absolute bs narrative, Portugal were jammy as hell if we are being honest.
Who has had the better international career? Messi or Ronaldo?
- Thread starter tentan
- Start date
Poor guy, had to play with Higuain. Imagine if he instead had to play with Pauleta, Gomez or Lord Eder.
Needs to be mentioned, that Messi has generally been disappointing in all his finals, and in one of them, lost the pen.
Agree about Ronaldo probably having worse teams to play against, but he also has played against much better teams than Messi. Also, I think that Ronaldo has done better in competitive matches, while Messi has done better in friendlies (hat trick against Brazil but cannot score against them in competitive matches). Both have not been that great in the tournaments (compared to their club form).
Ronaldo
Messi
| Game type | Apps | Goals | Assists | Minutes | Goals per App | Minutes to Goal | Assists per App | Minutes to Assist | GA per App | Minutes to GA | |
| Brazil | Competitive | 1 | 0 | 0 | 90 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Brazil | Friendly | 2 | 0 | 0 | 153 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Argentina | Competitive | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Argentina | Friendly | 2 | 1 | 0 | 105 | 0,50 | 105,00 | 0,00 | 0,50 | 105,00 | |
| Uruguay | Competitive | 1 | 0 | 0 | 90 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Uruguay | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Chile | Competitive | 1 | 0 | 0 | 120 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Chile | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Colombia | Competitive | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Colombia | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Germany | Competitive | 5 | 1 | 1 | 450 | 0,20 | 450,00 | 0,20 | 450,00 | 0,40 | 225,00 |
| Germany | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| France | Competitive | 5 | 2 | 0 | 385 | 0,40 | 192,50 | 0,00 | 0,40 | 192,50 | |
| France | Friendly | 2 | 0 | 0 | 144 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Italy | Competitive | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Italy | Friendly | 2 | 0 | 0 | 135 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Spain | Competitive | 4 | 3 | 0 | 385 | 0,75 | 128,33 | 0,00 | 0,75 | 128,33 | |
| Spain | Friendly | 3 | 0 | 0 | 208 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| England | Competitive | 2 | 0 | 0 | 240 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| England | Friendly | 1 | 0 | 0 | 45 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Netherlands | Competitive | 4 | 3 | 1 | 281 | 0,75 | 93,67 | 0,25 | 281,00 | 1,00 | 70,25 |
| Netherlands | Friendly | 2 | 1 | 0 | 158 | 0,50 | 158,00 | 0,00 | 0,50 | 158,00 | |
| Croatia | Competitive | 2 | 0 | 0 | 210 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Croatia | Friendly | 2 | 1 | 1 | 121 | 0,50 | 121,00 | 0,50 | 121,00 | 1,00 | 60,50 |
| Portugal | Competitive | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Portugal | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Belgium | Competitive | 2 | 2 | 1 | 168 | 1,00 | 84,00 | 0,50 | 168,00 | 1,50 | 56,00 |
| Belgium | Friendly | 1 | 1 | 0 | 61 | 1,00 | 61,00 | 0,00 | 1,00 | 61,00 |
Messi
| Game type | Apps | Goals | Assists | Minutes | Goals per App | Minutes to Goal | Assists per App | Minutes to Assist | GA per App | Minutes to GA | |
| Brazil | Competitive | 6 | 0 | 0 | 540 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Brazil | Friendly | 6 | 5 | 0 | 540 | 0,83 | 108,00 | 0,00 | 0,83 | 108,00 | |
| Argentina | Competitive | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Argentina | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Uruguay | Competitive | 9 | 4 | 2 | 768 | 0,44 | 192,00 | 0,22 | 384,00 | 0,67 | 128,00 |
| Uruguay | Friendly | 1 | 1 | 1 | 90 | 1,00 | 90,00 | 1,00 | 90,00 | 2,00 | 45,00 |
| Chile | Competitive | 11 | 5 | 2 | 991 | 0,45 | 198,20 | 0,18 | 495,50 | 0,64 | 141,57 |
| Chile | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Colombia | Competitive | 11 | 3 | 3 | 923 | 0,27 | 307,67 | 0,27 | 307,67 | 0,55 | 153,83 |
| Colombia | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Germany | Competitive | 2 | 0 | 0 | 210 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Germany | Friendly | 2 | 1 | 0 | 180 | 0,50 | 180,00 | 0,00 | 0,50 | 180,00 | |
| France | Competitive | 1 | 0 | 2 | 90 | 0,00 | 2,00 | 45,00 | 2,00 | 45,00 | |
| France | Friendly | 1 | 1 | 0 | 90 | 1,00 | 90,00 | 0,00 | 1,00 | 90,00 | |
| Italy | Competitive | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Italy | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Spain | Competitive | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Spain | Friendly | 3 | 2 | 0 | 254 | 0,67 | 127,00 | 0,00 | 0,67 | 127,00 | |
| England | Competitive | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| England | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Netherlands | Competitive | 2 | 0 | 0 | 189 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Netherlands | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Croatia | Competitive | 1 | 0 | 0 | 90 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Croatia | Friendly | 2 | 2 | 2 | 180 | 1,00 | 90,00 | 1,00 | 90,00 | 2,00 | 45,00 |
| Portugal | Competitive | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||
| Portugal | Friendly | 2 | 1 | 1 | 135 | 0,50 | 135,00 | 0,50 | 135,00 | 1,00 | 67,50 |
| Belgium | Competitive | 1 | 0 | 0 | 90 | 0,00 | 0,00 | 0,00 | |||
| Belgium | Friendly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Portugal had an easy road, agree. It was still more difficult than Argentina’s this year though.
difference is Eder actually scored. Portugal only won one match in 90 minutes during their run, Ronaldo had also been horrible in NT finals, much worse than Messi. Messi’s 2016 and 2014 final is comfortably better than any Ronaldo NT finals performance.
Or Croatia? Or France? Or England? Or The Netherlands? You can't just pick and choose which countries to mention!
If you put Chile and Colombia, you need to put the European equivalents: Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark and so on.
Wouldn’t go that far at all, injured wales in semi finals, mediocre Switzerland and Poland side and a very fortunate win again France (although Argentina were fortunate against Brazil I agree)
I think Portugal were much luckier and less deserved in 2016 than Argentina in 2021
I'm never sure whether people are serious about Ronaldo inspiring his team to win from the sidelines or not.
Higuain also scored many goals. Argentina do not pass the group stage in 2010 if it wasn’t for Higuain.
You know that continuing the debate is pointless when people create a parallel universe where having Higuain and Aguero as your teammates is worse than Eder and Nuno Gomez/Pauleta.
Portugal avoided all those teams. For all the big ups you want to give Portugal for winning euro it doesn’t mean as much when you avoid everyone and get the flukiest win against France of any NT winning team in a final. I totally agree euros can be harder than copa america but Portugal in 2016 did not prove that at all.
and England haven’t done zilch since ‘66 outside of also getting an extremely easy bracket in 2018 and Netherlands always a bridesmaid team
its the single funniest narrative in all of football
Much luckier, I agree. France should have won the match.
However, France are better than all South American teams combined. Switzerland, Wales, Croatia, Poland are all in the same level as Uruguay or Chile. Actually, Croatia is better than any South American team. Messi might know that from a few years back
sure, but let’s not discount it was Portugal’s defense that was the unsung hero of 2016. Ronaldo even admits Pepe was their best player and Griezmann also got player of the tourney. Portugal’s back line carried them in the knockouts where they often had to go to ET and barely beat anyone within 90 minutes much like Argentina’s back line was immense in 2014 in the knockouts.
people acting like Ronaldo played with nothing but bums on Portugal is hilarious. Compare Portugal’s record when Ronaldo didn’t play the last 8 years compared to Argentina in the last 8 years without Messi and it’s night and day.
I would too but last time people complained why I was including so many european teams and so few south american :P
I will include more and post
wrong on all those accounts. Argentina were bad in 2018 but Argentina 2016 >>>> Croatia 2016Much luckier, I agree. France should have won the match.
However, France are better than all South American teams combined. Switzerland, Wales, Croatia, Poland are all in the same level as Uruguay or Chile. Actually, Croatia is better than any South American team. Messi might know that from a few years back
man’s Uruguay and chile both knocked out Portugal the last time they okayed. Ronaldo actually had a pretty miserable record against South American teams. And chile Of 2015-16 are much better than Croatia, Poland or Switzerland of that era. No question.
That Euro 2016 France team wasn't. Look who was in that starting XI - Laurent fecking Koscielny and Bacary Sagna. That's an underwhelming French defence even if they were 6 years youngerMuch luckier, I agree. France should have won the match.
However, France are better than all South American teams combined. Switzerland, Wales, Croatia, Poland are all in the same level as Uruguay or Chile. Actually, Croatia is better than any South American team. Messi might know that from a few years back
I would say that Ronaldo, Nani and Pepe were pretty much equally good in that Euros. Pepe was immense in defense, but Ronaldo almost single handed passed them in KO stage, and then was involved in every goal they scored till the final when he got injured.
About your last point, I kind of agree. Though to be fair, I think that because of Messi (who has to be accommodated), the play of other superstars get worse. Of Messi was a bit more flexible, Aguero, Higuain and co would have done better. While Ronaldo in general seems to be fine playing with everyone.
He was remote controlling them
Croatia in 2016 and in 2018 was virtually the same team.
What?
Argentina in WC 2018 faced 3 teams Portugal had in Euro 2016: Iceland, Croatia and France. And Argentina didn't win any of those games.
And that super Chile that eliminated Portugal in the semis lost the Confederations Cup final to the literal subs of Germany
Ronaldo being bad vs South American teams is an interesting take since he had so many games vs them: 3 competitive games (1 vs Brazil, 1 vs Chile and 1 vs Uruguay) and 5 friendlies (2 vs Brazil, 2 vs Argentina (1 goal), 1 vs Ecuador (1 goal)).
What a sample!
Also that Croatia was finalist of WC 2018, as well as France. Basically the final of WC 2018 was basically 2 teams Portugal had to eliminate in Euro 2016
It was still a great team that scored 13 goals till final, and easily eliminated the world champions (the same team who murdered Brazil two years later). They also had the most in-form player in the world.
South American countries have been a non-factor in World Cup for a long time. Almost every time they face a decent European country, they go out. Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay have been roughly in the same level as second tier European countries for most part of this century. In Europe, every country can play, and almost always when they face American teams, the European teams win.
Is another Messi vs Ronaldo thread really necessary? We already have enough of these threads polluting the cafe anyway.
I thought we would be celebrating signing Varane, this week.
I thought we would be celebrating signing Varane, this week.
I usually don't argue with Messi fan boys or people who start their sentences with lowercase letters. You're obviously incapable of having an unbiased opinion so there's absolutely no point in having any type of "narrative" with you. You support Barcelona. Enough said.
Messi easily. Only arguments Ronaldo fans have is his record in finals. At least he reached the final in the first place.
3 Copa Runner up
1 world cup Runner up
1 Copa win
Is better than
1 Euro runner up
1 Euro win.
He's also won more player of the tournaments than Ronaldo.
3 Copa Runner up
1 world cup Runner up
1 Copa win
Is better than
1 Euro runner up
1 Euro win.
He's also won more player of the tournaments than Ronaldo.
Messi was good in the 2014 WC, but honest didnt deserve to be named player of the tournament.
Cristiano did better I think.
Argentina have underachieved in the last 20 years, whereas Portugal have massively overacheived.
Argentina have underachieved in the last 20 years, whereas Portugal have massively overacheived.
unfortunately for underage CR sofascore neverwatchfootball brigade, it doesn't really work like that. Portugal have excellent team + Ronaldo and they're expected do win things now regardless of where they were 30, 50 or 100 years ago and the same goes for every top 5 team. you aren't a football minnow when you're ranked 4th on official FIFA rankings and the usual mental gymnastics from CR fanboys won't change that.
yep, it's crazy how some are almost offended when you mention this. ironically, the same people are criticizing the level of South American teams. for example, Portugal scored more than 3 goals per game (!) in their qualifying group and that was during the period when CR fans used to label their football as defensive and tumescent. when you're drawn with Andora, F. Islands and Latvia, that's 6 training games. Switzerland's group record was 9-0-1, quite telling.
He absolutely didn’t. Had no goals and one assist in KO stage, and was a non-entity in the final.
Most goals Scored (for his team) 3rd in the tournament
Most goal involvements (for his team) 2nd in the tournament
Most key passes in the tournament
Most chances created in the tournament
Most successful Dribbles in the tournament
Most Fouled in the tournament
Most MOTM in the tournament
Highest Rated Player in the tournament
But yeah he didn't deserve it I guess.
Last edited:
James and Muller scored more so you got your stats wrong there. I said he was good just not the best. I thought both James and Robben were better in that WC.
We need to analyse in detail if winning the Copa and the Euro is roughly equal or if one is better than the other.
“Start sentences with lower case letters”
keep drinking the Ronaldo kool aid. He’s a phenomenal player, but building up him being a cheerleader on the sideline is a bit cringey.as someone else has shared:
Most goals Scored (for his team) 3rd in the tournament
Most goal involvements (for his team) 2nd in the tournament
Most key passes in the tournament
Most chances created in the tournament
Most successful Dribbles in the tournament
Most Fouled in the tournament
Most MOTM in the tournament
Highest Rated Player in the tournament
Chile still beat Portugal the same way Chile beat Argentina twice. And a lot can change in football in two years. Argentina was significantly worse in 2018 while Croatia was MUCH better than 2016.What?
Argentina in WC 2018 faced 3 teams Portugal had in Euro 2016: Iceland, Croatia and France. And Argentina didn't win any of those games.
And that super Chile that eliminated Portugal in the semis lost the Confederations Cup final to the literal subs of Germany
Ronaldo being bad vs South American teams is an interesting take since he had so many games vs them: 3 competitive games (1 vs Brazil, 1 vs Chile and 1 vs Uruguay) and 5 friendlies (2 vs Brazil, 2 vs Argentina (1 goal), 1 vs Ecuador (1 goal)).
What a sample!
Also that Croatia was finalist of WC 2018, as well as France. Basically the final of WC 2018 was basically 2 teams Portugal had to eliminate in Euro 2016
Ronaldo has a poor W-L against South American teams and has been getting knocked out by them in recent years.
Portugal was comfortably the jammiest NT winner of the last 25 years, more so than 2004 Greece. That bracket was a joke in fairness
A lot of that was vs Iran, Bosnia and Nigeria.
Ronaldo doesn't drink Kool-Aid or any other processed drinks.“Start sentences with lower case letters”
I don't have to shed any negative light on Messi to justify that Ronaldo is a better player. You and all the Braca boys think that they have to throw shade on Ronaldo to hype Messi up. You don't need to do that. You don't see me calling Messi a midget or a shit penalty taker. I won't because it's not necessary. They're both GOATs in their own sense so let's just appreciate them both and not have these senseless arguments.
Fun Fact: I'm originally from the country where Jonestown happened. I know all about the Kool-Aid. I even visited the site where it all went down.
What has the way Chile beat Portugal anything to do with my argument? I was showing it lost to the subs of Germany.
Sure, of course things can change.
But that Croatia was absolutely very good already, they got Portugal (3rd place team) because they won their group, beating Spain to get it. Then they faced the eventual champion in the first knockout round.
In the recent years Portugal played south american teams 2 times in official games. That's your entire sample.
Portugal had an easier Euro than usual in theory but Portugal had to eliminate Croatia and France, as well as other medium quality teams that are as strong as most south american teams.
I had no idea that Kool-aid was a reference to mass suicide.