure about the future.
    This question, what next, goes for the fans here too.
    I've seen Ancelotti name being thrown out, that would be an absolute disaster and a definite sign we don't have a plan or direction.

    I admit, this is a mish mash of a thread already. Maybe it sounds kneejerk and I'm the last one to be a kneejerk but today was diabolical.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  2. Dec 30, 2017
    #2

    T00lsh3d Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,629
    The problem with Jose as the ‘long term plan’ is that Jose doesn’t do long term!
    He’s generally a 3 season manager and we’re already heading towards the breakup if the last few weeks are anything to go by. Honestly though, I don’t know the solution.
  3. Dec 30, 2017
    #3

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    83,395
    When Mourinho does eventually leave whether it be in a year or a decade, we'll bring in a director of football.
  4. Dec 30, 2017
    #4

    vangagal Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    Far away from home
    How can you be so sure of this?
  5. Dec 30, 2017
    #5

    MaxiPaxi likes to shove his mum's boiled eggs up his rectum

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    14,009

    feck, it'll definitely not be a decade. But I'm for bringing a DoF to have some continuity as it seems we're never going to have any manager staying longer than 3-5 years.
  6. Dec 30, 2017
    #6

    MaxiPaxi likes to shove his mum's boiled eggs up his rectum

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    14,009
    That is probably the most logical thing at this point.
  7. Dec 30, 2017
    #7

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Messages:
    37,393
    Location:
    France
    At some point the Glazer will have to go back to what they know about sport and the GM-Head coach model is the one they use with their other teams.
  8. Dec 30, 2017
    #8

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    83,395
    Just because we'd been linked heavily with one and reports said Mourinho didn't want one so we postponed it. The reports might have been bullshit but we've done enough of an overhaul behind the scenes over the past year or two with the academy and scout network that I'd be surprised if it hadn't even been mooted.
  9. Dec 30, 2017
    #9

    Devil may care Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    31,358
    I'd be happy enough to give time to a progressive manager with a modern attacking strategy that can at least compete for top 4 for a season or three while it knits together.
  10. Dec 30, 2017
    #10

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2000
    Messages:
    91,060
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Nicky Butt will become our director of football. Believe me.
  11. Dec 30, 2017
    #11

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23,508
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    3 seasons of battling it out for top 4? Isn't that too long?
    I mean maybe it isn't if it will go somewhere, if it look like it has a direction but..
  12. Dec 30, 2017
    #12

    Devil may care Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    31,358
    City are miles ahead and will only get stronger in the summer, meanwhile our current manager is openly talking about not expecting much improvement next season and that we can only buy 3 players etc....so time is going to be the mantra no matter who is managing us I think, and I'd rather give that time to a forward thinking, progressive manager than the current out of date style we are catering to.
  13. Dec 30, 2017
    #13

    AshRK Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,647
    Location:
    Canada
    I have a feeling Jose is our last panic appointment. He has been given the job for one sole reason, to steady the ship somewhat. We are in a mess and right now our best hope is to stick with jose.
  14. Dec 30, 2017
    #14

    MaxiPaxi likes to shove his mum's boiled eggs up his rectum

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    14,009
    Giggs. He did tell us to sign Jesus and Mbappe. :smirk:
  15. Dec 30, 2017
    #15

    vangagal Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    Far away from home
    Fair point. A GM-head coach is a usual model in american sports and it might worth a shot here. I'm in all for a DoF but if that come from Class of 92 ike Butt, our manager will be Giggs obviously, i dont know what will happen after that.
  16. Dec 30, 2017
    #16

    Empathy 2020 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Supports:
    Most
    I dont think sacking now Jose would make sense, however a succession plan ought to be put in motion for when his current contract ends.
  17. Dec 30, 2017
    #17

    Mciahel Goodman Worst Werewolf Player of All Times Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    29,095
    I say do a PSG and buy a frontline that wins you games regardless of your actual tactics.

    Basically, RvP 12/13. But more (and younger).
  18. Dec 30, 2017
    #18

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    83,395
    Director of football would be someone external. We had been linked with Monchi (Sevilla at the time) just before we hired Mourinho.
  19. Dec 30, 2017
    #19

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Messages:
    37,393
    Location:
    France
    You still need a manager that inspires them to join and actually trust them to win. I don't think Mourinho is that man, he attracts and requires an other type of player.
  20. Dec 30, 2017
    #20

    Mciahel Goodman Worst Werewolf Player of All Times Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    29,095
    Maybe, but I think if we had Neymar/Kane/Whoever we'd be winning these games.
  21. Dec 30, 2017
    #21

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Messages:
    37,393
    Location:
    France
    Of course we would be in a position to win most games but you need to land these players first and there are managers that will dissuade certain players. For example Mbappé and Neymar.
  22. Dec 30, 2017
    #22

    walkinhop Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    2,526
    Location:
    Cyprus Hill.
    I don't have a name but i do have a skill. We need a good motivator. Fergie was as miserable of a fella as anybody but he got a lot out of average players. Tactics aside, we need someone to take the boys and pump them up real good. We are a strange mixture of complecent and afraid.
  23. Dec 30, 2017
    #23

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23,508
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    Giggs?
    God no..
  24. Dec 30, 2017
    #24

    vangagal Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    Far away from home
    If the player is so special, i think Mourinho will make him just do what he do best. Cristiano and Hazard i think never got restricted under him. Neymar is that kind of talent but i dont think he will come to United too.
  25. Dec 30, 2017
    #25

    liamp Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,037
    Wonder if they'll go after someone like Paratici from Juventus. They already poached Ribalta from them...Either way I think they'll definitely need someone with a ton of experience.
  26. Dec 30, 2017
    #26

    Alabaster Codify7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2015
    Messages:
    3,539
    Location:
    Wales
    I think when Jose goes, we have two options:
    1) Hire another old-head short-term stopgap manager for 2-3 years and make little to no progress in reality
    2) Hire one of the flavour of the month younger managers and literally give them time - as in, prepare the fans for 2-3 years of no trophies, no glory, but entertaining football and clear, visible progress.

    The latter does not fit well with what the Glazers are like. It's a tricky one.
  27. Dec 30, 2017
    #27

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Messages:
    37,393
    Location:
    France
    But he inherited both, they didn't join him and they weren't unhappy to see the back of him.
  28. Dec 30, 2017
    #28

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23,508
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    I would definitely go with 2.
    I mean, when we get a new manager we'll again have to start all over again, not from scratch of course but there will be lots of changes nevertheless. Whoever the man is we must give him time. And go with a certain style of course.
    Going with nr. 1 would be an absolute disaster imo.
  29. Dec 30, 2017
    #29

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23,508
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    What about his stints at Inter and 1st stint at Chelsea. He always had game changers and those guys win games for you even if attacking tactics are not up to scratch.
  30. Dec 30, 2017
    #30

    vangagal Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    Far away from home
    He got friends in media already, he is a poster boy of Co92. If Butt become DoF, Giggs is the only name there is. We still have SBC and SAF as BOD, its not that hard to think they will appointed their beloved ex-player. Imagine media circus following that narrative, even after six years without league tittle every single one of pundit will say "give Giggsy time, its work in progress.."
  31. Dec 30, 2017
    #31

    Coops73 Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,488
    What’s the plan?

    Move on and win the next game.
  32. Dec 30, 2017
    #32

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23,508
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    No, just no. Even if Butt becomes DoF which I doubt. That doesn't mean Giggs will get the job nor he should.
  33. Dec 30, 2017
    #33

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    8,826
    Supports:
    Supports good football
    I actually feel like the DOF plan was in place with LVG, and that when they felt like Giggs was ready he would have taken that position and Giggs would have been the manager. Would it have worked who knows but honestly Looking at things now I feel ike that was the better direction than getting Jose.

    Let’s face it the board bottled it with Pep going to City and with fan unrest and Jose getting fired it was a perfect storm and they went for him 2-3 years too late. They went in one direction then did a total 180 on that and wasted the previous two years.

    I really like Poch and I really think he could work with the players we have there, but would he want to leave Spurs. I don’t think it’d be an easy sell and rumour is Real have their eye on him as well.
    I would think he would work with what we have as right now this lot look clueless with n iretion and they seem scared of Jose. And watching them you can see how poorly coached they are and that they are all playing within themselves bar maybe 2.

    However there was a news report about us appointing a Dof and him having no power over Jose which seems pointless but I guess he’d be put in place to plan for Jose’s exit install a plan and a direction and hire appropriately towards it. I also see Butt being named often and I’m just not sure about him. I’m sure he;d have a good knowledge of what the fans want and a vision more enthralling than what we see now. But there is more to it than just that and contacts and experience I feel are a must for the position and as much as it would be great for a class of 92 member I’m just not sure any have the experience to do it.
  34. Dec 30, 2017
    #34

    KirkDuyt Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Messages:
    10,306
    Location:
    Dutchland
    Supports:
    Feyenoord
    Jose is like the wolf from Pulp fiction. He comes in, gets shit done and leaves. Problem is he isnt getting shit done. I think the next manager should not be one that gives instant succes per se, but one with a clear vision of something he wants to build. I dont who it is, but hell, that’s what job interviews are for innit?

    The get a success trainer to fet back to the top in 1 or 2 seasons doesnt work. The rivals are to rich and strong for that now.
  35. Dec 30, 2017
    #35

    thebelfastboy Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    546
    Location:
    Belfast
    It's fine for the board to say we've got a plan as a club, unfortunately I don't see evidence of any proper planning whatsoever.

    It's been a mess on the football side since fergie departed (arguably even beforehand) and it looks like it's going to continue that way for the foreseeable.

    City had a plan and they went out and put all the pieces together to make it work. As much as it hurts to say, we are miles behind.

    This squad needs completely gutted, there's very few I would keep tbh. The club needs to trust in it's youth, it'll take time and patience but it couldn't be any worse than the dross being presented at the moment.
  36. Dec 30, 2017
    #36

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Messages:
    37,393
    Location:
    France
    That's not the subject. It was about bringing current top attacking players like PSG did, these players won't join Mourinho, they know what will happen on the biggest stage, he will plan to destroy the opposition game instead of focusing on his attacking players. And it's not a criticism of Mourinho, he is just not a good fit for these players and they aren't a good fit for him either.
  37. Dec 30, 2017
    #37

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23,508
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    Got it.
    Don't know, there's so much shit around the club right now and in it too and in the team it seems. Some of it is invented by the media but we don't look good.
    I know why we went for Jose, one of the biggest clubs goes for one of the biggest managerial names but I'm not sure about the direction we're headed too or if there is some direction. Sure enough, Jose might win us a title or 2 (not the league this season obviously :) ) but he won't stay long and we need to know what to do after that, not just paper over the cracks.
    We won't this kind of football, this kind of way of running clubs, buying wc players or trusting youth with few good additions every year, whatever.

    Even if it means we won't be on the top for a while we must make a base for something long term.
  38. Dec 30, 2017
    #38

    Camilo Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,845
    The club should get its shit together and sort a proper director of football model out, with one goal - attractive football. We still have a big standing in world football, but lets not pretend it's going to stay that way; we've been irrelevant for going on 5 years. The young kids of the this world, 8, 9, 10 years old, have no idea about us, we're just that club that plays boring football. It'll turn Liverpool before we know it. So lets actually admit this is a mess, stop chasing short term stop gaps of crap trophies, and start building for the next 5 years.

    Young manager once Jose's had enough? Suits me. It all starts with good football. That breeds confidence, that breeds success. Time to go a traditional football route.

    Hopefully Jose picks things up and has a strong end to the season - I wish nothing against him or the team obviously - but I think after Jose big changes will happen.
  39. Dec 30, 2017
    #39

    ManUArfa Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,199
    Location:
    ....and Solskjaer has won it!
    I also thought the plan was for Giggs to succeed LVG.
  40. Dec 30, 2017
    #40

    vangagal Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    Far away from home
    I'm just merely make a point if Butt becomes DoF which i doubt myself. Its not that hard to imagine that will be the case.
    Even with DoF in place, we need to clear average players we have in squad. The thing that makes me furious with Jose is he knows he cant work with some players but why dont he sell them? Even sell them by it means selling cheap it should be done. This club appointed Jose so he can clear the mess that already be done before. We all know he needs certain type of player to work with so why dont we just going all in buy him all the players? Its the only way to Jose, back him fully in transfer if not his mouth will starting to create wonders in media which he did last couple of weeks. Why bother to sign Jose in first place if he not got all players he wanted?