Fun fact: he was Everton
Where does Ancelotti rank among all time great managers?
- Thread starter sullydnl
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What about the Madrid board deciding to get him back from Everton when everyone thought he was done at the top level? He already failed at Madrid once but what a call from the board.
I want Mourinho back at Utd.
I want Mourinho back at Utd.
I can't believe someone is suggesting he's underperformed (and massively to boot) in the CL. Like he's the one manager that hasn't if we're judging it by the highest of high standards.
No La Liga isn't a successful stint at Real for any manager.
He won them La Decima when they've been craving it for years.
The idea that it wasn't successful is nonsense.
It was strange he took the Everton job in the first place.
He's right up there. What I love is there's a bit of old-school mystique about him, he's not constantly flashing his tactical credentials etc.
Van Der Sar at Fulham vibes.
Not that strange to decide to lead Everton: When he was young Everton was quite a solid club, wining the UEFA Cup in 1985 and nicking the title two or three times in that decade, if my memory serves me right.
In his perception, Everton is probably a bigger club than younger generations see them now.
In his perception, Everton is probably a bigger club than younger generations see them now.
He is a strange one for me, he is definitely not a tactician or anything, he is a good man manager who commands respect from all the players and probably delegates everything football related. When he actually had to come up with tactics, he struggled(his Everton stint), this Madrid team coaches themselves and Madrid seem to wised up in transfers as well, signing gem after gem for cheap. I can't see him replicating this anywhere else, just for that I don't rate him as much as Guardiola, Klopp or even Mourinho for that matter.
Ancelotti is clearly above Mourinho all time, Mou has zero arguments over him.
That's such a poor take, really. He's an incredible tactician and always has been. From Pirlo to Bellingham & Vini Jr., he constantly creates new tactical roles for his players and he's incredibly adaptable, which is what makes him so successful in cup competitions. He's not a systemic manager like Guardiola or, to a lesser extent, Klopp, but their systems are just one of the possible approaches to football tactics.
Him and Sir Alex are in a league of their own
Yeah, Ancelotti has used all the main styles and trends I can think about. An other thing that is quite surprising is how fast he can implement a different approach, if one thing doesn't work he moves quickly to something else. I would love to know how he does it, I don't think that I have ever heard any player explain his method precisely.
It's fair to say that they did underperform in the league. You can't say he failed when he won a CL.
You can't manage at the top level for over two decades and not be a great tactician.
So many people think Carlo and Fergie are just some dudes that hype players up with words and are somehow super successful, it’s crazy and disrespectful to two all time greats.
You don’t achieve what they achieved with no tactical ability, what on earth?!
Like...the whole club?
Two of the best managers I've seen at adapting. It's not easy to manage at the top level for multiple decades. Football is forever changing and both Ancelotti and Fergie are masters at keeping up or staying ahead of the curve. It's why I laugh when I see people trying to say that Fergie wouldn't be as good in the current era.
Behind SAF, Cruyff, Guardiola and probably a few others
Who was our manager when Everton got him. We really missed a trick not getting him at United.
We made Ole a permanent manager.
That would be us alright.
Southgate is very successful with England for almost a decade now but he is no great tactician either. I know Southgate hasn't won anything yet, but despite being a shite tactician he is the best England manager in recent times.
Couldn't adapt at Everton could he?
The point is he has managed to create roles for players who are among the best in football at the moment. I'm pretty sure that list of players would have created wonders with or without Ancelotti. The point I'm trying to make is he seems to succeed when he has world class players like that Milan side or the Real Madrid side, the rest all seems to be middling at best.
Would have definitely ended in tears if we got him.
arrived mid season in a relegation battle, they finished 12th. 10th the next season and then he left, got DCL into career best form that he’s never replicated, has their highest PPG of Prem managers. Weird how his 18 months at Everton is used as some kind of gotcha
International football is not the same level. Not even close. And remind me who Southgate has actually beat with England at major tournaments?
Why do you rate Pep as a tactician in that case? His squads were even more stacked than Ancelotti’s.
And that’s simply factually wrong — unless it was the amazing squad of Reggiana that carried Ancelotti to Serie A promotion?
New manager bounce, spent loads of money on big names for Everton’s level. Left them high and dry knowing he can’t turn it around.
Never said Pep is a master tactician, he and Klopp are one trick ponies but they came up with those tricks or made it perfect. Ancelotti is a much better version of Harry Redknapp IMO or like later days SAF. Nothing wrong with that but I don’t rate him enough to do what he does at Real Madrid anywhere else.
I can bet on my house that if we get Ancelotti we’d end up firing him in a year. He has it good at Real Madrid right now as their recruitment has been spot on the last few years. Anywhere else where real coaching is needed Ancelotti would come up short.
I dread to ask you who are those great tacticians if neither one of Ancelotti, Pep & Klopp qualify. Kieran McKenna? Phil Parkinson?
Why does anyone have to be a "great tactician"? I rate managers on team building, longevity, playing style. Guardiola, Klopp have their unique playing style which they incorporate everywhere they go. SAF did that during his time with us and gradually towards the end became like Ancelotti. But Ancelotti doesn't seem to have any priors of building a team up, his player credentials got him good jobs where his teams are stacked with talent, he seems to be an excellent man manager but has specific playing style or anything. Ancelotti seems to need someone else to build the team for him all the time.
If you rate managers on their tactical ability, someone has to be at the top of the list? You've said that Ancelotti "isn't a tactician", so you clearly do assess managers by that parameter, I just wonder, who is a tactician by your definition... are there any tacticians in the modern game? If not, were there ever any (Michels, Sacchi...)? If not, maybe the assessment scale is the issue — Usain Bolt isn't that fast when you compare him to supersonic aircrafts after all.
By now Carlo Ancelotti has done enough to be celebrated as the greatest Italian manager of all time. Which is no mean feat when you consider the awe-inspiring quality of the competition: Giovanni Trapattoni, Marcello Lippi, Nereo Rocco, Arrigo Sacchi, Fabio Capello, Vittorio Pozzo, Osvaldo Bagnoli, Ottavio Bianchi.
Including everyone, he's probably Top 3 with Alex Ferguson and Pep Guardiola. Although I do have trouble putting him conclusively ahead of Ernst Happel, who won the European Cup with Feyenoord and Hamburg, and reached another European Cup final Club Brugge, aside from guiding the Netherlands to the 1978 World Cup final. Played a major role in the fine-tuning of total football and implementation of modern 4—3—3 structures as well. Maybe the Top 3 should really be a Top 4?
The argument about Ancelotti being a great man-manager but nothing special in terms of the nuts and bolts of footballing theory doesn't quite resonate. He's a masterful and rigorous tactician with top-notch in-game decision making and a profound understanding of the game, has a gift for making complicated things look simple, and chameleon-like with a keen sense for maximizing available resources and putting difference-makers in difference-making positions (where they find it easier to arrive at game-defining solutions). The notion that you have to be unyielding and dogmatic, with some sort of rigidly defined algorithmic approach to football that you don't quite deviate from, to be considered a tactical savant, seems rather odd and restrictive.
This bit from an article on Happel could be applied to Ancelotti in a roundabout away, actually; there's a reason why they were both so successful with multiple teams...
Including everyone, he's probably Top 3 with Alex Ferguson and Pep Guardiola. Although I do have trouble putting him conclusively ahead of Ernst Happel, who won the European Cup with Feyenoord and Hamburg, and reached another European Cup final Club Brugge, aside from guiding the Netherlands to the 1978 World Cup final. Played a major role in the fine-tuning of total football and implementation of modern 4—3—3 structures as well. Maybe the Top 3 should really be a Top 4?
The argument about Ancelotti being a great man-manager but nothing special in terms of the nuts and bolts of footballing theory doesn't quite resonate. He's a masterful and rigorous tactician with top-notch in-game decision making and a profound understanding of the game, has a gift for making complicated things look simple, and chameleon-like with a keen sense for maximizing available resources and putting difference-makers in difference-making positions (where they find it easier to arrive at game-defining solutions). The notion that you have to be unyielding and dogmatic, with some sort of rigidly defined algorithmic approach to football that you don't quite deviate from, to be considered a tactical savant, seems rather odd and restrictive.
This bit from an article on Happel could be applied to Ancelotti in a roundabout away, actually; there's a reason why they were both so successful with multiple teams...
50 Years ago: Ernst Happel invents Total Football.
He didn't spend loads of money. He signed Allan for £25m and James Rodriguez on a free. Everton had tried signing Doucure in previously before he got there and Godfrey was a youth prospect signed by Brands.
He had Everton 2nd at the end of Decemver and in the top 4 at the end of March, but ultimately the squad was thin and injuries took their toll. Had he been backed in January he might have made it.
He didn't leave because he couldn't turn it around. He left to become Real Madrid manager.
For me, one of the very best man managers in history. Same level with Sir Alex and I don't take it lightly when saying that.
His tactical game is not shabby either, he can adapt to playing different styles. Sure he doesn't coach a structure to the exact detail like Pep or Klopp, but he doesn't need to. He just keeps winning.
His tactical game is not shabby either, he can adapt to playing different styles. Sure he doesn't coach a structure to the exact detail like Pep or Klopp, but he doesn't need to. He just keeps winning.
You can also say by his very nature, he is someone who thrives in the arena of poking holes and finding exploits within opposing rigid structures, which actually gets under the skin of system coaches because their solution often lags behind his dynamism.
If the ultimate question is: system(s) over dynamism, with stacked [equal] squads, Ancelotti often provides the counter stance for the great system managers to come up against. When all things are equal, and it comes purely down to the wits of the coaches, he is not left wanting or lacking. He doesn't need a definitive system to be a top notch tactician. He's one of the best problem solvers the game has seen. Evidently.