You DO support City and that's fine. It's not a big deal. I think United 08 is now being hugely under estimated. Ronaldo 08 was two tiers above anything City have to offer. I believe if these two squads face off 10 times. 08 United will win 8 out of 10. Tottenham and Liverpool won through once in a life time miracles. It could have easily been Ajax -Barcelona. I do not believe 19 PL is stronger than 99. Not even 08. Man City and Liverpool might be as strong as 08 United was. But Tottenham/Chelsea/Arsenal/Everton of today is a whole tier below Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool/Everton of 2008. This City side let Tottenham score some pretty funny goals against them. I can't imagine what Torres/Drogba of 08 would have done to this defense. Much less the trio of Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney
Where would you rank this Man City side now?
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I don’t even believe they are worth rating corrupt to the core, and playing football manager in cheat mode. Like PSG everything they accomplish has a massive asterisk next to it.
Agreed, winning the CL provides a certain stature, internationally, that cannot be achieved solely through winning a domestic league. However, I see the CL as the cherry on top, rather than the be all and end all for a great team, because of the distinction between league and cup football. You have to be the best team in the country to win your domestic league, but you don't have to be the best team in Europe or even the best team in your country to win the CL. But to win both in the same season is the mark of a truly great team, because it requires you to demonstrate 9 months of consistent brilliance to win the league and repeated one-off brilliance to win successive knock-out cup ties (which is why it has been done on such few occasions).
I think everyone on this thread agrees that the achievements of United's 1999 and 2008 era teams are superior to City's 2018 or 2019 teams. I have certainly said exactly that in my posts on this thread, so I don't see that you're taking a particularly contrarian view. Clearly United's CL wins in those seasons, together with the successive PL wins, puts those United teams on another level. Achievement (via trophies) is fact. There seems to be some debate on whether in a one-off game this City team would beat those United teams, but that's just opinion/speculation.
Finally, it's worth pointing out that the CL, which you obviously greatly value, has a distortive impact on the competitiveness of domestic leagues, and reduces the ability of the "lower tier" teams to avoid getting "farmed" by the elite teams. I think that's worth considering when you disparage those clubs, as you did.
I DO NOT support City. I support Liverpool. I am trying to stay as objective as possible on this forum with every response I give.
I think there's a lot of United supporters on this forum claiming to be City supporters etc btw. Don't make it too obvious.
Let me summarize my reason again. My reason for City beating them is based on them getting 98 and 100 points in consecutive leagues in a tough EPL. The reason Guardiola didn't do as expected in the CL was because he rested players for the EPL. He placed more emphasis on retaining the EPL as he himself said so.
Yeah, I'm not going to get intimidated into not giving my opinion. You don't like what I said, fair enough, but I have the right to voice my opinion.
That's nice but I personally don't think so. I think they would have outclassed United similar to what Pep's Barcelona did, twice.
Who is even talking about 2015? That was 4 years ago. I'm talking about the current season.
Literally all european finalists were from England. If that doesn't say how strong the EPL is right now, I don't know what else will convince you. You're sounding like the guys from RAWK tbh.
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I wasn’t trying to intimidate you, football is a game of opinions. Just genuinely curious why a Liverpool fan is in a United forum, can’t make out if you’re a troll or not.
Anyway, let’s move on because clearly none of us are going to change each other’s opinions on this.
As a Liverpool fan do you think your current team is better than your 2008/09 team? Personally think it’s very close, having Klopp as manager makes me lean towards your current side, but player for player I wouldn’t say it’s better.
Barcelona didn’t outclass United in 2009 by the way, that was a very even game. But even mentioning this City side in the same breath as that Barcelona side is an insult to that Barca team.
You should read posts properly to gain the context of what is being said. My point is that the standard of the league has been declining for the last few years. All the stats back this up. It therefore stands to reason that you would have to rate the great Utd sides above this City side as the league was a much better standard at the time of our domination.Who is even talking about 2015? That was 4 years ago. I'm talking about the current season.
Literally all european finalists were from England. If that doesn't say how strong the EPL is right now, I don't know what else will convince you. You're sounding like the guys from RAWK tbh.
We have 4 finalists in Europe due to the decline of other teams in Spain, Germany & Italy. No English team has won the CL for 7 years. If the PL was so strong surely an English team would have won it before now.
As others have said, in the league, probably the best ever squad- and performance-wise. In the CL, nothing talk-worthy , and definitely underwhelming and disappointing considering the squad strength and depth.
You know it's really strange when you see a bunch of people defend fans of rivals clubs for being able to post here only in certain threads and then no one says anything about your comment.
Individually, I think the 2008/2009 team is better. They had better individual talents and more world class players. I think collectively this team is better and play a specific style that is harder to beat. This team is also mentally stronger and more motivated.
It's a really interesting point you brought up though. I mean, if you compare the two, why is this Liverpool side doing much better? is just really just mentality? and if you compare City's squad to let's say Arsenal's invincible squad, I seriously feel the Arsenal side has better individual quality. To make my point clearer, how many TRULY world class players do you think are in the City team?
I think maybe this is the age where style and philosophy reigns. Managers can formulate a style that they think is unbeatable and can pick and choose the right players that fit that style and beat teams with better individual quality and the same old philosophy. It's basically a game between styles now. I don't think it was so in Benitez/Mourinho time or not that much in SAF/Wenger days. But I'm just putting it out there. Just a suggestion.
I disagree with you about the Barcelona comment. I think United were outplayed. You can mention two things in one sentence and they don't have to be equal. I'm not sure if you understand that.
The Barcelona playing style is very similar to City's playing style under Guardiola (although there's still some work to be done), which goes back to my points in a couple paragraphs before. United back then wouldn't be able to come to terms with a team playing like that. In all honesty, I don't think many teams back then would even be able to come to terms with playing this season's Liverpool. Football has progressed exponentially from back then to now in all departments such as mentality, psychology, training, fitness levels, team spirit etc. It's a different ballgame now. I think EPL fans should really appreciate what Pep, Klopp, Pochettino and maybe Sarri soon is bringing to the league.
Exactly what I've been saying. People trying to compare teams directly are lost. I mean a worse man city team beat our best ever team under SAF (IMO) in 07/08 twice! This city team would take apart our team. That playing style using agressive pressing and positional switches, we couldn't deal with it. Even when we won the cl in 08, we could barely contain a bara that had an atrocious season.
Football atm is a different level, I keep saying it. The intensity is much higher, fitness is better and players are much better tactically. The EPl is a much better league football wise. Back then Burnle would not have been seen as unique as they are now. Even we were playing hoof ball compared to now, with goalkeepers barely playing out from the back. Everything was counter attack after counter attack with no control.
It's no conicidence that England have started doing better once the best coaches came into the league.
City are by far the best footballing unit I have ever seen in the EPL. in terms of greatness, I think our 08 side is still the greatest.
Where do you rank our team?
There are teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid, City, Liverpool, PSG and Juventus who are above us at the moment. Do you consider another team better than us (like Ajax, Atletico, Napoli, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Dortmund, etc) or we are in the top 10?
There are teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid, City, Liverpool, PSG and Juventus who are above us at the moment. Do you consider another team better than us (like Ajax, Atletico, Napoli, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Dortmund, etc) or we are in the top 10?
Cheaters. Thats how I rank them.
Hard to take them seriously considering it’s taken over a billion pounds since the takeover to get this “success”.
I’d be saying the same about Portsmouth if they’d been bought by an oil baron.
And I don’t mind saying it, I’ll have more respect for Spurs achievement (not spurs themselves, the achievement!)
if they win the UCL.
I’d be saying the same about Portsmouth if they’d been bought by an oil baron.
And I don’t mind saying it, I’ll have more respect for Spurs achievement (not spurs themselves, the achievement!)
if they win the UCL.Domestically it would be hard not to see them as the best that there has ever been. They broke the record points total last season in the league and won it with absolute ease. This season they could be the only male side to win a domestic treble.
Pep is trying to replicate the Barca style at City. The problem is that he doesn't have Messi. This is why he failed with Bayern in Europe & now City. This City side is nowhere near that Barca side. It is stupid to say that as Pep's Barca beat 1 of the best Utd sides his City side would also do the same.
I hate to break it to you but this Liverpool team is nowhere near this current City side. This is 1 of those occasions where the table does lie. If you strip out the inexplicable luck you've had this season you are around 13 pts off City at seasons end.
The PL has not progressed massively in the last decade. The mentality & team spirit of many teams is actually worse. Due to the amount of money in the PL many teams are more concerned with survival than progression.
In terms of what they have achieved in the league the last two seasons, phenomenal.
Personally football wise dont think they are any better than Mourinhos Chelsea or our last Champions League winning side, think both sides are just as good and personally they are not football wise at a level of The Arsenal Invincibles or our treble winnin side, certainly not the year after we won the treble, still the best football played for me was that year by us.
They are a great side and a very strong squad, no doubt about that, but calling the best after two seasons is very much premature in my opinion
Personally football wise dont think they are any better than Mourinhos Chelsea or our last Champions League winning side, think both sides are just as good and personally they are not football wise at a level of The Arsenal Invincibles or our treble winnin side, certainly not the year after we won the treble, still the best football played for me was that year by us.
They are a great side and a very strong squad, no doubt about that, but calling the best after two seasons is very much premature in my opinion
One of the best things about the forum is the number of fans from different clubs posting on here.
All of Peps teams play very attractve, highly successsful, winning football but they have only one way of playing.
Early Wenger's Arsenal could pass the ball into the net or play it fast and direct, winning the ball around their box and then scoring a several seconds later. They also had their share of hardmen and could battle to win tough games. The best Utd and Chelsea teams could also play good football (not quite as pretty as Arsenal's) be more direct and they too could tough it and win ugly when needed. City are very pleasing on the eye, but they do lack some things other teams had.
Early Wenger's Arsenal could pass the ball into the net or play it fast and direct, winning the ball around their box and then scoring a several seconds later. They also had their share of hardmen and could battle to win tough games. The best Utd and Chelsea teams could also play good football (not quite as pretty as Arsenal's) be more direct and they too could tough it and win ugly when needed. City are very pleasing on the eye, but they do lack some things other teams had.
Best squad ever in PL history. First XI vulnerable in a one-off match.
As in current Man Utd team? If yes than all the teams u listed are better football teams than ours...
Pep isn't replicating, he has transferred HIS style across different leagues. Go and watch barca now and tell me they play this mythical 'barca' style.
In regards to Pep's City vs our united 08 team, the city team did the double on us in the league in 2008 so...except you want to tell me that this City team is not as good as that team...I don't kow what to tell you. This City team would plaster all the past epl teams. Greatness wise, our 08 team is the greatest in the EPl imo.
The Pl has progressed from hoof ball to actually having sides that want to play football. All they did back then was counter punch and counter punch and then keep things tight. Now teams go out there today to actually entertain the fans. The football is 10x better barring some of the lower sides
They've lost only twice to top 6 competition this season (Chelsea and Tottenham away)
City actually underspent, the quality they have in players should've costed a lot more, they’ve made some fantastic purchases.
Ffs
Ffs
Domestic quadruple says it all really, best ever team to be assembled in England
Thank feck Spurs stopped them in the C.L.
I mean ofcourse he is worse off because he doesn't have Messi but you said the problem is. I don't think there's any problem really because he literally broke the points record in the league and got 98 points the following season and won the domestic treble.
He doesn't do that well in Europe because he overthinks especially in away games and this season he rested players at Spurs in the CL to win the league over Liverpool.
Liverpool shouldn't even be close to City this season. Their will to win and refs and goalkeepers mistakes made it look like it was close.
I agree. This isn't going to go down well in this forum but this is the best ever team in England. It's just ridiculous what they are doing.
When we look at this city team the records, the goals, the playing style you have to say they are ranked #2. United 99 team is #1 but they are the second best team we have ever seen play football in england.
You're not the best until you win the big one. And they still fall short.
This is what I've been saying too. The Barca playing style was replicated in this City's side and they are ruthless. United back then couldn't cope with it and won't have done now especially with how far football has progressed.
I remember looking at games Liverpool played in the mid 2000s (when they won the CL) and Liverpool now and it's crazy how much better they are now. Every pass can easily be controlled by this Liverpool team and they make decisions in split seconds. The runs they make are almost perfect. This Liverpool's running off the ball is crazy. The amount of sprints Robertson and Arnold does...I think if you showed this to those players back 10-15 years ago they wouldn't even think it's possible to do this every game in a season. It just feels so static and one dimensional when you watch games even a decade ago.
Neil Warnock was saying that when he watched City this season from the dugout that he had never seen anything like that in his life from a football team. It was totally new to thim.
Liverpool back then are close to a team in the 70s to 80s than this team. I don't really see people talking about this (maybe because no one really cares to watch a game from 2004 or 2005)
Also you were talking about the tactical side of things. They expanded the analytical department at these clubs. Klopp even hired someone that specifically trains throw ins.
I think what really changed it too is that the top managers brought world class people in each department and gave them more power than they had in their previous clubs. Klopp sought the best of the best when he brought in Bayern's nutritionist and fitness trainers. He took the people that made the fitness of the treble winning Bayern so great. Guardiola brought in the best of the best from his Barcelona days and the rest is following the same plan in the EPL.
They're scary good and in terms of one off PL winning seasons they're already quite arguably the best.
As a side generally (as in taking account multiple years and not limited to a particular competition) I think they're a CL win and/or another PL win from confirming their position at the top of the tree. After all, we did three in a row twice didn't we? If they do that while being this dominant then fine, they're the best. If not, they've fallen short.
The only bright side is that their brilliant years coincide with Liverpool being the best they've been in decades too, which at least means they don't win.
As a side generally (as in taking account multiple years and not limited to a particular competition) I think they're a CL win and/or another PL win from confirming their position at the top of the tree. After all, we did three in a row twice didn't we? If they do that while being this dominant then fine, they're the best. If not, they've fallen short.
The only bright side is that their brilliant years coincide with Liverpool being the best they've been in decades too, which at least means they don't win.
I refuse to believe they'd beat the 2008 or 1999 team when both sides are playing at their best.
City beat us twice in 07/08...
This team would wipe the floor with EPL teams of that era.
Rating City as the best team in history while waiting on positive results of financial doping, is like saying Lance Armstrong is the best cyclist before he was caught..
And average United conpared with 2008 beat City last year.
Even this year's match was even until 2nd half.
I rate them in the same way I rate a turd. Make of that what you will.
And yet the Champions League Final is two PL sides neither of which are City and Europa League is two PL sides.
Manchester United haven't spent much less than City.. but City have spent better money-wise with a better attitude
They are talking on the radio about how Pep has brought a new level of professionalism into the English game. You don't hear these type of things about Ole! like bringing something new to the table, like training methods etc
They are talking on the radio about how Pep has brought a new level of professionalism into the English game. You don't hear these type of things about Ole!
like bringing something new to the table, like training methods etcAgain, they beat us TWICE in 07/08 and they outplayed us in one of the games.
The football city play that 08 team won't know how to deal with it. Barca dominated us even when they were shite in 08. The level they play at now is the highest ive ever seen in the EPl but that 08 team will always be greater.
Over a season I back this city team to beat that 07/08 team, in a one off game or knock out tie I'd back us as we had CRonaldo who did miracles that season.
Best league side possibly. As for the cups, it take a bit of luck to win them.
We were lucky in the Camp Neu in 99.
They've been lucky this year, in every fecking draw. They got knocked out by the first decent team they faced in Tottenham.
Would they have got through our 99 FA cup run, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal?
Maybe, but we'll never know.
We were lucky in the Camp Neu in 99.
They've been lucky this year, in every fecking draw. They got knocked out by the first decent team they faced in Tottenham.
Would they have got through our 99 FA cup run, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal?
Maybe, but we'll never know.
Faux treble. Faux club.