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How many assists did Djorkaeff get in 98, i remember watching the France games and his timing of passes stood out.
How many assists did Djorkaeff get in 98, i remember watching the France games and his timing of passes stood out.
Shame about the controversy and uncertainty on whether he earned all his goals or was allowed, shall we say, a percentage of them.Maradona in '86 stands in a league of his own. Nothing else comes close
Kempes in '78, Bruno Conti in '82, Zidane and Pirlo on 2006, Xavi and Iniesta in 2010, Robben in 2014, Baggio and Romario in '94, Cruyff in '74, Garrincha in '62, Ronaldo '98 and '02, Rivaldo '02 and Pelé in '70 the other standout WC performers
Platini in '84, Zidane in '00, Gullit in '88 and Xavi in '08 for Euros
Di Stefano between '55/56 and 59/60, Kaka 06/07, Messi 10/11 and 14/15 and Cristiano 13/14 and 16/17 for CL
Ok here's a thought out detailed response. Please don’t TL;DR.I've heard this mentioned a couple of times recently, where is it coming from? Incredible player who was widely regarded as the best in teams that won everything.
Where's the myth?
This is about highest peak, not best player, otherwise it's just the usual names.Not really. An outstanding striker at the peak and his form and luck, but incomparable to someone like Maradona.
Thanks for this, my viewing of him is skewed towards the big games.Ok here's a thought out detailed response. Please don’t TL;DR.
The legend of Zidane is that he was the mythical Maghreb who frequently dragged his team through tournaments and seasons sparkling goldust on the pitch every time he entered it. But the aura comes a handful of CL games and the Leverkusen goal, the goals in Paris, the near perfect game against Brazil in 06 and Euro 2000. He was in fact very patchy and ornery for large portions of his career.
1. He was never ever ever the best player in the world over a full season the way Ronaldinho or Kaka or Figo were. Just simply never. Zidane could be incredible but he was never incredibly consistent by even the standards of say Figo or Kaka let alone Messi or Ronaldo. he have the talent? Of course! Did he step up in big games? Yes. Was he glorious to watch? You can't imagine!
To give an example of Zidane tasked with leading in a season – look no further than In 98-99. Del Piero had his big knee injury and spent months out. That ended phase one of his career. He was never the same again.
Zidane became main man and Juve finished 7th. 16 points off Milan. Juve were reigning champs and finished 20 points behind their 97-98 total. Zidane was consistently underwhelming that year. He scored 2 goals in 40 and (I think either 2 or no assists). Actually one of his better games was the Roy Keane game in Turin which of course they lost.
Assuming we think numbers are somewhat significant for attackers let alone such talents like Zizou those numbers are shocking. Those are Lingard numbers. He played that year with a young pre-Arsenal Thierry Henry and Pippo Inzaghi. Now Inzaghi still scored goals that year but no one could make up for Del Piero's and part of that was on Zidane's form. Juve actually scored some 25 goals less than the previous year even if their defence only conceded as many as AC Milan's (who won serie A that season).
2. A great peak means the someone who is always the best game in game out for a few seasons. Zidane had some great seasons but they were spread out over a decade not bunched up.
The other thing is Zidane dragging teams through tournaments:
1998: The fact is that Zidane did nothing in 1998 till the final. He was sent off in their second game against the mighty Saudi Arabia. Then he missed the final group game. Missed the 1-0 win over Paraguay. Did nought in a goalless draw v Italy that went to pens where he scored his and Albertini missed.
In the semi vs Croatia it was Thuram (of all people) who scored and Djorkaeff who set up one of the goals up for Thuram.
The final we know what he did.
To compare: Pogba had a far superior world cup in 2018 where he legitimately probably was France's best midfielder and creative outlet while playing severely within himself in a deeper lying position and contributing defensively.
Euro 2000: He was fantastic in Euro 2000. He had a good season building up to it also.
World Cup 2002: Missed the first two games through injury. Had a fairly good game v Denmark but France lost 2-0.
Euro 2004: Was decent. Scored two vs. England which always helps improve a player’s perception in the anglocentric media. Had a pretty underwhelming season coming into
it.
World Cup 2006: Was very good. The game vs Brazil was near perfection. A pretty rank season coming into it.
Zidane left Juve and he was seamlessly replaced by Pavel Nedved (who is genuinely underrated). Zidane at Madrid in the insane teams he played in finished:
1. a distant third behind Valencia and Deportivo la Coruna
2. Champion
3. a distant fourth
4. Second to Ronaldinho's Barca
5. Comprehensively outdone by Ronaldinho's Barca (He retired after this season and the world cup)
You can say a lot for Zidane's lack of league titles at Real. Makelele leaving for instance. But the fact is also that Zidane can and would go months without doing anything much. Plus he was a massive defensive liability which didn't matter when Jacquet got Karembu, Petit and Deschamps behind him in a short tournament but over a season it is much harder to justify.
Conclusion:
I am NOT saying Zidane was overrated. In fact his talent and technique cannot be rated highly enough. I loved him. He was a fantastic moments player. But he was not one you could lean on for a whole season. There were times where he simply COULD NOT BE arsed. In a sense he was the opposite of Thierry Henry who never a great player in big games but season in-season out he was far better than Zidane ever was.
(But Zidane also had big games where he was not that great. 1996 UEFA cup final he played the second leg as Bayern wiped the floor with Bourdeaux. Ok it was only Bourdeaux.
The 1997 final where he was marked out of the game by that titan of football Paul Lambert.
1998 final he started well but then Karembu and Redondo marked him out of the game as Madrid beat a ludicrously good Juventus side 1-0.
He played off the park by his replacement at Juve, Nedved when Juve beat Madrid 3-1 in 2003.)
Overall he was a great player. Probably didn’t do as much as he should have on a season by season basis. Great career. But he never had a so-called great peak that stretched over 2 or 3 seasons. Don’t get too carried away with the Balon D’or and so on. It’s indicative of nothing.
Ironically it is Bale who has resembled Zidane a lot. World record transfer. Obvious greatness. Great Euro performances. Often goes weeks and months not doing very much then goes and wins them the final in ridiculous style.
Great minds think alikeDavor Suker 1998
Great postOk here's a thought out detailed response. Please don’t TL;DR.
The legend of Zidane is that he was the mythical Maghreb who frequently dragged his team through tournaments and seasons sparkling goldust on the pitch every time he entered it. But the aura comes a handful of CL games and the Leverkusen goal, the goals in Paris, the near perfect game against Brazil in 06 and Euro 2000. He was in fact very patchy and ornery for large portions of his career.
1. He was never ever ever the best player in the world over a full season the way Ronaldinho or Kaka or Figo were. Just simply never. Zidane could be incredible but he was never incredibly consistent by even the standards of say Figo or Kaka let alone Messi or Ronaldo. he have the talent? Of course! Did he step up in big games? Yes. Was he glorious to watch? You can't imagine!
To give an example of Zidane tasked with leading in a season – look no further than In 98-99. Del Piero had his big knee injury and spent months out. That ended phase one of his career. He was never the same again.
Zidane became main man and Juve finished 7th. 16 points off Milan. Juve were reigning champs and finished 20 points behind their 97-98 total. Zidane was consistently underwhelming that year. He scored 2 goals in 40 and (I think either 2 or no assists). Actually one of his better games was the Roy Keane game in Turin which of course they lost.
Assuming we think numbers are somewhat significant for attackers let alone such talents like Zizou those numbers are shocking. Those are Lingard numbers. He played that year with a young pre-Arsenal Thierry Henry and Pippo Inzaghi. Now Inzaghi still scored goals that year but no one could make up for Del Piero's and part of that was on Zidane's form. Juve actually scored some 25 goals less than the previous year even if their defence only conceded as many as AC Milan's (who won serie A that season).
2. A great peak means the someone who is always the best game in game out for a few seasons. Zidane had some great seasons but they were spread out over a decade not bunched up.
The other thing is Zidane dragging teams through tournaments:
1998: The fact is that Zidane did nothing in 1998 till the final. He was sent off in their second game against the mighty Saudi Arabia. Then he missed the final group game. Missed the 1-0 win over Paraguay. Did nought in a goalless draw v Italy that went to pens where he scored his and Albertini missed.
In the semi vs Croatia it was Thuram (of all people) who scored and Djorkaeff who set up one of the goals up for Thuram.
The final we know what he did.
To compare: Pogba had a far superior world cup in 2018 where he legitimately probably was France's best midfielder and creative outlet while playing severely within himself in a deeper lying position and contributing defensively.
Euro 2000: He was fantastic in Euro 2000. He had a good season building up to it also.
World Cup 2002: Missed the first two games through injury. Had a fairly good game v Denmark but France lost 2-0.
Euro 2004: Was decent. Scored two vs. England which always helps improve a player’s perception in the anglocentric media. Had a pretty underwhelming season coming into
it.
World Cup 2006: Was very good. The game vs Brazil was near perfection. A pretty rank season coming into it.
Zidane left Juve and he was seamlessly replaced by Pavel Nedved (who is genuinely underrated). Zidane at Madrid in the insane teams he played in finished:
1. a distant third behind Valencia and Deportivo la Coruna
2. Champion
3. a distant fourth
4. Second to Ronaldinho's Barca
5. Comprehensively outdone by Ronaldinho's Barca (He retired after this season and the world cup)
You can say a lot for Zidane's lack of league titles at Real. Makelele leaving for instance. But the fact is also that Zidane can and would go months without doing anything much. Plus he was a massive defensive liability which didn't matter when Jacquet got Karembu, Petit and Deschamps behind him in a short tournament but over a season it is much harder to justify.
Conclusion:
I am NOT saying Zidane was overrated. In fact his talent and technique cannot be rated highly enough. I loved him. He was a fantastic moments player. But he was not one you could lean on for a whole season. There were times where he simply COULD NOT BE arsed. In a sense he was the opposite of Thierry Henry who never a great player in big games but season in-season out he was far better than Zidane ever was.
(But Zidane also had big games where he was not that great. 1996 UEFA cup final he played the second leg as Bayern wiped the floor with Bourdeaux. Ok it was only Bourdeaux.
The 1997 final where he was marked out of the game by that titan of football Paul Lambert.
1998 final he started well but then Karembu and Redondo marked him out of the game as Madrid beat a ludicrously good Juventus side 1-0.
He played off the park by his replacement at Juve, Nedved when Juve beat Madrid 3-1 in 2003.)
Overall he was a great player. Probably didn’t do as much as he should have on a season by season basis. Great career. But he never had a so-called great peak that stretched over 2 or 3 seasons. Don’t get too carried away with the Balon D’or and so on. It’s indicative of nothing.
Ironically it is Bale who has resembled Zidane a lot. World record transfer. Obvious greatness. Great Euro performances. Often goes weeks and months not doing very much then goes and wins them the final in ridiculous style.
Brilliant post! I was around all through Zidane’s time and agree with everything you’ve so eloquently said.Ok here's a thought out detailed response. Please don’t TL;DR.
The legend of Zidane is that he was the mythical Maghreb who frequently dragged his team through tournaments and seasons sparkling goldust on the pitch every time he entered it. But the aura comes a handful of CL games and the Leverkusen goal, the goals in Paris, the near perfect game against Brazil in 06 and Euro 2000. He was in fact very patchy and ornery for large portions of his career.
1. He was never ever ever the best player in the world over a full season the way Ronaldinho or Kaka or Figo were. Just simply never. Zidane could be incredible but he was never incredibly consistent by even the standards of say Figo or Kaka let alone Messi or Ronaldo. he have the talent? Of course! Did he step up in big games? Yes. Was he glorious to watch? You can't imagine!
To give an example of Zidane tasked with leading in a season – look no further than In 98-99. Del Piero had his big knee injury and spent months out. That ended phase one of his career. He was never the same again.
Zidane became main man and Juve finished 7th. 16 points off Milan. Juve were reigning champs and finished 20 points behind their 97-98 total. Zidane was consistently underwhelming that year. He scored 2 goals in 40 and (I think either 2 or no assists). Actually one of his better games was the Roy Keane game in Turin which of course they lost.
Assuming we think numbers are somewhat significant for attackers let alone such talents like Zizou those numbers are shocking. Those are Lingard numbers. He played that year with a young pre-Arsenal Thierry Henry and Pippo Inzaghi. Now Inzaghi still scored goals that year but no one could make up for Del Piero's and part of that was on Zidane's form. Juve actually scored some 25 goals less than the previous year even if their defence only conceded as many as AC Milan's (who won serie A that season).
2. A great peak means the someone who is always the best game in game out for a few seasons. Zidane had some great seasons but they were spread out over a decade not bunched up.
The other thing is Zidane dragging teams through tournaments:
1998: The fact is that Zidane did nothing in 1998 till the final. He was sent off in their second game against the mighty Saudi Arabia. Then he missed the final group game. Missed the 1-0 win over Paraguay. Did nought in a goalless draw v Italy that went to pens where he scored his and Albertini missed.
In the semi vs Croatia it was Thuram (of all people) who scored and Djorkaeff who set up one of the goals up for Thuram.
The final we know what he did.
To compare: Pogba had a far superior world cup in 2018 where he legitimately probably was France's best midfielder and creative outlet while playing severely within himself in a deeper lying position and contributing defensively.
Euro 2000: He was fantastic in Euro 2000. He had a good season building up to it also.
World Cup 2002: Missed the first two games through injury. Had a fairly good game v Denmark but France lost 2-0.
Euro 2004: Was decent. Scored two vs. England which always helps improve a player’s perception in the anglocentric media. Had a pretty underwhelming season coming into
it.
World Cup 2006: Was very good. The game vs Brazil was near perfection. A pretty rank season coming into it.
Zidane left Juve and he was seamlessly replaced by Pavel Nedved (who is genuinely underrated). Zidane at Madrid in the insane teams he played in finished:
1. a distant third behind Valencia and Deportivo la Coruna
2. Champion
3. a distant fourth
4. Second to Ronaldinho's Barca
5. Comprehensively outdone by Ronaldinho's Barca (He retired after this season and the world cup)
You can say a lot for Zidane's lack of league titles at Real. Makelele leaving for instance. But the fact is also that Zidane can and would go months without doing anything much. Plus he was a massive defensive liability which didn't matter when Jacquet got Karembu, Petit and Deschamps behind him in a short tournament but over a season it is much harder to justify.
Conclusion:
I am NOT saying Zidane was overrated. In fact his talent and technique cannot be rated highly enough. I loved him. He was a fantastic moments player. But he was not one you could lean on for a whole season. There were times where he simply COULD NOT BE arsed. In a sense he was the opposite of Thierry Henry who never a great player in big games but season in-season out he was far better than Zidane ever was.
(But Zidane also had big games where he was not that great. 1996 UEFA cup final he played the second leg as Bayern wiped the floor with Bourdeaux. Ok it was only Bourdeaux.
The 1997 final where he was marked out of the game by that titan of football Paul Lambert.
1998 final he started well but then Karembu and Redondo marked him out of the game as Madrid beat a ludicrously good Juventus side 1-0.
He played off the park by his replacement at Juve, Nedved when Juve beat Madrid 3-1 in 2003.)
Overall he was a great player. Probably didn’t do as much as he should have on a season by season basis. Great career. But he never had a so-called great peak that stretched over 2 or 3 seasons. Don’t get too carried away with the Balon D’or and so on. It’s indicative of nothing.
Ironically it is Bale who has resembled Zidane a lot. World record transfer. Obvious greatness. Great Euro performances. Often goes weeks and months not doing very much then goes and wins them the final in ridiculous style.
It's not all about awards, isn't it? He was finishing all of the chances that came his way playing a very good Italy and Juventus sides, but I'd definitely pick Scirea ahead of him as their best player that season/tournament. Personally, I'd say that Conti was at least his equal in their 1982 World Cup campaign and perhaps a better player as well. And he scored more goals than them, but I would be lying if I'd say that Rossi was a better player than Zico (+ Socrates & Falcão) in 1982.This is about highest peak, not best player, otherwise it's just the usual names.
1982 Golden Ball, Golden Boot, Euro Player of the Year and World Player of the Year is a pretty damn high peak.
this isn’t true. Zidane could give consistent 7/10 performances In his sleep, the issue with that is that he had so many 9/10 performances that those became the expected norm and thus his 7/10 performances felt more like 5/10.People tend to forget Zidane wasn't the most consistent of players.
He had the highlight reel though.
Messi 2012 has got to be one of the greatest peaks ever witnessed. He scored 30 goals in 3 months ffs. Some player take the whole season and get nowhere near that amount. And the insane thing about this is that he maintained that consistency for another 9 months.