Who has had the better international career? Messi or Ronaldo?

[11101]

As I said, twisting and turning. I see you're a Ronaldo fan and that's fair, no need to downgrade Messi's success to big up Ronaldo. And individually Ronaldo edges it. As for trophies its pretty similar.

That's the way these debates always go isn't it? I criticise Messi so i must be a Ronaldo fan. Never mind that Messi does have failures in his career that raise a question over his greatness.

I actually think Ronaldo, freak of nature that he is, will be quickly forgotten as one of the greats after he retires. Messi isn't the greatest because of what's already been covered in this thread, but he will always be in that conversation.

 

[MrEleson]

Messi easily, 1 Copa win, 1 Olympics, 3 Copa finals, 1 WC final.
Individually, 3 player of the tournament awards (including WC best player award) vs Ronaldo's "0".

Messi making 3 Copa finals is pretty redundant considering the tournament was hosted 4 times in the last 6 years. In fact, that record even works against him as it means he was presented numerous opportunities to win it in a small window of time playing for the 2nd best international side on the continent. Ronaldo only got 1 attempt at the euros again 5 years after the last one.

 

[Real Name]

That's the way these debates always go isn't it? I criticise Messi so i must be a Ronaldo fan. Never mind that Messi does have failures in his career that raise a question over his greatness.

I actually think Ronaldo, freak of nature that he is, will be quickly forgotten as one of the greats after he retires. Messi isn't the greatest because of what's already been covered in this thread, but he will always be in that conversation.

I never said he doesnt have failures. Sorry if I called you a Ronaldo fan if you're not one, either way it's childish from my part I admit.
It's just that you said he has been a miss on international stage which I dont agree with. Then you said this year copa is a joke and either way he never scored a goal in world cup knock out stages which is the only thing that counts.
So first its Copa which is a joke, than Copa in which he was bad in a final and scored in a quarter which was already over and finally Copa has lost prestige so doesnt even count.

As I said its a competition he can compete in and comparisons with Euros are a bit unfair in a sense he has won a international trophy and argument now is - oh its worse than Euros so it doesnt really count. Prestige or not some good teams still compete there and its not a level of San Marino or Gibraltar.

Also I keep seeing or reading how Argentina always had great teams during all the time Messi was playing which obviously isnt true. As @fps said both Portugal and Argentina had unbalanced teams and if you say Portugal wasnt a favorite in 2016 which they havent been you cant on the other hand say - oh Argentina had such a fabulous team every competition they were in.

 

[R'hllor]

Another thread where Ronaldo and Messi camp can have back in forth, dunno which group is more obnoxious.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Off course Messi, Cristiano depends on diving and penalties

Except the fact that Messi has scored more penalties goals for his country than Ronaldo.

 

[Revan]

Ronaldo. Portugal's one important trophy was won captained by him (and also the other trophy, but League Nations is not that important), and he was a starter in their other final. They also reached the semi-final in 2006 (he was an important player) and 2012 (he was their best player). Considering that it has been a country without much international success (and even qualification for most of their history was not regular), I would say it has been a very good international career. Add to that, he is the all-time leading goalscorer in international football.

Messi has had a decent career too. A lot of Copa America's when they finished second, a victory after almost three decades where Messi lead in all attacking stats that matter (something that Ronaldo never came close), and runners-up in World Cup where Messi was pretty good (though probably not the best). I would say in individual performance, Messi's 2014 is better than any World Cup of Ronaldo, and Messi's 2020 is better than any Euro of Ronaldo. However, considering the riches of Argentina, having only one trophy (and that one not being the World Cup) is a bit underwhelming.

I do not think that Ronaldo could have achieved more, but Argentina should have won another couple of Copas in Messi's time (he went 1 for 6 with what was always the best/second-best team in the competition) and a World Cup.

 

[duffer]

How long after these two retire will it take before their fanboys stop having these same old arguments? I'm guessing 20 years minimum.

 

[Idxomer]

World Cup final + Copa > Euro

 

[CoopersDream]

Both has been very good for the countries, obviously. I'd say there's not much in it, sure you could argue that Euro's are more difficuly than Copa's but I don't think that's fully fair as Messi cannot play in the Euro's. And while the Copa's has been played a lot recently, it's not like Messi has participated in twice as many Copa's as Ronaldo has Euro's, rather one more. They both have been somewhat dissapointing in the World Cup, although Messi managed to make it to a final. So let's give Ronaldo one more point for him winning the Euro's over Messi winning the Copa, but Messi gets the point back for making it to the final in the World Cup. It's a draw.

 

[RedRonaldo]

That's the way these debates always go isn't it? I criticise Messi so i must be a Ronaldo fan. Never mind that Messi does have failures in his career that raise a question over his greatness.

I actually think Ronaldo, freak of nature that he is, will be quickly forgotten as one of the greats after he retires. Messi isn't the greatest because of what's already been covered in this thread, but he will always be in that conversation.

I actually think he won’t. He has hold way too many all time records to be forgotten. Almost all big individual records are dominated by him, which would be brought up many times for years to come.

- most career goals
- most CL goals
- most international goals
- most Euro goals

These are the biggest, follow by another 100+ more individual records. No one in history come close.

 

[Sting]

How can Ronaldo claim the European Cup when he only played 20 mins of the most decisive game of the tournament which was the final? Messi has taken his country as deep as the World Cup final so I guess he should claim a World Cup as well?

 

[MrEleson]

World Cup final + Copa > Euro

What about Ronaldo making Euro final in 2004 being one of the stars of the tournament at 19?

 

[sun_tzu]

Ronaldo...
Though best club career and overall career is Messi

The point is it's easy for a player of his calibre to score against cannon fodder - Chile, Bolivia and Ecuador in this case. They very best players are judged on how they perform in the big games i.e the knockout stages.

hummm...cannon fodder you say

Ronaldo has scored a combined 17 goals against the current top 15 teams in the rankings — Belgium, France, Brazil, England, Spain, Italy, Argentina, Uruguay, Denmark, Mexico, Germany, Switzerland, Croatia, Colombia,

... three of which were penalties

Ronaldo has scored large chunks of goals against lower-ranked opposition, scoring a combined 42 goals against just eight lowly teams: Faroe Islands, Lithuania, Latvia, Andorra, Luxembourg, Hungary, Estonia, and Armenia.

All of those sides except Hungary are ranked outside the FIFA top 50, with five of the eight outside the top 100.

In total, Ronaldo has scored 32 of his 109 goals (32%) against teams outside the top 100 in the world rankings, 57 (52%) against teams outside the top 50, and 92 (84%) against teams outside the top 15 in the world.

I still think Ronaldo has had the better international career (messi the best overall)

But Ronaldo has also had his fair share of cannon fodder to score against (though you can only score against the team in front of you so I m not saying thts a bad thing... just that its easy for both players to score against lower ranked opposition) ... though for clarity

Of the 75 times Messi has scored in the blue and white of Argentina, 21 of them have come against teams in the top 15

... thats 28% his goals compared to 16% for Ronaldo ... though as I say I still think Ronaldo has had a better international career (even though only one of them has ever played in a final and won and its not Ronaldo)

The cannon fodder thing is clearly rubbish though

 

[Hound Dog]

When removing "you are either first or last" mentality so common on this forum, the fact remains that Messi has three runner-up medals, including a WC one. A WC in which he was the best player.

So it is confortably Messi for me.

 

[Camara]

Ronaldo

	Apps	Goals	Assists	Minutes	Goals per App	Minutes to Goal	Assists per App	Minutes to Assist	GA per App	Minutes to GA
Confed Cup	4​	2​	1​	390​	0,50​	195,00​	0,25​	390,00​	0,75​	130,00​
Euro Qualifier	35​	31​	3​	3030​	0,89​	97,74​	0,09​	1010,00​	0,97​	89,12​
Euro	25​	14​	6​	2154​	0,56​	153,86​	0,24​	359,00​	0,80​	107,70​
WC Qualifier	41​	31​	11​	3491​	0,76​	112,61​	0,27​	317,36​	1,02​	83,12​
WC	17​	7​	2​	1474​	0,41​	210,57​	0,12​	737,00​	0,53​	163,78​
Nations League	6​	5​	0​	531​	0,83​	106,20​	0,00​		0,83​	106,20​
Friendly	51​	19​	9​	3238​	0,37​	170,42​	0,18​	359,78​	0,55​	115,64​
Competitive	128​	90​	23​	11070​	0,70​	123,00​	0,18​	481,30​	0,88​	97,96​
Friendly	51​	19​	9​	3238​	0,37​	170,42​	0,18​	359,78​	0,55​	115,64​
Total	179​	109​	32​	14308​	0,61​	131,27​	0,18​	447,13​	0,79​	101,48​

Messi

	Apps	Goals	Assists	Minutes	Goals per App	Minutes to Goal	Assists per App	Minutes to Assist	GA per App	Minutes to GA
Copa America	34​	13​	17​	2905​	0,38​	223,46​	0,50​	170,88​	0,88​	96,83​
WC Qualifier	51​	23​	10​	4313​	0,45​	187,52​	0,20​	431,30​	0,65​	130,70​
WC	19​	6​	5​	1624​	0,32​	270,67​	0,26​	324,80​	0,58​	147,64​
Friendly	47​	34​	15​	3713​	0,72​	109,21​	0,32​	247,53​	1,04​	75,78​
Competitive	104​	42​	32​	8842​	0,40​	210,52​	0,31​	276,31​	0,71​	119,49​
Friendly	47​	34​	15​	3713​	0,72​	109,21​	0,32​	247,53​	1,04​	75,78​
Total	151​	76​	47​	12555​	0,50​	165,20​	0,31​	267,13​	0,81​	102,07​

 

[KirkDuyt]

Messi is definitely better in friendly matches, which means Messi is more friendly than Ronaldo. I knew it. Ronaldo's such a cnut.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

When removing "you are either first or last" mentality so common on this forum, the fact remains that Messi has three runner-up medals, including a WC one. A WC in which he was the best player. So it is confortably Messi for me.

I agree that Messi is comfortably the best runner-up.

 

[breath]

Except the fact that Messi has scored more penalties goals for his country than Ronaldo.

Sauce? I don't think so

 

[Camara]

Sauce? I don't think so

It's true, Messi scored 17 penalties and Ronaldo scored 14.
I can post the games where this happened later.
As another curiosity Messi scored 8 free kicks and Ronaldo scored 10.

 

[GatoLoco]

Both are great players

 

[RedRonaldo]

How can Ronaldo claim the European Cup when he only played 20 mins of the most decisive game of the tournament which was the final? Messi has taken his country as deep as the World Cup final so I guess he should claim a World Cup as well?

Funny though Messi has been largely invisible and has made 0 contribution, and also miss a sitter in the most decisive game of the tournament in Copa. If that’s your argument.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Sauce? I don't think so

“It doesn’t matter what you think!”
- The Rock

Jokingly asides, here’s their penalty stat for their country

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/detailed-stats/penalties/

Messi has scored 18 penalties for Argentina, Ronaldo has scored 14 for Portugal.

And over their career, Penaldo had scored 139 penalties, Messi has scored 100.

Of course Ronaldo only scored penalties whereas Messi only scored dribble goals.

Sorry to ruin your dream.


But but but… how about freekicks?

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/detailed-stats/free-kicks/

Messi has scored 8 for Argentina, Ronaldo has scored 10 for Portugal.

Sorry again. I know, truth hurts

 

[dinostar77]

Ronaldo easily. Messi needs to win the world cup with Argentina. As a nation they have won it twice before so the benchmark has beennset. Portugal never have so Ronaldo has done all he can realisitcally for Portugal by winning a Euros.

 

[Swoobs]

Equal number of continental cups but only 1 of the 2 had reached the final of the world cup. No brainer for me

 

[Gehrman]

How about fairly equal?

 

[Revan]

Equal number of continental cups but only 1 of the 2 had reached the final of the world cup. No brainer for me

One had Aguero, Tevez, Higuain, Di Maria in attack, the other had Nani, Simao, Pauleta and Gomez (in the last 5 years, they essentially played without striker cause they don’t have one).

One had Cambiasso, Riquelme, Veron, Banega in the midfield, the other had Carvajlo, Moutinho and Deco when he was not good.

I guess Portugal had a better defense, but overall, Messi had far better teammates for Argentina.

Argentina was always one of top 2 favorites for Copa and in top 5 or so for World Cup. They also had won 2 World Cups and a dozen Copas, but in 15 years of Messi played with them, they won only one Copa and no World Cup (arguably their worst ever spell). Portugal on the other hand were never one of the favorites for any trophy, they usually are not in top 10 and almost never in top 5 countries in FIFA rankings, and had never won anything or reached a final. Yet, they won the Euros with Ronaldo captaining them, reached another final with him and reached a World Cup semis (joined best record in their history). They had their best spell in the history with Ronaldo.

So Portugal overachieved with Ronaldo, while Argentina underachieved. Both kinda reached the same results, but one had a far better team. To be fair, a lot of Argentina’s failure was to their FA for choosing shit managers. They essentially did not have a manager worth it since Pekerman (and back then Messi was still a kid), but it is not that Portugal were much better at it.

 

[Stacks]

Probably Ronaldo.

Messi has underachieved somewhat.

Ronaldo has only made 2 major finals. Messi has loads and olympic gold. its clear

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Ronaldo has only made 2 major finals. Messi has loads and olympic gold. its clear

You actually counting Olympic football as a major event?

 

[PieCrust]

Pretty even on an individual level. But Argentina has underachieved while Portugal has over achieved, so probably folks will edge it out to Ronaldo.

 

[Camara]

Ronaldo has only made 2 major finals. Messi has loads and olympic gold. its clear

Messi has yet to score a goal in competitive matches vs Brazil or the major european nations (Germany, France, Spain, Italy (never played), Netherlands, England, Portugal).
Against Uruguay he did but only in WC qualifier matches, none in final stages.

 

[Daysleeper]

Ronaldo. Messi gets little credit for winning what's always been known as a second rate trophy especially after dishing up an absolute mess of a performance in the final.

and how were Ronaldo’s performance in the 3 NT finals? All worse than Messi’s

 

[KD6-3.7]

I think they are both pretty even. Messi at times though has literally carried Argentina, he’s underperformed at times but most of the time the entire attack outside of Messi never showed up.

Ronaldo is an interesting one especially when Portugal won the euros when he wasn’t even playing, I did find it funny when he was trying to ”coach” from the sidelines during that final. It felt like It was done entirely for the cameras.

 

[Daysleeper]

The point is it's easy for a player of his calibre to score against cannon fodder - Chile, Bolivia and Ecuador in this case. They very best players are judged on how they perform in the big games i.e the knockout stages.

same cannon fodder like chile that knocked out Portugal last time they faced? How about north Macedonia? There’s fodder in euros as well

 

[adexkola]

For all the fun I poke at the general idea of American ideas "ruining football", the stupid idea of "it's worse to lose finals you made it to than never make it to finals, and win the only one you made it to", is one we can blame us Yanks for.

 

[adexkola]

How can Ronaldo claim the European Cup when he only played 20 mins of the most decisive game of the tournament which was the final? Messi has taken his country as deep as the World Cup final so I guess he should claim a World Cup as well?

He inspired the team from the sideline.

 

[Daysleeper]

For all the fun I poke at the general idea of American ideas "ruining football", the stupid idea of "it's worse to lose finals you made it to than never make it to finals, and win the only one you made it to", is one we can blame is Yanks for.

exactly and people will cry and say it’s easy to make Copa finals when there have been a lot more upsets in the copa’s than the euros. Brazil and Uruguay had been disappointing this past decade for the most part in copas

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

How can Ronaldo claim the European Cup when he only played 20 mins of the most decisive game of the tournament which was the final? Messi has taken his country as deep as the World Cup final so I guess he should claim a World Cup as well?

Well, Ronaldo played in the games that led up to the finals. That kinda matters ya know. The difference between these two scenarios is that one country actually won the final but one didn't. If Messi was inspiring his team from the sidelines and they went on to win the WC he would have deservedly received credit as well. The main point here is that Ronaldo continued to inspire his team and push them even from the sidelines. Even though he wasn't physically out there his heart was.

 

[Spiersey]

Don't think goals scored is a fair comparison really. Portugal play much lower quality opposition for a large part of their games. Messi never gets to play against the likes of Andorra or San Marino etc. The worst team he gets to play against in Bolivia and the away game against them is one of the hardest in football. There isn't really any chance to stat pad in SA qualifiers. The quality of opposition on the whole is much higher in South America. Think Ronaldo has about 50 goals against teams seeded bottom 2 pots in qualifiers.

I'd probably give the edge to Messi. If Higuain wasn't a bottler he'd probably have a World Cup and another Copa on his CV.

 

[11101]

same cannon fodder like chile that knocked out Portugal last time they faced? How about north Macedonia? There’s fodder in euros as well

You can always find some whataboutism. Doesn't make it valid though, especially when the match in question was a penalty shootout in a glorified friendly.

Chile havent gotten past the World Cup last 16 in 60 years. It's 70 years since a Conmebol team other than Brazil or Argentina even made the final. In that time 10 European teams have done it. There really is no comparison between the two anymore.

 

[Daysleeper]

You can always find some whataboutism. Doesn't make it valid though, especially when the match in question was a penalty shootout in a glorified friendly.

Chile havent gotten past the World Cup last 16 in 60 years. It's 70 years since a Conmebol team other than Brazil or Argentina even made the final. In that time 10 European teams have done it. There really is no comparison between the two anymore.

and how far have Switzerland and Poland gotten in the World Cup? Or wales? Portugal had the easiest bracket of any euro winner of the last 25 years. It goes both ways no matter how much you’d like to pretend otherwise