"Who cares about cups?"

[Andycoleno9]

"Play the kids", "Rest the players", "Who cares for this Mickey Mouse cup", etc..etc..
That is a story here last few years. PL and CL are all for lots of fans care. Why is that? Since when winning trophies became irelevant? I would understand that we are like City who are winning at least one cup every year so fans became spoiled and are concentrated on big stuff. But we are winning nothing for years. Since Fergie left we won 3 trophies.

So, why many fans don't care for cups?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Arsenal won a cup last year. That was nice

 

[Spaghetti]

I sometimes think fans say it to ease the pain of defeat / save face if they don’t win.

It’s way easier to win a cup than the league and I don’t think anyone has said “haha you are pathetic; you won the FA cup”.

I agree, it’s an odd one. I love cup final day (when United are in it).

 

[The Oracle]

Every competition Utd are in, I want them to win it... so that means I care about all Cups - whether fans consider them Mickey Mouse trophies or not.

 

[Deery]

It’s our only realistic chance to win silverware this season I’d love us to win the fa cup.

 

[He'sRaldo]

@Andycoleno9 it's because we're experiencing a big trophy drought, so it makes sense to focus resources into those 2 competitions.

No other cups can make up for not winning the PL or CL, they are simply an added bonus.

 

[Shane88]

It's especially fecking braindead when you're saying it after your team has lost 4 semi-finals in a year.

 

[Tiber]

LVG got fired on the day he won the fa cup.... and it was 100% justified. Winning a cup is nice, but its a low priority.

 

[DWelbz19]

It's especially fecking braindead when you're saying it after your team has lost 4 semi-finals in a year.

Pretty much.

 

[RedDevil@84]

This has been done to death. Some people adhere to the "greater good" logic. If you don't believe in it, then it is difficult to see sense in it

So that would mean many things. The same person may agree with some and not agree with others

- Get out of cups, if our team is not ready to win them all, to focus our efforts in PL.
- Not waste time in EL, because it is Thursday and it is just EL meh. This brings out "But we are Manchester United ffs" statements.
- Lose games because that would get the manager fired, because that is what the greater good is.
- Pray for injuries for our own players, because that would force the hand of the club to buy a player for that position we desperately need at the club

And all such things.

I do not believe in any of the above. So I want us to win every game we play, win every cup we get into, it doesn't matter what is the greater good.

 

[Teja]

Do you believe the squad you have / had is good enough to compete on multiple fronts? When Martial, Rashford and Pogba were injured for long stretches of last season I think the answer's definitely no - we didn't have the squad.

This season we do have a better squad, but with COVID related fixture congestion, it's a wash and I still think we shouldn't / can't afford to take League / FA cups seriously.

What do you do if you over play Bruno for example and he gets injured in a cup game as Rashford did last season? That's our entire season down the drain.

 

[gerdm07]

I like cups when they are part of a double or treble. The FA Cup and League Cup matches are not shown in the US so it's hard to get excited about them. I watch The Europa League matches on Glavision in Spanish. At least I get to hear "goaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal."

The cups are sort of like the NBA and NFL playoffs first round in that they are not too meaningful. It gets exciting with the semis and final.

 

[OleBoiii]

I like to watch football and thus I like the domestic cups as well, but I can understand why people don't care for them.

First of all, the element of luck plays a much bigger part and everyone knows this. That immediately takes some of the glory away. It's also frustrating to work hard on something and have a bullshit call or a freaky deflection ruin everything. Luck plays a part in leagues as well, but it's the best we got.

Secondly, most PL fans don't even remember who won the FA cup two years ago unless it was their own team. And I wouldn't be surprised if 50% already have forgotten who won last year. PL wins on the other hand are rarely forgotten, even by neutrals. And it stays that way for a long time. I think I can remember every PL winner in the correct order and I generally suck at remembering football facts.

Thirdly, domestic cups do in fact affect our PL and CL/EL results. Considering how small the margins can be, even a 5% drop in quality as a result of domestic cup play could prove disastrous.

 

[Kag]

LVG got fired on the day he won the fa cup.... and it was 100% justified. Winning a cup is nice, but its a low priority.

I think the FA Cup is by far the best achievement we’ve had since Ferguson retired. I hate that we’ve won it so few times of late and I was gutted when we were so poor in the semi last season.

We’re not going to win the league and I expect us to finish in the top four. What else is there to care about if not for the FA Cup?

 

[Mindhunter]

The football economy is such that staying within the CL positions is paramount for the math to work in the long run. An FA cup win will give you bragging rights but your bank account will be lower by 40m pounds and you won't be able to attract players already at CL clubs during the summer.

Clubs want to win cups as long as the CL position is assured.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I always want us to take the cups seriously, and I'm much more concerned about us winning a trophy by the end of the season than getting top four (although it really shouldn't be either / or and is poor management or squad assemblage if the biggest teams can't compete for a top four, or even the league, while still targeting a cup success).

It isn't just fans of the top teams that seem to have this 'who cares about cups?' attitude. A lot of the football league fans that I hear (and I go on 2 or 3 fan sites of clubs at those levels and read what they say as well), are very dismissive about the League Cup and the EFL Trophy.

And the FA Cup only seems to generate interest to them if they draw a non league team away or a big club at home. A draw against a similarly sized lower league club and most fans seem happy to rest their players for the league.

It's a shame. I know money is hugely important, and so CL qualification and promotion and relegation battles are seen as priorities. But even fans of mid table clubs, or clubs with the squad size to cope with more than one priority, seem to regard the domestic cups (and the EL) as inconvenient burdens that players should be rested for, rather than an exciting chance to win some major silverware.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I want us to win all cups, FA cup is also a major trophy for me.
But having said that I don't think a club of our history belongs in the Europa and will never feel to excited about winning it. Its like Real Madrid winning the Europa league, its just doesnt sound right.

 

[RedIan]

During the fergie era when we used to win the league every year the cups mattered less, now i desperately want to win anything.. Fa Cup would be splendid.

 

[horsechoker]

Only mugs care about cups

*ba dum tssh*

 

[Rood]

Towards the end of the Fergie era, the domestic cups were certainly of less importance and a chance to blood the youth - but they became more important again after he left and I was very happy to win the trophies just to confirm we could still do it without Fergie!

Obviously Id still love to win a cup but now I feel getting back some consistency in the league has to be the priority and I reckon our recent trophy wins often came at the expense of league position. Top 4 is the 1st priority and Id probably say Id prefer to come 2nd and challenge for the league than win the FA Cup.

Id also sacrifice the Europa League - we only need to go all out for that if top4 is looking difficult and at the moment it isnt so we dont need the distraction, travel etc

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I sometimes think fans say it to ease the pain of defeat / save face if they don’t win.

There were people on this forum saying the League Cup loss to Citeh was meh cause we should focus on the FA Cup game that weekend versus Watford.

This is spot on.

We are Manchester United, we should be trophy collectors; I loved watching us win every & anything, obviously winning a European Cup was outstanding but this notion that winning FA/League Cups isn’t something to be proud of is something I’ve never got.

If we were dominating leagues & competing for the top European honours then yes, prioritise but we aren’t so should be trying in every competition.

 

[RUCK4444]

It depends on the context of the current situation for the club.

Were lucky enough to have won these cup competitions many times.

So speaking for myself whilst there is never a bad time to win a cup there can be a bad time to exhaust your starting 11 when top four (and progress within the league in general) is what decides your managers fate.

For example would I be happy if we managed to get to an FA cup final but as a result Bruno and Cavani were injured and out for a long period resulting in us finishing outside the top four? No, no I wouldn’t.

It’s impossible to ignore the valid reasoning why managers have to use the cup comps as a chance to rotate players. There are literally no easy league games anymore, massive pressure on each manager to keep their team progressing in the league in order to retain their own employment. It’s also the best time to give youngsters a run out.

That’s why we see the current situation so you can’t really blame the managers or cautious fans for their stance on it.

 

[bosnian_red]

It's one of those that it depends on the past few years, the next few years and the current year. In 2015/16, the FA Cup for me was way more important than the top 4. This year is similar in that I don't have too many worries about finishing top 4, so don't give a feck about finishing 2/3/4 but would prioritize the FA Cup and then the Europa League as well. Trophies can be an excellent starter to push on to better things, but as fans it's what you want to see more than anything. United especially hasn't won a trophy since 2017. Not acceptable for us, and needs to end asap. Said it before the season, but a trophy is an absolute must.

 

[JMack1234]

I care about the cups because I think the value of any trophy to Ole and half our squad would be so so high.

 

[VeevaVee]

I wish the FA Cup got more respect. Would make it more fun. I think the Worthington Cup ruined cups.

I don’t know how you’d even go about making it back in to a big deal.

For what it’s worth, I still think it is to an extent, but it’s definitely fallen from grace since it’s glory days.

 

[Bondi77]

I care about Cups but we do not have to keep fielding the same side every week.
There is no excuse for any of the big sides in the Premier League for not taking every competition seriously, look at the size of the squads FFS!

 

[pablo__p]

I completely don't get it.

Been always like that, though. I remember in early 00s a 16 yo me who just started lurking redcafe and couldn't believe that people didn't care about "Europe" (which meant CL back than) or FA Cup (and I'm not even English).

 

[cyril C]

While League Cup was OK and almost out of the way, FA is always a challenge. Let's say you have CL 1st leg game on Wed, FA on Sat, EPL City on following Wed. Are you going to play your best 11 3 times in a row, or are you going to rotate?

Having Europa instead, you can probably afford to be more strategic, but still play your best 11 in FA and rest a few against City?

That's why I always stated achieving Treple is impossible nowadays, you will need an easy draw in FA and CL, and got a bit of cushion in EPL to afford prioritisation.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

If you ask any fan one simple question; "would you rather win the league or the FA Cup?", Then the entire thing falls apart because it just highlights how little the cup means anymore.

At least with the Champions League there's a feeling of your status being elevated somewhat. You did well in the league and now you're in the Promised Land filled with pixies and orcs and shithead Turkish referees who give Nani a red card but let that feckhead Ramos get away with murder.

But the cup? It's just window dressing. To me, anyway.

 

[Tallis]

In order for the club to progress forward (in terms of players we sign, our profile and financial capacity to invest) - the top 4 race is more important than winning the cups. But we should obviously play teams that can done the job done on the day and take them seriously. But I am not opposed to resting a couple of players now and then to keep them fresh for EPL games.

 

[Loon]

The Treble is the Treble partly because of the FA Cup. Nobody thinks it’s insignificant when we bang on about winning the Treble. I love FA Cup day. It used to be brilliant when the BBC made a day’s programming out of it.

 

[RogerO69]

In the 70ths and 80ths FA cup win was almost similar to a League win and European win, and the league cup were a Mickey Mouse cup. After PL and CL were introdused the situation altered. It became more important to be top 4 in league to reach CL than win FA cup. All because of the money. League cup still were the Mickey Mouse cup until Chelsea and City (and maybe Arsenal) got world class players doubled up in every position in there teams. Until then, league cup were a cup for youngsters and benchplayers in PL to show off against equal or lower competition. League cup has since then increased value and almost reached FA cup value because of the quality in the teams participating. Still not up there though.

And then it is all up to the prioritizing of your own. I will take a top PL 4 before a FA cup any time, regards to qualifying for CL next year. If top 4 is secured, FA cup is a bonus, and league cup as well. The main goal for me next to winning PL is to watch us compete in CL. As a result of this, if we are outside top 4, I will have us winning the European League before FA or League cup. If that makes sence :-)

 

[The Brown Bull]

The Treble is the Treble partly because of the FA Cup. Nobody thinks it’s insignificant when we bang on about winning the Treble. I love FA Cup day. It used to be brilliant when the BBC made a day’s programming out of it.

Agreed.
Its one of the things I dislike about modern football, the devaluation of the League Cup and especially the FA Cup.
Of course the league is more important but what do you play football for but to win trophies & glory?

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

It’s way easier to win a cup than the league and I don’t think anyone has said “haha you are pathetic; you won the FA cup”.

To be fair, if you were bragging about winning cups, people would definitely take the piss.

Look at Arsenal in Wenger’s last few years. They won the cup three times in four years and it was more of a punchline than anything.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Agreed.
Its one of the things I dislike about modern football, the devaluation of the League Cup and especially the FA Cup.
Of course the league is more important but what do you play football for but to win trophies & glory?

The problem is there is not that much glory attached to the league cup or FA cup these days. I'd obviously like us to win any trophy we can but the gap between the PL and FA cup is now so stratospheric and hence many would logically take progress in the former over winning the latter. Winning the FA cup while doing feck all as a club regarding your true goals, that isn't a high that lasts long. We've won three trophies during LVg and Mourinho's tenures and I'm sure I enjoyed those moments but it hasn't changed a miserable last 8 years for the club. Watching a team that plays exciting football and is making progress towards the title would have been more satisfying as a fan than watching dull rubbish football with a few trophies along the way. Probably.

 

[SecondFig]

I absolutely care about the FA Cup (and Europa League). Have to admit, I only care about the League Cup if we get to the semis. Before that I am fully in the "play the kids" group

 

[Dante]

Our finishes since Fergie have been:

2014 - 7th
2015 - 4th
2016 - 5th
2017 - 6th
2018 - 2nd
2019 - 6th
2020 - 3rd

We've never had two top 4 finishes in consecutive seasons. As much as I'd like to be able to celebrate a cup win, I honestly believe consolidating our league position is more important than that at this point.

We've been yo-yoing in and out of the Champions League for years and that's a terrible reflection on the club, imo. You could argue that it's worse to have not won any cups in years. But I think our overall status depends more on our league record than our cup record.

We used to be able to say we were the biggest team in the world or the best team in England. Not any more. If we want to get back to that, we first have to be able say we're one of the best teams in the Premier League and then build from there. I don't think a Europa League, FA Cup or League Cup will help us achieve that.

So if a tiring cup campaign is harmful to our chances of maintaining the progress from last year's 3rd place, I don't think it'll be worth it. The league is the meat and potatoes; and the cups are the dessert. You don't build up your strength by filling up on cake before you've finished your steak.

 

[Sayros]

I think one can lead into the other, in regards to cup wins vs winning the league. You need the players to develop a hunger for trophies and winning, and the cup competition is still an achievement, no matter how some might belittle it (including myself at times), but I want to think it has to be a positive for team morale and desire for more success when you finish the season with at least one trophy.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I think the FA Cup is by far the best achievement we’ve had since Ferguson retired.

Beating Crystal Palace in the FA Cup final in extra time was by far a bigger achievement than beating Ajax in a European final?

Our cup run:

Sheff United
Derby
Shrewsbury
West Ham
Everton
C. Palace

 

[Water Melon]

Winning EL will at least show that we are the best amoung second tire European clubs and belong to the first tire. The way we bottled our CL group still hurts. Unforgievable.