Who does our signings?

Bastian

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I could ask about this in another thread but I see so many conflicting posts and they might all just be opinions: about Mourinho not really signing player x or y, but that player x or y had been arranged by the club* and Mourinho may or may not have had a say. That some signings are definitely his and some are not.

This is not a Mourinho thread so keep your bile to yourself please. This is a thread on the structure of our recruitment process.

Does anyone actually know something about our signings post Fergie. Did Moyes ask for Fellaini and Mata? Did LVG ask for those 20 or however many players, specifically?

I'd rather know now then after he walks or is sacked. I was under the impression that Jose made all the specific calls, but I think LVG and Moyes maybe did not, in every instance. So I wonder if it's the same with Jose.

*by club, I'm not even sure what I mean, I don't know the process. If it's only Woodward and the manager at the time, or if there are other people involved.
 

Bastian

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@Damien If it's not too much hassle, could you change the title to "Who does our signings"?

edit: Thank you mate!
 
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settembrini

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Mourinho gives a list of players he wants to Woodward. Then Woodward tries to buy them*. Mourinho has stated this multiple times in press conferences and interviews. There are no signings we have made since he became our manager that were not 'his signings'.

*Except for last summer, when Woodward apparently didn't like the players on the list.
 

Damien

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@Damien If it's not too much hassle, could you change the title to "Who does our signings"?
Done but you can change via Thread tools top right.

Moyes wanted Fellaini - remember us putting in that double bid for Baines and Fellaini? Just that after that failed he thought he could get better players, dithered a bit and we ended up going back in for Fellaini in the end.

I get the impression that Mata was more of a club signing but one that Moyes wouldn't turn down.

Ultimately it is impossible to know who decides on what player. Think Mourinho made the final call on all his signings but in the case of Dalot I think one of our scouts or Ribalta might have brought his name up in the first place. In Mourinho's second season he specifically stated he made a list of targets with first, second and third choice so I'd be surprised if anyone thinks any of those players weren't decided by him. Same goes for this season. Mourinho couldn't have made it more clear that the signings made are his.
 

Bastian

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Done but you can change via Thread tools top right.

Moyes wanted Fellaini - remember us putting in that double bid for Baines and Fellaini? Just that after that failed he thought he could get better players, dithered a bit and we ended up going back in for Fellaini in the end.

I get the impression that Mata was more of a club signing but one that Moyes wouldn't turn down.

Ultimately it is impossible to know who decides on what player. Think Mourinho made the final call on all his signings but in the case of Dalot I think one of our scouts or Ribalta might have brought his name up in the first place. In Mourinho's second season he specifically stated he made a list of targets with first, second and third choice so I'd be surprised if anyone thinks any of those players weren't decided by him.
Thanks for the tip, didn't know about that.

On topic: It might be impossible to know, but I'm sort of fishing here. If there are quotes I've not seen during the LVG reign or some reports regarding Jose's reign. Also, if there are players we've gone for without a manager having asked for them, that have not come off.

Like I say, I think Jose has chosen all the players himself, I just wondered seeing so many say differently with certain players. Whether he's laid out a profile for certain positions and the club has done the rest in some instances. Whether Sanchez was his target and so on. I know, it's a shot in the dark, just wondering if there is any actual information out there on this.
 

fishfingers15

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Well it depends. When lindelof was signed for example, it was a Mou signing. Performed at Portugal and used his influence etc. When he didn't perform however, he became 'one of the alternate options that the manager suggested'. Similar with bailly.

So I guess it all depends on the success of the player
 

charlenefan

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IMO

Fellaini - Moyes
Mata - Moyes/Club
Shaw - Club
Herrera - Club
Di Maria - Club/LVG
Rojo - LVG
Blind - LVG
Falcao - Club
Darmian - LVG
Schweinsteiger - LVG
Schneiderlin - LVG
Martial - Club/LVG
Bailly - Mourinho
Pogba - Club/Mourinho
Zlatan - Mourinho
Mkhitaryan - Club/Mourinho
Lindelof - Club/Mourinho
Lukaku - Mourinho
Matic - Mourinho
Sanchez - Club/Mourinho
Delot - Mourinho
Fred - Club/Mourinho

I'd imagine in a lot of cases it's a mutually agreed thing based on a list of players for a certain position or the manager green lighting a possible buy
 

Bastian

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Well it depends. When lindelof was signed for example, it was a Mou signing. Performed at Portugal and used his influence etc. When he didn't perform however, he became 'one of the alternate options that the manager suggested'. Similar with bailly.

So I guess it all depends on the success of the player
:D Yeah, I think that may be the case in quite a few posts.

I do wonder about Sanchez though.

I would love to see his target lists since he was appointed.
 
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TMDaines

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Mourinho gives a list of players he wants to Woodward. Then Woodward tries to buy them*. Mourinho has stated this multiple times in press conferences and interviews. There are no signings we have made since he became our manager that were not 'his signings'.

*Except for last summer, when Woodward apparently didn't like the players on the list.
So did Mourinho actively pitch Bailly and Lindelof, or were they suggested to him by the club, and he accepted them begrudgingly or otherwise? I'd be curious to know the answer to that given his treatment of the pair. Seems strange if they were players he actively wanted.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Well it depends. When lindelof was signed for example, it was a Mou signing. Performed at Portugal and used his influence etc. When he didn't perform however, he became 'one of the alternate options that the manager suggested'. Similar with bailly.

So I guess it all depends on the success of the player
:lol: I saw that. Great logic.
 

amolbhatia50k

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:D Yeah, I think that may be the case in quite posts.

I do wonder about Sanchez though.

I would love to see his target lists since he was appointed.
Willian
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Someone to replace Martial. Please.
 

68Guns

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Ok so Jose gives Woodward a list of players he would like us to buy, fair play.
But who decides how much we should pay for them? and does anyone ask Jose for the reasons WHY he wants said players. Does Jose provide Woodward with dvd footage of each player displaying their skills on the pitch against world class opposition as proof of their ability and skill factor to play for United? or does Woodward act like a puppet and do as he is told.
I mean WHO in their right mind would sanction and then sign a cheque for £30M+ to buy Lindeloff who isn't worth 30 smarties and a dead spider!
 
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rpitchfo

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Agents will also be approaching clubs letting them know their players are available. So its not just a case of jose writing a list and giving it to ED. It will also go the other way with ed giving jose a list of players he knows are available. Much easier than going after a number of players that you might end up wasting too much time on. Some of them i expect jose will not be too fussed about but we get anyway.
 

Don Alfredo

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Mino Raiola has been the most important person at Utd in terms of transfers in the last few years.
 

George The Best

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Possibly because he was paid, a reported £41m, to bring Pogba. Was Pogba really a Jose target at the prices? Or was this a commercial/self-elected DOF decision for business value.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Possibly because he was paid, a reported £41m, to bring Pogba. Was Pogba really a Jose target at the prices? Or was this a commercial/self-elected DOF decision for business value.
Jose wanted Pogba when he was at Chelsea.

He definitely wanted him.
 

endless_wheelies

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There was an Andy Mitten article that outlined it (in Captain Obvious terms), can't find it now unfortunately...

Basically exactly like Damien said with the "first, second, third etc" choice signings list for each position that Mourinho gives to Woodward.

Knowing Woodward however I wouldn't bet against him jumping straight to the fifth and cheapest choice, especially from the penny pinching Castles alluded to in https://www.acast.com/thetransferwindow

No doubt it's a far more complicated answer than your question though, with 50,000 meetings between scouting, Mourinho, Woodward and the Glazers with endless vetoes, internal negotiating and compromises along the way.

In theory though Woodward and the Glazers could cut Mourinho out of the whole thing like they did in keeping Martial, who knows.
 

fellaini's barber

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If they're shit they're a club signing, if they're good its a Jose signing. Fluctuates according to the players form. For example if we had bought Shaw under Jose then as at last season when he was trash he would have been a club signing dumped on Jose, but this season he'd have been a Jose signing.
 

pocco

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It's only rumours, but I saw a video with Stephen Howson and an author on United history who seemed to have decent connections (can't remember his name) but they talked as if they knew for certain that both Pogba and Sanchez were not asked for by Jose and were part of Woodward's Galactico scheme.
 

Rood

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transfers are one of the dark arts with all sorts of smoke, mirrors and shenanigans going on behind the scenes involving clubs, managers, agents (and other unoffical player representatives), scouts etc

It is a good question though about our club at the moment - it was well known that Fergie and Gill were more or less in control of all transfer business, but after that it all becomes a bit murky.
There were some stories about Moyes having a major influence in restructuring our whole scouting network and apparently he was very involved in selecting specific players. Probably work that started under Moyes lead to some of the players who were signed for LvG and in turn there were probably players that we started working on buying under LvG who arrived the first summer for Jose, but I would assume that Jose has picked most (if not all) of the players who arrived after that.

I have wondered about the decisions made this summer - it's generally accepted that Woodward is not much of a football man so I find it hard believe he is making any decisions about how much any player is worth, in which case he must be taking advice from someone else either within the club or from outside.
Lots of talk now about a DoF and perhaps someone in that kind of vein is already advising the club.
 
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Bastian

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Agents will also be approaching clubs letting them know their players are available. So its not just a case of jose writing a list and giving it to ED. It will also go the other way with ed giving jose a list of players he knows are available. Much easier than going after a number of players that you might end up wasting too much time on. Some of them i expect jose will not be too fussed about but we get anyway.
Yeah, I think you're right. It would be so interesting to know which players bought were on a list of top 3 players for a given position, and if so, where on that list.

It's only rumours, but I saw a video with Stephen Howson and an author on United history who seemed to have decent connections (can't remember his name) but they talked as if they knew for certain that both Pogba and Sanchez were not asked for by Jose and were part of Woodward's Galactico scheme.
That would be very interesting, if that were true. What I wonder about Pogba is would Jose have bought him if he was told he'd have 130m (before sales) to spend and Pogba would be 90m of that budget.

Like many posters here suggest, it's probably a lot more complex than the manager just saying who he wants. Even if I think Jose is the type of manager to not ask for someone he knows is unobtainable. Prices, agent connections, wages, age, etc. all probably comes into from a board perspective. I would really like some transparency about this.
 

SpyLuke10

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Jose gives Ed Woodward a list of what he wants and alternatives for the players he wants. Ed Woodward looks at the list, decides which ones he doesn't agree with the club going after (signing) and crosses those names off the list. He then goes after the remaining top targets, but if he can't get them for a reasonable price, then those targets get scratched off the list as well.

If every target for one position is taken off the list, apparently he just sits around and does nothing instead of suggesting some alternative players for that position which the club would be happy to sign to Jose and then going after these alternatives provided Jose agrees with signing any of these alternatives.

Or maybe he doesn't sit around doing nothing, maybe he's too busy having a chat with some wine company executive about getting another sponsor as if he has all the time in the world when theres actually only a few days left in the transfer window. Or perhaps he spent half the transfer period camping outside Gareth Bale's house in hope that he'd sign?
 

lawliet354

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Well it depends. When lindelof was signed for example, it was a Mou signing. Performed at Portugal and used his influence etc. When he didn't perform however, he became 'one of the alternate options that the manager suggested'. Similar with bailly.

So I guess it all depends on the success of the player
This is the perfect answer :lol:

I remember last year people said to be patience with Lindelof because one thing Jose has is his track record of signing quality defender. Now the agenda is Lindelof is the club signing because he's not Mourinho-type defender

:D Yeah, I think that may be the case in quite a few posts.

I do wonder about Sanchez though.

I would love to see his target lists since he was appointed.
IIRC people hail Woodward as a genius when he finished the the deal to swap United flop Mkhitaryan with Arsenal's best player Sanchez, looks like now people are calling him the root of the problem because he gave ludicrous contract for some finished player who is past his best
 
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Renegade

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Should make a thread “who coaches our team” I bet you’d still have people suggesting Woodward.

Imagine if Mourinho has full reign on our dealings ala SAF. We’d have no money. £180m for Perisic, Willian and Toby. Then £250m for their replacements 2 seasons later. Rinse & repeat.
 

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It seems to go this way :
Our scouts report to Jose and Jose gives the list of players He wants to Ed Woodward. Woodward then spends most of the transfer window hesitating whether He should sign the players. And when He finally decided, comes the negotiation part, during which He sends emails to the club's marketing department that goes straight to the Spam box because He uses too many emoticons, expecting a reply. If by some miracle the selling club read the mails, They would immediately reply, asking for much more than what Woodward offers. Woodward then tells Jose if the price isn't worth it, Jose is adamant that We need the player to be able to compete so They both play rock, paper and scissors. Last season, Jose won 2 out of 5. That's why We only signed Fred and Dalot (the keeper doesn't count).
 
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I could ask about this in another thread but I see so many conflicting posts and they might all just be opinions: about Mourinho not really signing player x or y, but that player x or y had been arranged by the club* and Mourinho may or may not have had a say. That some signings are definitely his and some are not.

This is not a Mourinho thread so keep your bile to yourself please. This is a thread on the structure of our recruitment process.

Does anyone actually know something about our signings post Fergie. Did Moyes ask for Fellaini and Mata? Did LVG ask for those 20 or however many players, specifically?

I'd rather know now then after he walks or is sacked. I was under the impression that Jose made all the specific calls, but I think LVG and Moyes maybe did not, in every instance. So I wonder if it's the same with Jose.

*by club, I'm not even sure what I mean, I don't know the process. If it's only Woodward and the manager at the time, or if there are other people involved.
a clown called Woodward
 

ErranMorad

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Whoever it is, he needs to be released of his duties. We let Jonny Evans go and have since signed 4 central defenders for a grand total of £90m, and all of them are worse than him. All four of them - Rojo, Blind, Bailly & Lindelof - plus the likes of McNair and Blakcett, who were given a chance in central defense, have been shockers. Evans had couple of brilliant seasons under Sir Alex and had better ball playing skills than all them barring Blind.

The same is with the attack where we let Zaha go for peanuts and loaned Nani, only for their replacement to perform worse.

A lot of money has been thrown own the toilet by us based on the preference of the managers. That's us why a TD/Dof is badly needed at this club along with a new manager.
 

fellaini's barber

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Beginning of last season when Jose was smugly talking about how he's ok with transfers despite getting 3 out the 4 targets on HIS list. All forgotten now
 

Micky Targaryen

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Should make a thread “who coaches our team” I bet you’d still have people suggesting Woodward.

Imagine if Mourinho has full reign on our dealings ala SAF. We’d have no money. £180m for Perisic, Willian and Toby. Then £250m for their replacements 2 seasons later. Rinse & repeat.
What a terrible post. So during SAF's "full reign", you think that Fergie negotiates the price of players too?
 

Massive Spanner

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Knowing Woodward however I wouldn't bet against him jumping straight to the fifth and cheapest choice, especially from the penny pinching Castles alluded to in https://www.acast.com/thetransferwindow
Ah yes, good old penny penching Ed. What's he ever done to suggest he's not going for the cheapest option? Well, aside from world record costing Pogba, but other than that, noth... well, there was PL record Di Maria, oh and then PL record striker Lukaku, oh and then Martial, the 2nd most expensive teenager ever, oh and I guess Shaw, the most expensive teenage defender ever, but like... apart from that .. oh well, Sanchez, he gave him the biggest PL contract ever. I guess we have also been the world's biggest spending non-oil club since he took over too, but OTHER THAN THAT DAMMIT, he's been a stingy mother f*cker!
 

fellaini's barber

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Who signed Dalot is yet to be determined I'm sure till we see how he does on his debut
 
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Kevin

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Jose wanted Pogba when he was at Chelsea.

He definitely wanted him.
Yeah, on the caf there are suddenly posts appearing that Mourinho never wanted Pogba. Part of the "blame it all on ed" revolution.

Also seen stuff floating around that Bailly and Lindelof were only 20-30 million signings so it was proof that Ed didn't sanction the 60 million ones he wanted and had to make do with second/third choices... so therefore he thwarted the Jose road to glory once more.

Now some are even rumoring that Sanchez was not his buy either. So yeah, basically it's all Ed who's been deciding on the flop signings since Mourinho took over.
 

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How many of the signings we made do you think the board forced on Mourinho? I mean he is not shy to speak his mind but I don't really recall him complaining about the players we actually signed.

Up to this summer we were fairly happy with the recruitment process but one bad summer and now its all down to the board and their meddling. Not defending Woodward/The Board and am sure we need a better structure (and if thats DOF so be it) but I think the timing of the window and looking to sign key players from Spurs or Leicester during a shortened window when both players had played late into the WC might not have been the ideal conditions to make those signings.

But ultimately I think the process prior to this window was collaborative.

Who signed Dalot is yet to be determined is yet to be determined I'm sure till we see how he does on his debut
Ok, Jimmy Two Times.
 

Renegade

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What a terrible post. So during SAF's "full reign", you think that Fergie negotiates the price of players too?
If the price wasn’t right or didn’t represent a good deal he’d walk away.

He didn’t always get it right.
 

Bastian

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How many of the signings we made do you think the board forced on Mourinho? I mean he is not shy to speak his mind but I don't really recall him complaining about the players we actually signed.

Up to this summer we were fairly happy with the recruitment process but one bad summer and now its all down to the board and their meddling. Not defending Woodward/The Board and am sure we need a better structure (and if thats DOF so be it) but I think the timing of the window and looking to sign key players from Spurs or Leicester during a shortened window when both players had played late into the WC might not have been the ideal conditions to make those signings.

But ultimately I think the process prior to this window was collaborative.


Ok, Jimmy Two Times.
It's reported that Spurs contact us over Alderweireld. Some reports say they wanted Mata or Martial. I don't think Toby was unobtainable in the summer at all. Mata + cash or straight cash deal. Would have improved us quite significantly.
 

GBBQ

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It's reported that Spurs contact us over Alderweireld. Some reports say they wanted Mata or Martial. I don't think Toby was unobtainable in the summer at all. Mata + cash or straight cash deal. Would have improved us quite significantly.
Agreed but I wouldn't discount that the amount of cash they wanted might not have been agreeable to United. Levy is notorious for getting the best deal and the fact they bought no one might suggest they were relying on a player swap deal because of the stadium issues.

Interesting to think if this was the reason they didn't move on Toby because it would allow Spurs to strengthen in other places.
 

SS

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If they're shit they're a club signing, if they're good its a Jose signing. Fluctuates according to the players form. For example if we had bought Shaw under Jose then as at last season when he was trash he would have been a club signing dumped on Jose, but this season he'd have been a Jose signing.
Basically.