Where did it all go wrong for Mario Gotze?

Mettaur

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How does he play nowadays? Average?
He kind of does his own thing on the pitch and wasn't great at pressing. In the first half of the season (18/19), Gotze was played as a forward and scored just 1 goal in 15 games. Even in the second half of the season, he just scored 5 goals.
 

Ødegaard

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How does he play nowadays? Average?
Do note that I haven't watched him myself, I'm merely looking at stats:
Seems to have played mostly as a striker (9/11 times). 3 goals and no assists. Going to leave on a free. Dortmund signing Håland makes it so he would have to compete for other places where they are already quite stacked: Reus, Sancho, Hazard & Brandt.
 

harms

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SilentWitness

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I've lost all perspective on players ages now I'm deep into my 20s. Can't believe he's still 27. He needs to leave 'top' clubs and go to a mid tier German side I reckon to excel again. A move to another team of a similar ilk would be a disaster.
 

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Didnt think he was amazing when I saw Dortmund, but I was surprised he was so young. Yet to be impressed other than the fact he was young...
 

SambaBoy

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Not the player he once was, and he won't return to that level now. He will keep playing in the Bundesliga for mid-table clubs or Woodward will be stupid enough to give him a contract.
 

izec

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Done at the top level, unless a big miracle happens. Never felt he was the same player after leaving for Bayern. Illness, injuries, pressure, not playing much...take your pick
 

tentan

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Klopp will rediscover his talent at Liverpool
 

Zehner

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Same thing that happens to most players that leave Klopp, people then realise that the player actually aint all that. The list is long.
Götze was all that and more. Same level of talent as Hazard and Neymar. Greatest talent I've seen in the Bundesliga so far. Could've become an incredible player.
 

B20

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Would have been him and Brandt signed over Mane and Salah if Klopp had had unilateral say on transfers.
 

Zehner

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He was always overrated and I said this when this place was in serious hype mode over him. Said the same about Sahin and Kagawa. They benefitted from the system Dortmund played and that team was better than the sum of its parts.

You didn't really watch him play during those days, have you?
 

adexkola

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He was always overrated and I said this when this place was in serious hype mode over him. Said the same about Sahin and Kagawa. They benefitted from the system Dortmund played and that team was better than the sum of its parts.
Maybe one day at United we'll learn this black magical fecking art of creating systems that elevate so called mediocre players.
 

Pexbo

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He was always overrated and I said this when this place was in serious hype mode over him. Said the same about Sahin and Kagawa. They benefitted from the system Dortmund played and that team was better than the sum of its parts.
Bit of a daft comment really. He was an excellent young talent and as has been well reported came down with a muscular disorder which severely impacted his energy levels and caused him to gain weight. Regardless of the Dortmund effect on other players, his illness is clearly the real reason his career stagnated. It impacts the careers of people who have office jobs and struggle to focus or motivate themselves to do simple admin work or so I can't imagine how difficult it would have been trying to train with world class footballers each day.
 

Henrik Larsson

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You'd think that suffering from myopathy kind of ruined everything for him since you know, having properly functioning muscles is important for a footballer and all that. But no apparently it's not being under the influence of Jürgen the Magician that has caused his decline..

Germans on here are massively overrating Götzes talent by the way. I watched this kid a lot in his early years at Dortmund, I've also seen a young Ronaldo at PSV, a young Van Persie at Feyenoord and countless of other players displaying talents that I've never ever seen with Götze at that age.

Shite, Neymar's dribbles at Santos were something Götze only could dream off and Neymar clearly was a much more talented player to me. Götze really wasn't that talented, yet all the Germans somehow acted like they had the next Messi coming through.
 

do.ob

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He's still a good passer and probably still one of the best around when it comes to handling the ball in packed spaces, but his dribbling stats are absolutely abyssmal this season. Probably because his acceleration went down the drain, which also limits his defensive impact, despite him usually covering a lot of ground during matches.
If he had decent athelticism he could probably be a pretty great CM, but since that's not the case he needs a fairly specific tactical context to look good. He's still a very useful player to have and Dortmund were very open to extending his contract (just not for the supposed €10m p.a.), he's been quite effective as a false 9 last season (7 goals, 7 assists in 1675 minutes), but he needs the game to be closed, his team to be camping in the opposition half, with him moving around, dragging defenders, shielding the ball and making himself available for quick 1 touch combinations.

Inter has been rumoured to be interested in him for months now. Hertha apparently, too. But he's always been such a high profile figure in German football (irrespective of his performances) that I have a hard time picturing him playing for a bland midtable side. Not to mention that most of those sides heavily rely on Klopp-like pressing, which he isn't up to anymore.
 
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pocco

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Bit of a daft comment really. He was an excellent young talent and as has been well reported came down with a muscular disorder which severely impacted his energy levels and caused him to gain weight. Regardless of the Dortmund effect on other players, his illness is clearly the real reason his career stagnated. It impacts the careers of people who have office jobs and struggle to focus or motivate themselves to do simple admin work or so I can't imagine how difficult it would have been trying to train with world class footballers each day.
I'm talking pre Bayern. Has he always had the disorder or is it not something more recent?
 

do.ob

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I'm talking pre Bayern. Has he always had the disorder or is it not something more recent?
It was diagnosed shortly after he returned to Dortmund, how long and to what extend he'd been affected before that is not known afaik.



I don't really think comparisons to either Ronaldo or Neymar (not to mention that those are all-time greats themselves ffs) apply, as he neither was/is a striker or a winger. The more he played the more he gravitated to the center and at the time the player I would've used as a blueprint for him would have been Iniesta.
 
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Jibbs

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One of those players who lost pace and then lost everything. Couldn't rediscover himself.
 

Zehner

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I did indeed. Used to love watching Dortmund. I was initially on the hype train but when I actually sat and watched him I didn't feel the hype was entirely warranted. Just my opinion, you're not going to change it.
Then I wonder how you can compare him to Sahin and/or Kagawa. At one point in time when he was still at Dortmund, Götze averaged the most successful dribbles per game across all European leagues. He was even ahead of Messi for a considerable period of time back then. It's of course a question of preference, but I can't get my head around people claiming he was never that talented to begin with. It was a really close call between him, Neymar, Hazard and maybe Isco back then.

It's quite obvious he didn't fail because of a lack of talent or professionalism but health conditions.


One of those players who lost pace and then lost everything. Couldn't rediscover himself.
Götze never had much pace to begin with. His game was always about technique and intelligence. But he lost basically every physicality he had due to his illness and only in the last two seasons regained a little bit of it.


It was diagnosed shortly after he returned to Dortmund, how long and to what extend he'd been affected before that is not known afaik.



I don't really think comparisons to either Ronaldo or Neymar (not to mention that those are all-time greats themselves ffs) apply, as he neither was/is a striker or a winger. The more he played the more he gravitated to the center and at the time the player I would've used as a blueprint for him would have been Iniesta.
The Iniesta comparison fits very well. However, Götze had much more output than Iniesta and was a much bigger goal threat. During his last Dortmund year and in his first Bayern seasons, his finishing was superb. He had a goal or assist every 101 minutes in 13/14 and every 107 minutes in 2012/13. Hard to compare him to Iniesta in that role, although they had similar skill sets.
 

André Dominguez

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Career personal achievements wise, things might had gone wrong.
In terms of money earned, totally the opposite.
 

VorZakone

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He was absolutely incredible at Dortmund until his transfer to Bayern.
 

giorno

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We are talking about a player who scored a World Cup winning goal?

Also won five league titles?
 

André Dominguez

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We are talking about a player who scored a World Cup winning goal?

Also won five league titles?
I understand were this topic comes from. He was considered to be Ballon D'Or material after that WC. The expectations were so big that the odds of a career drop are usually always larger than meeting the expectations, like happens with so many football players.

Doesn't mean most of them didn't made good career, if you bare in mind the money they earned while playing it.
 

do.ob

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We are talking about a player who scored a World Cup winning goal?

Also won five league titles?
He was supposed to be a generational talent for Germany, instead he turned into a squad player (and less) for club and country after leaving Dortmund. It's true that in absolute terms he already had a great career, but relative to his potential it's a big disappointment.
 

giorno

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He was supposed to be a generational talent for Germany, instead he turned into a squad player (and less) for club and country after leaving Dortmund. It's true that in absolute terms he already had a great career, but relative to his potential it's a big disappointment.
Sure, just pointing out he didn't get only money out of his career. 99% of players would happily trade careers with him
 

Blackwidow

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He was absolutely incredible at Dortmund until his transfer to Bayern.
As a player that age: yes. But a lot was full of hype. He came out the academy very ready and landed into a team that was playing with a lot of patterns and workrate that swam on a wave. He was a great assistant in that years - nothing that he showed in the more individualistic national team or at Bayern. He had good times at Bayern, too, but more as goalscorer.

He never was as good as his hype - and is far better than people make him today.
 

Borussin

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Where did it go wrong?
He made the wrong career choice at a young age. He should have stayed with Dortmund and Jürgen Klopp for longer. But got his head turned by Bayern, who's new coach didn't even want him (he'd wanted Neymar).

Then he got stuck in a rut there after his first season there (where he did well).

Then he struggled badly with fitness for a long time, and no one knew why.

Then we found out it was because of an illness.

Last season he showed a bit of the Götze of the past.

Now he has a big decision to make in his career, of which he has plenty of time left. A fantastic mercurial talent at a young age, and a lesson as to how it can turn badly with a couple wrong decisions, but also bad luck (if you can call it that), with a disorder he had no control over for a long time.

His salary is the stumbling block. He earns 190k a week. Even at Dortmund, he was played everywhere and wasn't first choice in any of them.
He doesn't earn 190k a week.
 

UweBein

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Done at the top level, unless a big miracle happens. Never felt he was the same player after leaving for Bayern. Illness, injuries, pressure, not playing much...take your pick
Nah, it's rather he was (or is) an arrogant, self-entitled prick who bought into the hype about himself. He was overrated, always. At some point he did have the potential to become a really good player, but he did not pick the right direction.
 

poleglass red

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Ordinarily he's had a very good career. Possibly overhyped too young and didn't live up to such lofty expectations. His success at Dortmund was his best at club level, his success at Bayern although not a given is par for the course at that club. Very young to be moving down the league as he is, but he's had illnesses that have probably taken more from him than we know.
 

thepolice123

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I understand were this topic comes from. He was considered to be Ballon D'Or material after that WC. The expectations were so big that the odds of a career drop are usually always larger than meeting the expectations, like happens with so many football players.

Doesn't mean most of them didn't made good career, if you bare in mind the money they earned while playing it.
No he wasn't. He had a mixed first season at Bayern and barely featured in the WC as Low didn't really prefer him. Even in the Final he came on as an 88th minute sub after Low's hand was forced.

Both Gotze and James' career went the opposite way after the WC. Till today they are struggling to find their best position in the game.
 

Cnaiür urs Skiötha

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Always a bit overrated as Germany‘s poster boy. That goal in the WC final did not help either to take off some pressure.

I think he should have left Germany long ago. No idea why this never was in the cards.

While he surely is no answer to our problems we are so dry when it comes to creativity that I would not mind him here on smaller wages.
 

Maluco

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This thread actually entered my head when I was playing football the other night. It was seven a side and I was put in a poor team. There were a few players who battled and battled, knowing they would lose, but it was just their nature to keep fighting and running. I went into goal for the last 20 minutes because I couldn’t be bothered!

Motivation is a funny thing in football. I live in Brazil and their game is full of players who are done by 27/28 because they have achieved everything, in terms of trophies and finances, often after such difficult childhoods. They want to enjoy i

Drinkwater won the league and got his big move and his career was over. Does he have the fight to get it back? Can the right manager inspire him? He will never win another PL and has money to burn. It’s not straightforward.

Gotze has the money, has already had the biggest moment possible in football, and has an illness to deal with on top of that?

This is why Ferguson and Klopp are like gold dust, they can inspire in spite of all the temptations that go with the modern game.

I think his next contract will tell you a lot about what he has decided to do.
 

MagooDad

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I think a lot came down to how well organized the Dortmund side was and how special Götzes (and Kagawas) role was in that team.

The most important player for that midfield was Sebastien Kehl. Anytime Bender replaced him the gegenpressing was not even close to the level.

That midfield made Großkreutz, Kuba, Sahin and Kagawa look like world class players, but as soon as they left Dortmund they were not even close to that level. Großkreutz being the funniest going from WC winner to 4 tier football. Gundogan is the one who has lived up to the hype after leaving that midfield.

The sum of all parts together with Lewandowski, Hummels and Kehl being true world class players made the res look good.

Götze was an incredible talent and his sickness is one part of the puzzle. But the other I think is that he just plays in a position that is not in need anymore. Both Kagawa and Mhikitharian who followed on that role has gone the same way after being successful in Dortmund.
 

do.ob

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I think a lot came down to how well organized the Dortmund side was and how special Götzes (and Kagawas) role was in that team.

The most important player for that midfield was Sebastien Kehl. Anytime Bender replaced him the gegenpressing was not even close to the level.

That midfield made Großkreutz, Kuba, Sahin and Kagawa look like world class players, but as soon as they left Dortmund they were not even close to that level. Großkreutz being the funniest going from WC winner to 4 tier football. Gundogan is the one who has lived up to the hype after leaving that midfield.

The sum of all parts together with Lewandowski, Hummels and Kehl being true world class players made the res look good.

Götze was an incredible talent and his sickness is one part of the puzzle. But the other I think is that he just plays in a position that is not in need anymore. Both Kagawa and Mhikitharian who followed on that role has gone the same way after being successful in Dortmund.
In the early years of his Dortmund tenure, Klopp was just light years ahead of anyone else tactically, teams just weren't equipped to deal with (or apply it themselves) "Gegenpressing" at all. For Sahin especially this was the biggest factor behind his looking so good. Later on teams exploited his lack of mobility, by applying rigorous pressing themselves and denying him the time to pick out his passes, but back then he both had time on the ball and the opposition was giving the team miles of space to pass into. Having an injury file the size of a phone book probably didn't do him any favours either.

I also think your assessment of Kehl is wrong, he basically missed their entire first title winning season due to injury and during their CL final run he was often benched.
Großkreutz and Kuba also saw their fall from grace before leaving Dortmund/Klopp. Kuba's demise came after he ruptured his ACL and missed a whole year through injury and over time Großkreutz had to rely more and more on competitors getting injured and reinventing himself as a RB.