"Who cares about cups?"

[SAFMUTD]

Personally the cup holds value when its accompanied by the league or UCL. Besides that is a second tier tournament. I mean sure our aim should be to win absolutely every tournament we're in. But the excitement that winning the FA cup, league cup or Europa League brings is nothing compared to winning the league and specially the champions league.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Personally the cup holds value when its accompanied by the league or UCL. Besides that is a second tier tournament. I mean sure our aim should be to win absolutely every tournament we're in. But the excitement that winning the FA cup, league cup or Europa League brings is nothing compared to winning the league and specially the champions league.

I also think there’s a big difference with winning a cup when it also happens alongside a strong league campaign. Winning the 2 cups with Jose did lose a bit of shine when we finished sixth in the league, as did the FA Cup and fifth place finish. Bit similar really to Arsenal last year.

To finish second say this season and win the FA Cup or Europa league, now that really would feel like huge progress.

 

[Crustanoid]

They’re great when you win them but not our priority, Glazers aside, our club should be aiming for better.

The two plastic clubs love them as they are a chance to falsify some kind of history, and that’s probably a big reason for their devaluation in recent years.

 

[Isotope]

I also think there’s a big difference with winning a cup when it also happens alongside a strong lead campaign. Winning the 2 cups with Jose did lose a bit of shine when we finished sixth in the league, as did the FA Cup and fifth place finish. Bit similar really to Arsenal last year.

To finish second say this season and win the FA Cup or Europa league, now that really would feel like huge progress.

love this.

 

[Roane]

When you have a young team or a new manager then winning any cup is a step in the right direction. It sets you up for more glory and helps a winning mentality amongst the players, staff etc.

A trophy and top 4 finish would be brilliant for our team and Ole. It's something to build on.

 

[K Stand Knut]

A certain percentage of fans who whinge about the FA Cup will be whinging if Ole doesn’t win a trophy at the end of the season.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Winning cups bring a lot:
1) Feeling good factor among players AND fans. I bet that all people who say "feck the cup" enjoyed when we beat Saints in "minor" League cup. Not to mention Fa cup final vs Palace and especially EL final.
2) Trophies count. It is nice to look at trophy cabinet and see at numbers of trophies. It is nice to have THE most trophies in England and it is nice to to be one of 6 clubs in Europe who have won all trophies possible.
3) Winning trophies puts you in media headlines and raises your reputation.
4) Winning mentality.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Cups will be important when we are the best in the land, but getting to the top is more important first.

If you gave me the choice of top 4 again this year or league cup? i'm taking top 4 every time.

We have to cement ourselves as regular's in the CL again, no "big team" can say they are big and be playing Europa.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Said as much quite a few times, my biggest memories as a kid at football are finals. Be they the FA cup, playoffs in lower leagues, or on television I don't remember anything about group stage champions League games or the final matches of seasons we finish third or whatever. As a fan you remember watching a team lift a trophy and if you're there, it's extra special.

 

[Spaghetti]

To be fair, if you were bragging about winning cups, people would definitely take the piss.

Look at Arsenal in Wenger’s last few years. They won the cup three times in four years and it was more of a punchline than anything.

That’s a good point, although I think it was more about people determined to maintain the “Wenger has lost it” narrative. I don’t think any real football fan genuinely thought badly of them for winning three FA cups in four years. Maybe I’m wrong.

There’s also a big difference between winning them and feeling happy and bragging about it.

I’d be made up with an FA Cup and Europa League double and finishing second in the league this season.

 

[Adam-Utd]

That’s a good point, although I think it was more about people determined to maintain the “Wenger has lost it” narrative. I don’t think any real football fan genuinely thought badly of them for winning three FA cups in four years. Maybe I’m wrong.

There’s also a big difference between winning them and feeling happy and bragging about it.

I’d be made up with an FA Cup and Europa League double and finishing second in the league this season.

We'd be happy for a few days, then forget about it.

Where as if we missed the top 4 it effects our whole summer and the next season also. Financially it's also a huge difference. Winning the league / CL is obviously the prime objectives, but I don't think anybody cares about the FA cup / league cup as much as you make out. I couldn't even tell you the last 5/6 winners of either.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I also think there’s a big difference with winning a cup when it also happens alongside a strong league campaign. Winning the 2 cups with Jose did lose a bit of shine when we finished sixth in the league, as did the FA Cup and fifth place finish. Bit similar really to Arsenal last year.

To finish second say this season and win the FA Cup or Europa league, now that really would feel like huge progress.

I agree that winning cup with league or CL adds something to that cup. But what is difference between 2nd and 4th place? Nothing.
What is difference between 2nd place and 8th place (if you win EL which gives you CL spot)? Nothing.

Last two years we are in some odd cycle. We sacrifice cups to finish in top 4 and to play in CL. Then in that CL we set our goal to reach knockout phase. If not, no big problem, "we could not win it anyway". But lets get that 4th spot again no matter what so we can next year play in CL where again we will be happy by reaching knockout phase.
I fully understand how important is CL because of money and prestige but winning stuff is important too.

 

[groovyalbert]

Winning EL will at least show that we are the best amoung second tire European clubs and belong to the first tire. The way we bottled our CL group still hurts. Unforgievable.

Add to that we need to boost our UEFA coefficient score as from next year (I think) our 16/17 win is no longer used to rank us. Meaning we're likely tog get more CL groups like this season going forward.

 

[Spaghetti]

We'd be happy for a few days, then forget about it.

Where as if we missed the top 4 it effects our whole summer and the next season also. Financially it's also a huge difference. Winning the league / CL is obviously the prime objectives, but I don't think anybody cares about the FA cup / league cup as much as you make out. I couldn't even tell you the last 5/6 winners of either.

I said Europa League, not league cup. We are already out of the league cup. I also said 2nd in the league. This means we qualify for the Champions League twice.

I also couldn’t name the last 5 winners of the FA Cup or League Cup. City usually win the league cup and Arsenal the FA cup!

 

[roonster09]

I agree that winning cup with league or CL adds something to that cup. But what is difference between 2nd and 4th place? Nothing.
What is difference between 2nd place and 8th place (if you win EL which gives you CL spot)? Nothing.

Last two years we are in some odd cycle. We sacrifice cups to finish in top 4 and to play in CL. Then in that CL we set our goal to reach knockout phase. If not, no big problem, "we could not win it anyway". But lets get that 4th spot again no matter what so we can next year play in CL where again we will be happy by reaching knockout phase.
I fully understand how important is CL because of money and prestige but winning stuff is important too.

A lot.

We didn't sacrifice cups to finish in top 4.

2018-19: we knocked out Arsenal and Chelsea from the cup and both away from home and by the time we played Wolves away our players were on their knees.

2019-20: We were knocked out by ManCity in league cup who just blew us away in first leg and then we were knocked out in semi finals for FA cup against Chelsea. We also lost the game which we deserved to win vs Sevilla in semi finals of Europa league.

We didn't throw away or sacrifice any cups. We played and lost in semi finals against very strong teams.

 

[Judas]

I agree that winning cup with league or CL adds something to that cup. But what is difference between 2nd and 4th place? Nothing.
What is difference between 2nd place and 8th place (if you win EL which gives you CL spot)? Nothing.

Last two years we are in some odd cycle. We sacrifice cups to finish in top 4 and to play in CL. Then in that CL we set our goal to reach knockout phase. If not, no big problem, "we could not win it anyway". But lets get that 4th spot again no matter what so we can next year play in CL where again we will be happy by reaching knockout phase.
I fully understand how important is CL because of money and prestige but winning stuff is important too.

Depends how close you finish to number 1. If you're in a legitimate title hunt, and within a chance of winning it right to the death, obviously there's a huge difference. Ultimately there's no trophy for 2nd, but in terms of progress of a team, it does mean something.

We've never sacrificed cups, we've simply just lost.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Funny enough it was cups, three of them that got SAF up and running. We need to start winning, because to be honest while the likes of City are around with Pep don't think we will win the league. The longer we fail to win something and it is a failure the pressure will build and build on Ole, especially if somebody with less resources manages to win something. Also people going on about the CL, that ends up as a glorified cup competition in the end. The more we fail the the less likely they will win, because winning breeds confidence.

Also I would prefer players who think winning trophies is the pinnacle not that getting big pay packet is.

 

[dinostar77]

Carabo cup needs to go permanently. Dont care about FA cup at all. CL, PL and Europa are my preferences.

 

[Andycoleno9]

A lot.

We didn't sacrifice cups to finish in top 4.

2018-19: we knocked out Arsenal and Chelsea from the cup and both away from home and by the time we played Wolves away our players were on their knees.

2019-20: We were knocked out by ManCity in league cup who just blew us away in first leg and then we were knocked out in semi finals for FA cup against Chelsea. We also lost the game which we deserved to win vs Sevilla in semi finals of Europa league.

We didn't throw away or sacrifice any cups. We played and lost in semi finals against very strong teams.

Yes we did. Last year vs Chelsea we rested key players (some of them came from bench when things went to shit).

 

[Inigo Montoya]

"Play the kids", "Rest the players", "Who cares for this Mickey Mouse cup", etc..etc..
That is a story here last few years. PL and CL are all for lots of fans care. Why is that? Since when winning trophies became irelevant? I would understand that we are like City who are winning at least one cup every year so fans became spoiled and are concentrated on big stuff. But we are winning nothing for years. Since Fergie left we won 3 trophies.

So, why many fans don't care for cups?

Entitled 'nouveaux fans'
Cups were all some of us had to hang on to in the trophy ravaged years. I know we've set higher standards in recent years but it doesn't mean we should discard cups as irrelevant or unworthy

 

[roonster09]

Yes we did. Last year vs Chelsea we rested key players (some of them came from bench when things went to shit).

We played:
De Gea - First choice keeper, didn't even play Romero who used to play in cup games
Maguire - First choice CB
Lindelof - First choice CB
Bailly - Played 3 CB formation, so he is next in line. He went off injured when the score was 0-0 and brought in Martial in first half.
AWB - First choice RB
Williams - Shaw was injured, so Williams was next choice

Fred - He was first choice before Covid break. Then was squad player.
Matic - He was first choice after the restart alongside Pogba and Bruno

Bruno - Our best player

Rashford -First choice player.
James - Bench player

Since we played 3 at the back at best we didn't play 2 key players, Pogba and Martial. MArtial came on in 42nd min and Pogba in 55th min.

 

[Parma Dewol]

I'd admit to being one of those who doesn't care so much for the cups these days.

While I can't deny that nothing tops winning trophies, I think the sport has evolved in such a way that the PL and CL stand above all else for obvious reasons. And there are now a multitude of other factors at play. First and foremost there's fixture congestion, which is even worse due to the pandemic. Games come so thick and fast that the natural inclination among fans is to rest players for the cup games. At the start of the season, I think a lot of fans would be happy to see the second string and various youth players feature exclusively in the EFL Cup. It's a chance for others to step up, and for the first team to take an often needed break.

On top of fixture congestion, there's the financial and competitive incentive. Win the CL (or get to the final, even) and you get huge financial prizes (£15m+) and global recognition. Winning the PL speaks for itself. Get top four and you win big money (£30m+) as well as a chance to get back to the CL stage. In start contrast, win the EFL Cup and you get £100,000 prize money (that's from Wikipedia, surely can't be right?!) and a spot in the Europa League next season. Don't get me wrong, a trophy is a trophy, but for top sides those prizes are bordering on detrimental to the next campaign.

Similar problems surround the FA Cup. What used to be a great tournament has been left behind the times by poor decisions from the top. Whereas the PL and CL have dramatically transformed their profile and prestige over the last few decades, the FA Cup continues to go backwards. People (fans, players, managers) have been saying for years that the FA Cup should have no replays and that the semi finals should not be played at Wembley. There are opportunities to really improve the appeal of the competition, but bad decision after bad decision has kept it stagnant. Just imagine if the winner of the FA Cup grabbed a Champions League qualification spot? It would be transformed into must-win overnight. One of the biggest annoyances for me with the FA Cup is the media's incessant talk over how great it used to be and how we all grew up with it. It was great, I get it, and I've been to some fantastic cup games myself, but it isn't what it used to be, and quite frankly, as fun as cup upsets were back in the day, does anybody want to see Scunthorpe and Bristol in the final in this day and age?

Unless the format of the cups changes in the coming years, I can't see myself being all too bothered about them. Would it be nice to win the FA Cup this season? Yeah, sure, but it is definitely third on the list of priorities, behind a good finish in the Premier League and a strong run in the Europa League.

 

[Bondi77]

If you ask any fan one simple question; "would you rather win the league or the FA Cup?", Then the entire thing falls apart because it just highlights how little the cup means anymore.

At least with the Champions League there's a feeling of your status being elevated somewhat. You did well in the league and now you're in the Promised Land filled with pixies and orcs and shithead Turkish referees who give Nani a red card but let that feckhead Ramos get away with murder.

But the cup? It's just window dressing. To me, anyway.

At any time in football history if you ask a fan would he rather the league over the Cup it would always be the league as it proves which team was the best in the season.
Have you recently started watching English football?

 

[DOTA]

There's only two serious competitions. The Europa League is only important if you need it for Champions League qualification and the domestic cups are just a bonus. The Super Cup and World Club Championship are just friendlies.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

At any time in football history if you ask a fan would he rather the league over the Cup it would always be the league as it proves which team was the best in the season.
Have you recently started watching English football?

Did you just repeat what I said then ask if I recently started watching English football?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I agree that winning cup with league or CL adds something to that cup. But what is difference between 2nd and 4th place? Nothing.
What is difference between 2nd place and 8th place (if you win EL which gives you CL spot)? Nothing.

Ask Arsenal what’s the difference between a cup win and a position higher up the table.

Think it through for a second mate, Arsenal won the FA cup but finished eighth, we finished third. We won a cup, finishing 5th and and finished 6th the next season.
Arsenal, are in 11th in mid-Feb, so great was that cup win.

Who was likely to have the better season this season, the cup winners and 8th placed side, or the side that finished 3rd?

 

[cyberman]

I dont care about cups whe we are rebuilding like this.
Maybe in a year or 2 we can focus on hoovering up.
Anyway we constantly get to semi finals with horrendous fecking draws and should be praised more for it.

 

[Sandikan]

Obviously there's a pecking order to the trophies, but as we're not quite in the hunt for the top 2 at the moment it's particularly ludicrous to write off the others.

It's the sort of horrible arrogance people hate certain clubs for.

That's not to say you can't be smart and rotate heavily in the earlier rounds. Not doing that would be foolish.

 

[Bondi77]

Did you just repeat what I said then ask if I recently started watching English football?

What are you talking about?
Years ago when admittedly the FA Cup had a lot of prestige teams would rather have won the league but to play in the Cup final was a close second.
Your implication is it is just an irrelevant trophy.

 

[Lentwood]

"Play the kids", "Rest the players", "Who cares for this Mickey Mouse cup", etc..etc..
That is a story here last few years. PL and CL are all for lots of fans care. Why is that? Since when winning trophies became irelevant? I would understand that we are like City who are winning at least one cup every year so fans became spoiled and are concentrated on big stuff. But we are winning nothing for years. Since Fergie left we won 3 trophies.

So, why many fans don't care for cups?

Winning a cup proves nothing, that’s why. Plus, there’s so many fixtures nowadays we’re at saturation point. How can I get excited about Utd playing Leicester in the FA Cup? We play them twice a year every year!

It would be unpopular with fans outside of the top six but clubs playing in the CL when the FA Cup starts in January should start in the Quarter Finals.

It’s the pragmatic approach to ensure big clubs take it seriously. If they know they are two games from the final from the outset it will be full strength teams and going at it full tilt. I’m sure there would have been some pushback when PL teams started entering in Round 3 or League teams started entering in Round “1”...but all that was done for a reason and the competition needs to move with the times

 

[Devil81]

Give me any trophy at the minute it's been that long!!!

The FA Cup and Europa league double would a hugely successful season if we could pull that off.

 

[Hansi Fick]

I think the whole narrative that taking the FA Cup seriously somehow leads to compromising league results, or that 'concentrating' on the league means you can't try your best in the cups, is fundamentally wrong.

 

[youngrell]

I agree that winning cup with league or CL adds something to that cup. But what is difference between 2nd and 4th place? Nothing.
What is difference between 2nd place and 8th place (if you win EL which gives you CL spot)? Nothing.

Last two years we are in some odd cycle. We sacrifice cups to finish in top 4 and to play in CL. Then in that CL we set our goal to reach knockout phase. If not, no big problem, "we could not win it anyway". But lets get that 4th spot again no matter what so we can next year play in CL where again we will be happy by reaching knockout phase.
I fully understand how important is CL because of money and prestige but winning stuff is important too.

The biggest difference is that it shows growth/progress.

It's quite easy to win a cup if you are not also pushing for the title (or as high a finish as possible) because you are mainly focussing on one competition. Like Jose did with the EL – he essentially threw all our eggs in that basket that season.

Challenging for the top spots in the league while also winning a cup is a big difference. It shows our squad has strengthened and we are closer to where we want to be.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

What are you talking about?
Years ago when admittedly the FA Cup had a lot of prestige teams would rather have won the league but to play in the Cup final was a close second.
Your implication is it is just an irrelevant trophy.

See - now I understand what you mean. Your last post had none of those points.

At any time in football history if you ask a fan would he rather the league over the Cup it would always be the league as it proves which team was the best in the season.
Have you recently started watching English football?

But you're right, I do think that the Cup is sort of irrelevant nowadays, and that is my opinion. A few years ago it wasn't - such as, for example, most of the 25 years I've supported United. But if you ask folk nowadays most young supporters probably see it more as a distraction. That's what I'm talking about, as you put it.

 

[youngrell]

I think the whole narrative that taking the FA Cup seriously somehow leads to compromising league results, or that 'concentrating' on the league means you can't try your best in the cups, is fundamentally wrong.

It's pathetic really, when you consider the size and strength of today's squads compared to when SAF was winning doubles. And they even get to put more subs etc too.

 

[GBBQ]

A 2nd place finish and the FA Cup would be a great season.
A 6th place finish and the FA Cup would be a disappointment.

Cups can be the icing on the cake but at the level united are at its not gonna be enough on its own to turn around a bad season.

 

[youngrell]

Winning a cup proves nothing, that’s why. Plus, there’s so many fixtures nowadays we’re at saturation point. How can I get excited about Utd playing Leicester in the FA Cup? We play them twice a year every year!

It would be unpopular with fans outside of the top six but clubs playing in the CL when the FA Cup starts in January should start in the Quarter Finals.

It’s the pragmatic approach to ensure big clubs take it seriously. If they know they are two games from the final from the outset it will be full strength teams and going at it full tilt. I’m sure there would have been some pushback when PL teams started entering in Round 3 or League teams started entering in Round “1”...but all that was done for a reason and the competition needs to move with the times

That would be a huge detriment to the competition, IMO.

A big part of the FA Cup has always been seeing minnows take on the big boys. If the big boys only entered at QF stage, their chance would effectively be gone. Not to mention the financial impact on those smaller clubs.

 

[Bondi77]

See - now I understand what you mean. Your last post had none of those points.


But you're right, I do think that the Cup is sort of irrelevant nowadays, and that is my opinion. A few years ago it wasn't - such as, for example, most of the 25 years I've supported United. But if you ask folk nowadays most young supporters probably see it more as a distraction. That's what I'm talking about, as you put it.

Fair enough.
It is a shame. But I suppose the FA Cup had more importance in England when there was less importance on European football but money has changed all of that.

 

[SirAF]

Winning trophies is the main objective of football, so naturally it’s important to compete for the cups. Especially when you are not winning league titles. I’d be over the moon with winning either domestic cup at the moment.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

FA Cup is more important than top 4 over a longer time, as long as you get CL again soon afterwards.

If you miss out on the CL for one season, in 5 years time, who cares? United miss out on money, United have loads of money.

I think we’ve established that good players will join United regardless of CL or not, some of the more expensive players have been when United were a Europa League team.

The day of winning the cup stays with you for longer than the ‘top 4 trophy’ which is better reserved for someone like Spurs who can’t win any other trophies.