Its poor from the club after the amount of money spent in the last 2 years under Ole
"Who cares about cups?"
- Thread starter Andycoleno9
- Start date
We'd want to win the EL this season because with us not being in the EL next season and Pogba probably leaving we are about 1000
times less likely to win one next year.
Also we will never be in a cup with a worse final 8 than we are now.
How many years without a trophy are we approaching? 4?
2 and a half under Ole. That would be insanely bad no matter how you look at it.
times less likely to win one next year.
Also we will never be in a cup with a worse final 8 than we are now.
How many years without a trophy are we approaching? 4?
2 and a half under Ole. That would be insanely bad no matter how you look at it.
I agree in principal with what you are saying about FA cup not being a big priority this season, however, if Ole knew his squad wasn't good enough to fight on all fronts then why bother with a strong team in previous rounds? Why bring Bruno off the bench yesterday? And if we have sport scientists monitoring the levels of our players then how did we let it get this bad that players have to be rested in crunch matches instead of being subbed earlier in games throughout the season and bedding in players like VDB.
Its really poor squad management by Ole.
It was probably over a coffee and a newspaper that he decided to play injured Pogba injured Rashford in games that had no meaning and overplay Bruno in matches where it wasn’t needed. keep coming up with excuses for our ex football player. Rests Bruno before a two week international brake. Ole should have done every single thing possible to prevent our hated neighbours a chance to win the treble. We are the only team in England to have accomplished that and we should do everything possible to defend that, specially when its City that might win it.
‘What’s it like living in that head of yours? I just explained that in modern football a lot of these decisions are based on data. Ole is not perfect, the coaching staff isn’t either, but they do make decisions based on club priorities, biometric data, tactical, injuries and so forth. I suppose there are just some on the Caf who aren’t cut out supporting a team in the most competitive league in the world.
He we are then, personal insults “what’s it like living in that head of yours” “not cut out supporting a team” typical of some posters, usually the ones that blindly support our ex football player no matter what. You’ve now come up with modern football biometric data to defend his wrong decisions I’m not suprised because its never his fault is it.
Think about any excellent manager or player without any trophies in their cabinet. Like some nation's golden generation. Will you remember them as clearly as any other decent side which won a trophy? I don' think so. Imagine Löw's side would've won more games than any other without ever winning the world cup. Löw's side would be forever regarded as a weaker side.
Get those trophies, even the minor ones.
Get those trophies, even the minor ones.
What the bloody hell are you going on about? I have no idea why you replied to me with all that. "Ole out mafia" Jesus Christ. I was making a general point about how some fans are arguing from the perspective of the owners and how this cup is worth more money than this one, or finishing fourth has more monetary value than winning an FA Cup, etc. It's all a bit clinical and dispassionate. It's the sort of thing the owners would think, but it's a little dispiriting to see it from some of the fans, both on here and in other places. That's it.
I didn't even mention Ole. I've made my feelings clear on him in the relevant thread. I've said many times he's done a good job at this club overall, and I prefer him to any manager we've had post-Fergie. We've had some great moments under him, and I love the guy, but I ultimately don't believe that he is the man who can win us the biggest prizes. That's it. No "Ole out" or "Ole in" nonsense.
And as for the bold, if you could point out where I've said he smiles too much, or he's overplaying Rashford that would be great. Or have you just gone off on one and lumped me in with everyone else.
Ok. I wont bother quoting posts unless they've been posting for 20yrs. Was the redcafe available then?? . What a pointless few sentences .
This is what its all about.
I can't see any second or fourth position cups there.
I can't see any second or fourth position cups there.
Wrong.
OK.
No but finishing 2nd or fourth will give you chance to win the biggest trophy of them all, the Euorpean cup ol big ears.This is what its all about.
I can't see any second or fourth position cups there.
You got to be in it to win it as they say.
‘There is something called nuance where we can intelligently look at a situation, grasp that we don’t have all the information that the decision makers have, and give some allowance of error. SAF made plenty of selection errors in his day. It’s the curse of the manager to be criticized by armchair footballers with no experience in managing a football team.
all I know is that the Ole run these last two and a half years is the best since SAF retired. We haven’t won any trophies, true. But both the eye test and results make me optimistic about the future. Is he the long term replacement for SAF? I don’t know. But we need to give him more time. It’s a different league era and his task is infinitely more difficult than SAF’s.
and what’s the point in that when we drop out at the first hurdle?
Your welcome, now you know, 2nd,3rd,2nd thats what matters, CL group stage and money from it, nothing else.
much of that was for the previous poster.
I also want to win trophies, but not at the expense of the CL. Why? Because I’d like to build a squad good enough and big enough to truly challenge on four fronts and go toe to toe with Bayern and City and Real. The Glazers won’t dip into their own pockets for anything and therefore sponsorship money and prize money mean more to us than City, Chelsea, Bayern, PSG and Real.
we don’t have a deep squad at this moment in time. The poor signings of Telles and VDB have made it worse. Hopefully in the summer we can make good choices in the transfer market, our young talent can blossom and we can fill out a thin squad.
Carling Cup (or what its called now) is a waste of time.
I like the FA Cup, it's the world's oldest and best domestic cup competition, but truth is big clubs don't remember FA cup wins too much now, it seemed a lot better in the 90's at old Wembley, i don't think it helps semi-finals being played at Wembley now, finals don't seem all that special any more because of this.
I like Europa League, i'd put that higher than winning than FA Cup, also lets you compete for the European Super Cup and is a route to the Champions League if you don't finish in the top4, but yeah trophy wise it's all about winning the Premier League and Champions League really, if you don't win any of those, finishing top 4 is more of a priority than FA Cup or League Cup.
To make the FA Cup great again, scrap the 4th place Champions League spot, only the top 3 play Champions League and whoever wins the FA Cup gets that extra Champions League spot, if one of the top 3 clubs win the FA Cup only then the top4 go into the Champions League.
I like the FA Cup, it's the world's oldest and best domestic cup competition, but truth is big clubs don't remember FA cup wins too much now, it seemed a lot better in the 90's at old Wembley, i don't think it helps semi-finals being played at Wembley now, finals don't seem all that special any more because of this.
I like Europa League, i'd put that higher than winning than FA Cup, also lets you compete for the European Super Cup and is a route to the Champions League if you don't finish in the top4, but yeah trophy wise it's all about winning the Premier League and Champions League really, if you don't win any of those, finishing top 4 is more of a priority than FA Cup or League Cup.
To make the FA Cup great again, scrap the 4th place Champions League spot, only the top 3 play Champions League and whoever wins the FA Cup gets that extra Champions League spot, if one of the top 3 clubs win the FA Cup only then the top4 go into the Champions League.
My name isn't Glazer though.
Again this is just your opinion, just as I have mine, as you are, I guess, like you said an armchair footballer with no experience in managing a football team just like me.
Trophies are a crucial part of any team's legacy. It's ridiculous to say they don't matter. I'd rather win the EL than finished 2nd tbh. Nobody'll give a shit who finished 2nd/3rd/4th in ten years time.
The decline in the last ten years is obvious:
2000-2010
1. Man United 10 (5PL, 1 CL, 1 FAC, 3LC)
2. Chelsea 8 (3PL, 3 FAC, 2LC)
3. Arsenal 5 (2PL, 3FAC)
4. Liverpool 5 (1CL, 2FAC, 2LC)
(...) City 0
2010-2020
1. Man City 11 (4PL, 2FAC, 5LC)
2. Chelsea 8 (2PL, 2FAC, 1LC, 1CL, 2EL)
3. Man United 5 (2PL, 1FAC, 1LC, 1 EL)
4. Arsenal 4 (4FAC)
5. Liverpool 3 (1PL, 1LC, 1CL)
And the list post-Fergie is obviously even more depressing...
The decline in the last ten years is obvious:
2000-2010
1. Man United 10 (5PL, 1 CL, 1 FAC, 3LC)
2. Chelsea 8 (3PL, 3 FAC, 2LC)
3. Arsenal 5 (2PL, 3FAC)
4. Liverpool 5 (1CL, 2FAC, 2LC)
(...) City 0
2010-2020
1. Man City 11 (4PL, 2FAC, 5LC)
2. Chelsea 8 (2PL, 2FAC, 1LC, 1CL, 2EL)
3. Man United 5 (2PL, 1FAC, 1LC, 1 EL)
4. Arsenal 4 (4FAC)
5. Liverpool 3 (1PL, 1LC, 1CL)
And the list post-Fergie is obviously even more depressing...
Its been almost 4 years.. We need to start winning again.
https://lastwonatrophy.co.uk/manchester-utd/
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Well like any cup competition you might get knocked out early, sometimes this also happens in other cups believe it or not.
But perhaps more importantly consistently being in the CL is far more important for the club, the extra revenue and the ability to attract the best players will give us a better chance of building a squad capable of challenging for all major trophies and yes we like to scoff about turning into arsenal but the fact is we havent even been as good as the arsenal team that consistently delivered champions league place finishes since SAF retired, so right now il take some league consistency over a nice day out at wembley.
Besides we havent exactly thrown the domestic cups away we have been knocked out by 1st and 3rd in the league I mean even when we had a world class squad with one of the greatest managers ever we quite often got knocked by good teams or when we got tricky draws.
We might yet win the EL which would be a trophy aswell so all is not lost this season yet.
Still ahead of the non-oil clubs!
The statement was "You cannot measure a team's progress by the minor cups it has won" and not "Who cares about cups". As an example, if Ole won the EL / FA cup and missed out on top four this year or barely scraped by like we did last year that is not progress. On the contrary, if we finish comfortably second but don't win anything this year, that counts as progress (from last season).
Note that nothing here says that cups aren't important or we don't want any cups. Failure in cups still deserves criticism, but success doesn't automatically mean we're better.
Note that nothing here says that cups aren't important or we don't want any cups. Failure in cups still deserves criticism, but success doesn't automatically mean we're better.
I do not think OGS is the man to make us an elite side that competes for the major trophies consistently but I don't think he said anything wrong there. It is similar to what Pochettino used to say or what Klopp in fact did. Klopp never bothered with the domestic cups and made it clear that only the league and CL mattered. Their league finish of second behind City was far more indicative of progress and what to come than our League Cup and Europa League wins under Mourinho by quite some distance. Many average teams win the odd cup, you can't say the same about getting 90+ points in a league as competitive as the PL.
Obviously this can't go on forever and if you are at Manchester United, sooner or later you have to win trophies and no amount of progress will make up for that. However, those trophies cannot be second tier. If we reach the day where we are celebrating them despite not being a truly elite team that challenges for the PL and CL, it will signal that we no longer are an elite club. It probably was not the most diplomatic thing to say from him as you know the media will eat him alive for it, which is weird because he has been a master at pandering to the fans with all the Manchester United this and Manchester United that. But on this one occasion, I don't see anything wrong with his logic, I see much wrong with much else though which is another topic.
Obviously this can't go on forever and if you are at Manchester United, sooner or later you have to win trophies and no amount of progress will make up for that. However, those trophies cannot be second tier. If we reach the day where we are celebrating them despite not being a truly elite team that challenges for the PL and CL, it will signal that we no longer are an elite club. It probably was not the most diplomatic thing to say from him as you know the media will eat him alive for it, which is weird because he has been a master at pandering to the fans with all the Manchester United this and Manchester United that. But on this one occasion, I don't see anything wrong with his logic, I see much wrong with much else though which is another topic.