It doesn't look much on the surface, but the blueprint looks fantastic. Just need to get good materials to match the blueprint.
What's your mid-season assessment?
- Thread starter sullydnl
- Start date
Average - If you start with the 6th place team last season, lose several older players on free transfers, spend £200m+, then I'd expect a significant improvement, even without a new manager replacing the temporary appointment.
Positives
- the new signings generally work hard for the team and have mostly performed reasonably well
- Dalot, Varane, Shaw, McTominay, Fernandes, Rashford and Martial look like they can contribute under Ten Hag; which wasn't certain after last season.
- scoring after long passing moves involving almost the whole team is not something I've noticed under previous managers
- the performances against Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton and Chelsea were encouraging
- Garnacho looks exciting
Negatives
- the performances against Brentford, Man City and Villa were simply awful.
- I don't understand the need to start Maguire and Ronaldo. If they couldn't be sold in the summer, then restrict them to starting EL matches. Instead we have dropped points due in part, to them starting PL games.
- Ten Hag has made several surprising team selections: playing without a striker against Brighton for the first 60 mins, a crazy team selection against Brentford, no adjustment to protect the defence against City, starting Donny against Villa, expecting players to start both PL + EL matches during one week.
Unlucky
- Martial's injuries may have made a big difference to the way our attack has performed. The whole pre-season was based around Martial, Rashford and Sancho being our attack.
Positives
- the new signings generally work hard for the team and have mostly performed reasonably well
- Dalot, Varane, Shaw, McTominay, Fernandes, Rashford and Martial look like they can contribute under Ten Hag; which wasn't certain after last season.
- scoring after long passing moves involving almost the whole team is not something I've noticed under previous managers
- the performances against Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton and Chelsea were encouraging
- Garnacho looks exciting
Negatives
- the performances against Brentford, Man City and Villa were simply awful.
- I don't understand the need to start Maguire and Ronaldo. If they couldn't be sold in the summer, then restrict them to starting EL matches. Instead we have dropped points due in part, to them starting PL games.
- Ten Hag has made several surprising team selections: playing without a striker against Brighton for the first 60 mins, a crazy team selection against Brentford, no adjustment to protect the defence against City, starting Donny against Villa, expecting players to start both PL + EL matches during one week.
Unlucky
- Martial's injuries may have made a big difference to the way our attack has performed. The whole pre-season was based around Martial, Rashford and Sancho being our attack.
Dissapointing so far. We look like the worst of the top-6 but there have been glimmers of hope in some games. Good record against the top-6 which gives me hope things will improve fast as soon as he manages to get his system flowing and deal with the rest of the premier league sides. Expecting a strong 2nd half of the season.
1) What were your expectations for the season before the season started and why?
To see a clear style of football being implemented and improved throughout the season. On this so far I think we have been really successful. Don't want to make this about Ronaldo but him being in the team has slowed progress as he doesn't suit the style, but generally I think there are loads of positives from our play and more than any other manager we have had post fergie, you can see what we are trying to do and it looks good.
2) What are your expectations for the season now and why?
To continue to see progress. The squad lacks serious depth in some really key areas, like striker, and we have 2 games a week. I think this may be unpopular but i would like to see us abandon the domestic cups and go all in on the league as if we go deep in everything I think our league form will tail off massively due to our schedule.
Top 4 would be ideal but as long as we continue to improve the way we play and are close, that gives us a good base for next season.
To see a clear style of football being implemented and improved throughout the season. On this so far I think we have been really successful. Don't want to make this about Ronaldo but him being in the team has slowed progress as he doesn't suit the style, but generally I think there are loads of positives from our play and more than any other manager we have had post fergie, you can see what we are trying to do and it looks good.
2) What are your expectations for the season now and why?
To continue to see progress. The squad lacks serious depth in some really key areas, like striker, and we have 2 games a week. I think this may be unpopular but i would like to see us abandon the domestic cups and go all in on the league as if we go deep in everything I think our league form will tail off massively due to our schedule.
Top 4 would be ideal but as long as we continue to improve the way we play and are close, that gives us a good base for next season.
Not bad seeing as where we came from last season. Hopefully the crap can be sifted out of the club and we go on to be better, I think we now have enough winners and leaders in the side, another top striker and I honestly think it's only upwards.
Happy with how the rebuild is going. Would be delighted if we can get top 4. If we had a good striker playing we’d be in the top 4 and not have to play Barca in the Europa League.
It's going ok. I am disappointed to have lost four games already. However, we have been improving. I am optimistic about the rest of the season. I like how we play under Ten Hag and I believe in him to do good things, if backed by solid recruitment.
Can’t win. If we are doing well, it means other teams are doing poor. The City result was a freak. Did they beat us 6-1 at OT under Fergie ?
I'd say it's been decent. The fixture list hasn't been the nicest as well. We've had very good defensive performances against Liverpool and Arsenal. A very controlled first half performance against Chelsea, and an excellent 90 minute performances against Spurs.
The main improvement I wanted to see was defensively. We were conceding way too many goals. We've conceded 20 goals in 14 games. 10 of those goals came in 2 games (City and Brentford). 10 goals conceded in the other 12 games is a big improvement. We've also done a better job of reducing the number of chances on our goal. De Gea's had a few games this season where he's barely had to do anything.
Our main issue has been scoring goals. 20 goals in 14 games isn't enough. Apart from Chelsea, every other team in the top 10 has scored more. Not having Martial for a lot of the season has hurt our chance creation, but even without him, we have been creating enough chances in most games. Rashford, Ronaldo, and Bruno's finishing hasn't been clinical enough. The rest of the team need to chip in with more, too.
All of ETH's signings have been good so far. Martinez, Casemiro, and Eriksen are key players to the team. I haven't been as impressed with Antony as I have with those 3, but he's chipped in with some goals himself and performed pretty well. From the players that were here prior to ETH, we've seen improved performances from De Gea, Dalot, Shaw, Varane, McTominay, Bruno, Rashford, and Martial (from the little he's played). Garnacho has given us some amazing cameos.
My expectations prior to this season were a 4th place finish. My expectations have stayed the same, but I have more faith that we can achieve it now. Our squad is still thin. A couple injuries and we are going to have major issues. We need another couple transfer windows to get a serious squad together.
ETH is going to have to rotate a lot more. Dalot and Bruno have played too many minutes. He's also going to end up overplaying Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, and Rashford.
The main improvement I wanted to see was defensively. We were conceding way too many goals. We've conceded 20 goals in 14 games. 10 of those goals came in 2 games (City and Brentford). 10 goals conceded in the other 12 games is a big improvement. We've also done a better job of reducing the number of chances on our goal. De Gea's had a few games this season where he's barely had to do anything.
Our main issue has been scoring goals. 20 goals in 14 games isn't enough. Apart from Chelsea, every other team in the top 10 has scored more. Not having Martial for a lot of the season has hurt our chance creation, but even without him, we have been creating enough chances in most games. Rashford, Ronaldo, and Bruno's finishing hasn't been clinical enough. The rest of the team need to chip in with more, too.
All of ETH's signings have been good so far. Martinez, Casemiro, and Eriksen are key players to the team. I haven't been as impressed with Antony as I have with those 3, but he's chipped in with some goals himself and performed pretty well. From the players that were here prior to ETH, we've seen improved performances from De Gea, Dalot, Shaw, Varane, McTominay, Bruno, Rashford, and Martial (from the little he's played). Garnacho has given us some amazing cameos.
My expectations prior to this season were a 4th place finish. My expectations have stayed the same, but I have more faith that we can achieve it now. Our squad is still thin. A couple injuries and we are going to have major issues. We need another couple transfer windows to get a serious squad together.
ETH is going to have to rotate a lot more. Dalot and Bruno have played too many minutes. He's also going to end up overplaying Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, and Rashford.
Plus we’re nearer to just a third of the way through the season than half, thanks to cancelled fixtures etc Which makes the imbalance in the fixture list a bit more of a feature.
I just don’t get this sort of negativity. The worst of the top six, despite sitting in 5th place. After the hardest fixture list of the other 5 teams in the top six. And a record of W3D1L1 against those teams.
I do mention we have a good record against the top-6 but so did Ole in his first years. We have scored the least goals (bar Chelsea who are worse off at this point) and conceded the most (bar Tottenham). The games we are winning I don't feel like we are cruising to victories.
We're playing poorly and winning games, a sign of a solid mentality. We're playing well and losing/drawing games, a sign of better things to come.
Even during those games when we're below par, we're creating enough chances. The goals we scored were all of very high quality.
The only concern is there were these 4 games where we were just not competitive, City, Aston Villa, Brentford and Brighton. We could've played for another 3 hours and would still lose as we lacked any urgency or plan.
Even during those games when we're below par, we're creating enough chances. The goals we scored were all of very high quality.
The only concern is there were these 4 games where we were just not competitive, City, Aston Villa, Brentford and Brighton. We could've played for another 3 hours and would still lose as we lacked any urgency or plan.
How are we the worst side in the top 6 (or even top 7 if we include Newcastle) when we deservedly beat 3 of those sides (hammered Tottenham), drew twice but controlled and should've won both games, and then lost deservedly to City? We are 3 points off top 4 with a game in hand, despite having a much harder fixture run than those around us. So if we win our game in hand.. we are level on points with top 4... Having beaten and outplayed our competitors... With a harder fixture run. That would point to us being arguably the best of the rest after the top 2, no? Especially considering the start of the season which was clearly a different situation. Since the opening 2 games of the season, we have as many points as City with only Arsenal having more. Our main striker has been injured all season too.
Terrible start but to turn it around and only drop 10 points from our next 12 games is very encouraging, especially considering we played Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle in that run.
Preseason prediction was that we'd finish 5th, have a decent crack at the Europa League (but probably fall short somewhere) and, for the first time in a few years, play some football that is actually decent to watch. I still think that looks about right.
I wish we were better on the ball (EtH's Ajax routinely dominated the ball, but our possession stats are currently lower than they were in Mourinho/Ole/Rangnick's time). That being said, the squad is still a long way short of where it needs to be and EtH has done a pretty good job thus far with what he has.
I wish we were better on the ball (EtH's Ajax routinely dominated the ball, but our possession stats are currently lower than they were in Mourinho/Ole/Rangnick's time). That being said, the squad is still a long way short of where it needs to be and EtH has done a pretty good job thus far with what he has.
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Pretty good, considering.
Points-wise, positively surprised. We had a very tough schedule, fixture congestion and a striker situation. What with Martial being injured, Greenwood being struck off and Ronaldo being Ronaldo. We're 5th with a game in hand, that could push us level 4th and just 1 point off 3rd. We're ahead of where I though we would be. I didn't expect us to be above Chelsea and Liverpool and practically level with Tottenham.
Football-wise, probably about how I expected. I see the intention from the manager to player more front-foot, pressing football and I like it. We've been hampered by the striker situation in that front, so the results are mixed. We dominate more games than we used to. The midfield is improved, but not quite there yet. We play well against the big teams. The mentality and determination seems much improved. On the flipside there's no consistency yet, we flounder in some games and also we are quite goal shy. But these things take time and like I said, we did... do have a striker situation.
Give the manager another year with the team (plus a good striker, another CM and more depth at RCB/RB) and I expect good things to happen.
Points-wise, positively surprised. We had a very tough schedule, fixture congestion and a striker situation. What with Martial being injured, Greenwood being struck off and Ronaldo being Ronaldo. We're 5th with a game in hand, that could push us level 4th and just 1 point off 3rd. We're ahead of where I though we would be. I didn't expect us to be above Chelsea and Liverpool and practically level with Tottenham.
Football-wise, probably about how I expected. I see the intention from the manager to player more front-foot, pressing football and I like it. We've been hampered by the striker situation in that front, so the results are mixed. We dominate more games than we used to. The midfield is improved, but not quite there yet. We play well against the big teams. The mentality and determination seems much improved. On the flipside there's no consistency yet, we flounder in some games and also we are quite goal shy. But these things take time and like I said, we did... do have a striker situation.
Give the manager another year with the team (plus a good striker, another CM and more depth at RCB/RB) and I expect good things to happen.
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I will second this as largely my view also.
Pros:
Solid at the back. Casemiro and Martinez has solidified the defence - and he’s gotten Shaw, Dalot playing well and DDG do things we’ve not seen before. Very impressive record when Varane was fit (obviously outside the city game)
Great signings that’s improved the first team, outside of Malacia, who will improve and get better.
Better attacking play. Despite the lack of goals, the play at times has been much better. When Martial plays we look like a much better team, and when he doesn’t play, we create great chances but just lacking the finish.
Cons:
Squad rotation/depth is poor. The players look drained in the last few matches, which I put it down to being overplayed.
Not killing off teams when we’re dominating has led to the poor goal difference.
In game subs and tactic changes are largely poor, but that can be due to the squad depth and injuries. Too often we’re doing good in one half and awful in the other.
Overall I’m really happy with the season so far. We’ve done well against most of the big teams; just need to improve against the smaller ones
Solid at the back. Casemiro and Martinez has solidified the defence - and he’s gotten Shaw, Dalot playing well and DDG do things we’ve not seen before. Very impressive record when Varane was fit (obviously outside the city game)
Great signings that’s improved the first team, outside of Malacia, who will improve and get better.
Better attacking play. Despite the lack of goals, the play at times has been much better. When Martial plays we look like a much better team, and when he doesn’t play, we create great chances but just lacking the finish.
Cons:
Squad rotation/depth is poor. The players look drained in the last few matches, which I put it down to being overplayed.
Not killing off teams when we’re dominating has led to the poor goal difference.
In game subs and tactic changes are largely poor, but that can be due to the squad depth and injuries. Too often we’re doing good in one half and awful in the other.
Overall I’m really happy with the season so far. We’ve done well against most of the big teams; just need to improve against the smaller ones
Much better than expected. We've played some football that I was expecting to see by next season. Especially the match against Spurs. With Ronaldo on his way out the second half will be even better I reckon.
1) What were your expectations for the season before the season started and why?
Before the start of the season, and based on our signings heading into the Brighton game: expected to be battling for fourth, probably missing out depending on how the other five did - I had us finishing on ~70 points.
After the Casemiro and Antony signings, I bumped that up to 75 points.
2) What are your expectations for the season now and why?
I like where we're headed - for the first time in a while, there's a sense that the team's developing a style of football that will eventually lead to trophies. We're nowhere near the finished product but there have been promising flashes even in the relatively crap performances, and a lot of the goals we've scored (Garnacho's the other day, Sancho against Liverpool, Antony against Arsenal, Fernandes against Southampton) have come as a result of some magnificent build-up play that I'm not used to seeing from United. Considering how shite Ronaldo's been and how many games Martial has missed, I think there's a lot more to come.
Still think 75 points is a realistic target. Arsenal are doing much better than I expected but Liverpool and Chelsea are much worse, so in terms of league position I probably have us down as 4th now, up from 5th in August.
Before the start of the season, and based on our signings heading into the Brighton game: expected to be battling for fourth, probably missing out depending on how the other five did - I had us finishing on ~70 points.
After the Casemiro and Antony signings, I bumped that up to 75 points.
2) What are your expectations for the season now and why?
I like where we're headed - for the first time in a while, there's a sense that the team's developing a style of football that will eventually lead to trophies. We're nowhere near the finished product but there have been promising flashes even in the relatively crap performances, and a lot of the goals we've scored (Garnacho's the other day, Sancho against Liverpool, Antony against Arsenal, Fernandes against Southampton) have come as a result of some magnificent build-up play that I'm not used to seeing from United. Considering how shite Ronaldo's been and how many games Martial has missed, I think there's a lot more to come.
Still think 75 points is a realistic target. Arsenal are doing much better than I expected but Liverpool and Chelsea are much worse, so in terms of league position I probably have us down as 4th now, up from 5th in August.
I think we'll definitely finish top 4, hopefully 3rd. Yes we look knackered and a bit thin on the ground but Spurs look even moreso, and Chelsea are just plain shite at the minute. I'd like to think we're better than Newcastle too although I'm very impressed with what Howe is getting out of the likes of Almiron over there.
It feels better, that's all that matters to me right now.
I look forward to United playing.
I look forward to United playing.
It obviously hasn't been perfect and there have been some big bumps in the road but considering how low everything surrounding the club last season was I think he's done very well to turn things around. Just the fact that the players look like they care and want to be here is such a huge turnaround.
I think if we get a striker in January we have a real chance at making top 4 which would be a pretty good achievement all things considered.
I think if we get a striker in January we have a real chance at making top 4 which would be a pretty good achievement all things considered.
Is it true at the same point last season we had one more point than we do currently?
If so then that's slightly worrying considering how last season turned out although I'm sure we have had a much tougher schedule this season
If so then that's slightly worrying considering how last season turned out although I'm sure we have had a much tougher schedule this season
No, we had 21 points after 14 games last season.
Nope, 5 points fewer. We have 26 points from 14 games now - 21 last season.
This is our third-best points tally after 14 league games since Fergie's retirement, bettered by Mourinho in 2017/18 and Ole in 2020/21 - edit: actually fourth, Van Gaal in 2015/16 had 28 points too
Manager; 4/5
Ten Hag is great manager. Nearly everything what he does fills me with confidence. Bought right players, perfect in public (great balance between optimism and reality) and on right path in implementing his style. Only things with which i was not too happy is his ingame management (subs) and Ronaldo/Maguire decision (decision to keep them despite it was obvious that they can't play in his system).
Incomings (performances): 4/5
Casemiro, Eriksen and Lisandro are key players already. Antony didn't justify price tag but he had decent season and will be better and better without any doubt.
I have doubts about Malacia though. He was little bit meh but he is backup so i am not too worried about that.
Points: 3.5/5
Brighton and Brentford losses are on Murtough and slow transfer business. City is City (at this moment). But i think that vs Chelsea and especially Newcastle and Villa, we should have got all 9 points (instead 2 points). Villa game was disaster performance from all people involved, from manager to players.
Overall, future is very bright. I expect top 4 and one trophy at least
Ten Hag is great manager. Nearly everything what he does fills me with confidence. Bought right players, perfect in public (great balance between optimism and reality) and on right path in implementing his style. Only things with which i was not too happy is his ingame management (subs) and Ronaldo/Maguire decision (decision to keep them despite it was obvious that they can't play in his system).
Incomings (performances): 4/5
Casemiro, Eriksen and Lisandro are key players already. Antony didn't justify price tag but he had decent season and will be better and better without any doubt.
I have doubts about Malacia though. He was little bit meh but he is backup so i am not too worried about that.
Points: 3.5/5
Brighton and Brentford losses are on Murtough and slow transfer business. City is City (at this moment). But i think that vs Chelsea and especially Newcastle and Villa, we should have got all 9 points (instead 2 points). Villa game was disaster performance from all people involved, from manager to players.
Overall, future is very bright. I expect top 4 and one trophy at least
Great post
Thanks. It's nice to be positive for once on here, but it really feels like Ten Hag knows what he's doing, which we haven't since Van Gaal, and I think that failed for reasons other than the manager being sharp enough. Crazy that Mourinho lost it so quickly, I would have guessed he'd still be Conte good in his 50s.
Ok you have stressed good points there. We needed to spend that 240million and more to improve this team. I think he has done that in first phase as we all know it will take 3 windows to get up there challenging for honours.
If we finish in top 4 it will be a good season. Bring in a top CF and cover for a few more places in the January and Summer windows and we will be up there next season challenging.
Arsenal and Newcastle were in a better place than us at the start of season, and we needed to get rid of a few bad apples. There is a much better relationship with players now and this is down to Ten Hag and his coaches. I am quite happy the way things are going so far.
Can see clear progress. ETH is building something exciting.
If we had in form striker(s) then table position would be very very different.
If we had in form striker(s) then table position would be very very different.
3.6 roentgen, not great, not terrible.
Where I expected us to be with all the shenanigans of Ronaldo. If we had a performing striker we would have done better of course. I am still disappointed by the lack of possession and I am not sure if Bruno is the kind of player to do that.
I don't see us making top four as things stand. We lack a killer instinct, we lack a top-class natural goal scorer. I said getting Halaand would be critical, both for the goals he would have scored for us and stopping City (as it turned out) getting as many as they do.
We've had some very good performances but when we've been poor, we've been truly awful: Brentford and Villa being the two most obvious examples. If we can start to pick up points when not playing at our best, we might achieve something but those thinking we will beat Barca don't seem to have noticed who is top of La Liga
We've had some very good performances but when we've been poor, we've been truly awful: Brentford and Villa being the two most obvious examples. If we can start to pick up points when not playing at our best, we might achieve something but those thinking we will beat Barca don't seem to have noticed who is top of La Liga
If ETH could have sold Ronaldo and got a decent striker, I'm also very confident that we'd be in a better position. However, he's doing a great job so far
1) What were your expectations for the season before the season started and why?
- I wanted to see a total change in the way we play, in every aspect, such as style of play and work rate, it was evident last season we didn't have a defined way of playing and the whole team were lazy cnuts.
- I also wanted to see a complete change of the culture and dynamics within the club, zero tolerance to bad performances and laziness, only high standards are accepted everyday and everyone is accountable for it.
- I also wanted some upgrades in the squad especially in the midfield area, I realize it's not feasible to upgrade the entire squad but some reinforcements were desperately needed.
I didn't care about whether we should get top 4 or compete for trophies, my main concerns were to see significant changes in the things i mentioned above, because I believe that we must first build the foundations, only then we can be competitive at the highest level.
2) What are your expectations for the season now and why?
Still the same, so far it looks like we are moving in the right direction despite the ups and downs, and I'm confident we will get there by end of the season, for now I'm really pleased to see that a lot of the problems that plagued us last season are not there anymore.
fifty fifty
We’re doing better than I expected. However must be said that my expectations have been very low these last few years! There’s lots going on that I like. He’s handled difficult situations like Ronaldo very well, looks to have recruited excellently and generally has the team looking much more organised and resilient. If I have any complaints it’s doing stuff like putting two keepers on the bench which does my head in. I’d rather put a promising academy player there just to experience the match day even if he doesn’t intend to play them.