Who is our third best player?

Rozay

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I disagree about McTominay and his inconsistency. I think he is as consistent as anyone in the squad.

Fred starting as the sole CM over McTominay is one of the few things that I tear my hair out about Ole. McTominay should start every game he is fit enough to, whether that be with Fred or as the sole deep(er) lying midfielder. He has constantly shown that he is a bigger threat than Fred all over the pitch
Again, this is not how football works. I've seen similar inferences in this thread regarding Pogba and Bruno too with things like 'how can you compare x who gets this many goals and assists to y?'. Not everyone is in the team for the same purpose. Fred is simply a better defensive midfielder than Scott, and perhaps that is what is valued more at the time. It's not always about who provides the bigger threat.

But footy is about opinions, I don't agree that McTominay is amongst our most consistent players. He's probably amongst the most loved though, which is why a recent spell of good form has stuck - but he's up and down in my view.

To be fair to players like Bruno and Rashford - I think consistency is probably harder in their roles than it is for a full-back for example. But it's tricky to equate goals with consistency. Rashford has our second highest numbers but to say he is a consistent performer would be a stretch. He's more likely to score a goal than he is to have a 'good game' - although maybe scoring a goal means he had a good game?
 

bosnian_red

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Again, this is not how football works. I've seen similar inferences in this thread regarding Pogba and Bruno too with things like 'how can you compare x who gets this many goals and assists to y?'. Not everyone is in the team for the same purpose. Fred is simply a better defensive midfielder than Scott, and perhaps that is what is valued more at the time. It's not always about who provides the bigger threat.

But footy is about opinions, I don't agree that McTominay is amongst our most consistent players. He's probably amongst the most loved though, which is why a recent spell of good form has stuck - but he's up and down in my view.

To be fair to players like Bruno and Rashford - I think consistency is probably harder in their roles than it is for a full-back for example. But it's tricky to equate goals with consistency. Rashford has our second highest numbers but to say he is a consistent performer would be a stretch. He's more likely to score a goal than he is to have a 'good game' - although maybe scoring a goal means he had a good game?
Agreed. Someone like Fred, not that I'm a huge fan really, but is positionally and structurally a lot more sound. McTominay is a pure box to box and can be everywhere, but he can't be a defensive mid next to Pogba if we were to go down that route. Fred can't either really, but he can do it far better than McTominay cann just due to their play styles.
 

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You can make this argument about every team in history. Most goals are due to some player losing concentration rather than spectacular technique but its a bit weak if every team says "we are actually great and have great players individually but the only reason we aren't winning the treble is that sometimes our players make mistakes"
 

SadlerMUFC

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You can make this argument about every team in history. Most goals are due to some player losing concentration rather than spectacular technique but its a bit weak if every team says "we are actually great and have great players individually but the only reason we aren't winning the treble is that sometimes our players make mistakes"
In a tournament format "form" is the most important aspect of being successful. Mistakes are punished more than they are in a league season. We messed up against Istanbul and should have at least got a point our of Leipzig. We didn't and we are out. That doesn't chance the fact that we have some fantastic players at our club who are world class
 

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In a tournament format "form" is the most important aspect of being successful. Mistakes are punished more than they are in a league season. We messed up against Istanbul and should have at least got a point our of Leipzig. We didn't and we are out. That doesn't chance the fact that we have some fantastic players at our club who are world class
What's the evidence of our players being fantastic and world class? Some of those players aren't even regarded the best in their nationality. We are a team who can get 65-70 pts in a league season which isn't fantastic so its not just about tournament success. You have massacred the terminology, if you use for world class for many of our players.
 

SadlerMUFC

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What's the evidence of our players being fantastic and world class? Some of those players aren't even regarded the best in their nationality. We are a team who can get 65-70 pts in a league season which isn't fantastic so its not just about tournament success. You have massacred the terminology, if you use for world class for many of our players.
Whatever your definition of "world class" is, if you don't think some of our players are elite players then I don't really know what else to say and don't want to feed your agenda any further
 

Stacks

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Whatever your definition of "world class" is, if you don't think some of our players are elite players then I don't really know what else to say and don't want to feed your agenda any further
agenda? So if one doesn't feel a player is elite then you have an agenda? is it either "elite" or "trash in your book?" why can't they just be good or very good? We don't actually have worldies in our first team as none have performed at world level across the board. Bruno was decent ish in CL but wasn't fantastic. Same for the rest. Performing well in patches in the premier league doesn't make you world class otherwise every good player in every league is world class. The term has to stand for something exceptional.
 

SadlerMUFC

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agenda? So if one doesn't feel a player is elite then you have an agenda? is it either "elite" or "trash in your book?" why can't they just be good or very good? We don't actually have worldies in our first team as none have performed at world level across the board. Bruno was decent ish in CL but wasn't fantastic. Same for the rest. Performing well in patches in the premier league doesn't make you world class otherwise every good player in every league is world class. The term has to stand for something exceptional.
I just don't understand why a United supporter would be so desperate to trash the team he says he supports. I also don't know how anyone who follows football can say that Bruno, Rashford, Maguire, Pogba and Shaw aren't top top players. The only thing I can think is that they must have an agenda against some of those players because there is no other logical explanation...
 

AjaxCunian

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It is very difficult to compare these players that play across different positions. When we would compare them relative to other players in their positions, maybe we can make a case. Shaw and Bruno have been the very best in their positions if you ask me, Rashford/Pogba, not so much. Rashford had a great start, but has had way more poor performances than Maguire has, and is less realible than Maguire. I would give it to Harry, he is vital for our defence, for our build-up, has had a handful of poor matches but is consistently good, and it goes unnoticed by everyone. A fit and flying Pogba would have made 3rd I'd say, but we rarely get that over a long period of the season.
 

Tallis

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I think you have to say Macguire. If he wasn’t in the team, I suspect we do a lot worse. I think we can just about cope with missing Shaw / AWB/ Fred - we would be a worse team without these guys but won’t fall apart like we would if there wasn’t any Harry.
 

Andersons Dietician

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It's funny the way so many United fans are willing to forget large chunks of the season, and last, for Shaw.

I don't get it. The Spurs game was this season. His first assist came in like what, December? 0 assists last season. This guys our second best player?

Over Rashford who has 18 goals and 10 assists?

Insane.
Because assists and goals are only a small fragment of football. Someone could have 20+ tap ins on the line, because they’ve scored 20 goals does that make them the best player in the team? Football is more than just assists and goals and people need to remember this.
 

Polar

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Rated by potential (rated by standard today)
  1. Rashford (2)
  2. Pogba (3)
  3. Greenwood (11)
  4. Bruno (1)
  5. Shaw (4)
  6. AWB (6)
  7. Henderson (12)
  8. Martial (13)
  9. Bailly (9)
  10. Maquire (5)
  11. McT (7)
  12. Tuanzebe (14)
  13. Fred (8)
  14. Lindelof (10)
  15. James (15)
Did not rate DDG, Cavani and DVB because I’m not sure where to place them.
 
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jem

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I just don't understand why a United supporter would be so desperate to trash the team he says he supports. I also don't know how anyone who follows football can say that Bruno, Rashford, Maguire, Pogba and Shaw aren't top top players. The only thing I can think is that they must have an agenda against some of those players because there is no other logical explanation...
Well I have yet to see much from Maguire (other than his incredible consistency in staying healthy - no small thing) that suggests he is a 'top, top' player.
 

jem

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With regard to the original post, I think there can be little doubt Shaw and Bruno are our two best players this season. I actually think Shaw has been the best, but Bruno is the most irreplaceable.
 

Stacks

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I just don't understand why a United supporter would be so desperate to trash the team he says he supports. I also don't know how anyone who follows football can say that Bruno, Rashford, Maguire, Pogba and Shaw aren't top top players. The only thing I can think is that they must have an agenda against some of those players because there is no other logical explanation...
where have I trashed any players? tell me ONE THING I said that equals trashing some? what does trashing even mean to you? And most people who actually follow football don't regard all of those names top top players. I would say very few people the world over bar maybe Bruno based off what he is doing in terms of goal contributions. Your logic is unless I rate some one as a top top player i.e. a 9 out of ten then I have an agenda. Do you know what agenda means? If I don't think Kylie Jenner is a worldie then I have an agenda against her. nice logic
 

SadlerMUFC

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where have I trashed any players? tell me ONE THING I said that equals trashing some? what does trashing even mean to you? And most people who actually follow football don't regard all of those names top top players. I would say very few people the world over bar maybe Bruno based off what he is doing in terms of goal contributions. Your logic is unless I rate some one as a top top player i.e. a 9 out of ten then I have an agenda. Do you know what agenda means? If I don't think Kylie Jenner is a worldie then I have an agenda against her. nice logic
You are going out of your way to talk our best players down. But no, you aren't trashing them. Give your head a shake...
 

Stacks

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You are going out of your way to talk our best players down. But no, you aren't trashing them. Give your head a shake...
I have talked them down from being excellent to good or very good which is a fair appraisal. None of these players are regarded the best in Europe right now or will get any votes for world player of the year (bar Bruno) and they won't make no UEFA or Fifpro world 11 so I think I am being reasonable to be honest
 

SadlerMUFC

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I have talked them down from being excellent to good or very good which is a fair appraisal. None of these players are regarded the best in Europe right now or will get any votes for world player of the year (bar Bruno) and they won't make no UEFA or Fifpro world 11 so I think I am being reasonable to be honest
If you don't think Pogba, Bruno, Maguire, Rashford and Shaw are top players, then perhaps football just isn't for you
 

Brightonian

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I have talked them down from being excellent to good or very good which is a fair appraisal. None of these players are regarded the best in Europe right now or will get any votes for world player of the year (bar Bruno) and they won't make no UEFA or Fifpro world 11 so I think I am being reasonable to be honest
Rashford has the fifth most club goals+assists in Europe, only behind Lewandowski, Kane, Bruno and Haaland. If you remove penalties scored from the equation (7, 5, 10, 2 respectively and 1 for Rashford), that leaves him equal third with Haaland, both on 26, behind Lewa and Kane both on 29. He is doing all this while carrying injuries and somewhat out of form.

He is world class. He is one of the best in Europe. It's right there in the numbers.
 

Stacks

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Rashford has the fifth most club goals+assists in Europe, only behind Lewandowski, Kane, Bruno and Haaland. If you remove penalties scored from the equation (7, 5, 10, 2 respectively and 1 for Rashford), that leaves him equal third with Haaland, both on 26, behind Lewa and Kane both on 29. He is doing all this while carrying injuries and somewhat out of form.

He is world class. He is one of the best in Europe. It's right there in the numbers.
Firstly why remove pens? did you remove pens from Rashford total last season? Bro football is more than numbers man. His productivity is up there with the best in Europe this year yes. He is not world class. far from it. Pedro used to have seasons with 40 G + A and he wasn't world class either. Jamie Vardy scores loads most seasons and he ain't world class. Insigne ain't world class. Lukaku ain't world class. Too many major flaws in Rashford game to be world class. There is a chance he might not even have a starting place with England this Summer. The ONLY England player bordering WC is Kane.
 

jem

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Don't let the idiots who scapegoat him fool you. He's a top top player
I'm going by what I've seen in the matches I've watched. He's had a handful of excellent performances (particularly when paired with Bailly), but he's also had a number of ridiculous feck-ups, for which he can blame no one but himself (the absolute gong-show against Spurs springs to mind as does his moment of madness in the dying moments of the Everton game.)
 

SadlerMUFC

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I'm going by what I've seen in the matches I've watched. He's had a handful of excellent performances (particularly when paired with Bailly), but he's also had a number of ridiculous feck-ups, for which he can blame no one but himself (the absolute gong-show against Spurs springs to mind as does his moment of madness in the dying moments of the Everton game.)
Wow, can you quote Goldbridge some more? How about coming up with a thought of your own. Just like him, you are scapegoating him. Sure, the Tottenham game was a gong show by everyone (he was paired with Bailly) but this whole ideal that "he plays better with Bailly" isn't actually true. I like the idea of him playing with Bailly, but in all our "big 6 matches" that we allowed a total of 1 goal against, who was his partner? Bailly or Lindelof? I know, I know, this is the part where you truly embrace your inner Goldbridge and say "yeah, but we have two DM's to protect them" as you think you're coming up with that all on your own. It's called a 4-2-3-1. It's the formation we play. Do you want Bruno to start? Then he plays in the #10. That means guess what? Two players behind him. But go on...claim to not follow Goldbridge. That would be funny...
 

jem

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Wow, can you quote Goldbridge some more? How about coming up with a thought of your own. Just like him, you are scapegoating him. Sure, the Tottenham game was a gong show by everyone (he was paired with Bailly) but this whole ideal that "he plays better with Bailly" isn't actually true. I like the idea of him playing with Bailly, but in all our "big 6 matches" that we allowed a total of 1 goal against, who was his partner? Bailly or Lindelof? I know, I know, this is the part where you truly embrace your inner Goldbridge and say "yeah, but we have two DM's to protect them" as you think you're coming up with that all on your own. It's called a 4-2-3-1. It's the formation we play. Do you want Bruno to start? Then he plays in the #10. That means guess what? Two players behind him. But go on...claim to not follow Goldbridge. That would be funny...
Wow you really got upset there :lol: I don’t need anybody to tell me what is patently obvious: Maguire is a fairly good CB for whom we grossly overpaid. There is nothing about him that makes him a top, top CB. You need to grow up.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Wow you really got upset there :lol: I don’t need anybody to tell me what is patently obvious: Maguire is a fairly good CB for whom we grossly overpaid. There is nothing about him that makes him a top, top CB. You need to grow up.
Come back at me when you have a thought of your own and you're not just repeating whatever the latest YouTube sensation says
 

Siezard

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I think Luke Shaw is 3rd given he has won some MotM and that's assuming you put Bruno and Rashford in front of him.
 

jem

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Come back at me when you have a thought of your own and you're not just repeating whatever the latest YouTube sensation says
Your posts are becoming increasingly unhinged. It’s delightful (and a bit pathetic and sad) to see! :lol:
 

SadlerMUFC

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Keep telling yourself that ;)
Or perhaps this is you coming to the realization that you've been brainwashed. You see, I notice you haven't denied any of this so I'm assuming I hit the nail on the head. That's what Goldbridge does. He moans about people with agendas but then gives his opinions and facts and says them over and over and over again until his agenda is firmly planted into the heads of weak minded people like yourself. Next thing you know, you're making a post saying the exact same crap that he says and you actually think you are coming up with a thought of your own. Got news for you. You're not. So like I said, come back at me when you have a thought of your own...
 

jem

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Or perhaps this is you coming to the realization that you've been brainwashed. You see, I notice you haven't denied any of this so I'm assuming I hit the nail on the head. That's what Goldbridge does. He moans about people with agendas but then gives his opinions and facts and says them over and over and over again until his agenda is firmly planted into the heads of weak minded people like yourself. Next thing you know, you're making a post saying the exact same crap that he says and you actually think you are coming up with a thought of your own. Got news for you. You're not. So like I said, come back at me when you have a thought of your own...
It is quite amusing to see you come apart at the seams like this! You seem to have a strange, disturbing obsession with Goldbridge - did he disagree with one of your superchats? Sorry if that happened to you, as I can imagine that would be quite crushing for someone so obviously in need of approval. I can just picture a frustrated, enraged SadlerMUFC sitting in a darkened room late at night, furiously muttering the words 'agenda' and 'scapegoat'...

As for Maguire, I've already told you that I think he's way too prone to making a moronic mistake, whether it be tackling Luke Shaw against Spurs, needlessly backpassing Henderson into trouble against Sheffield United, getting caught in a weird no-man's land against Everton (a weirdly impotent waving of his hand for offside while playing everyone on - kind of the defending equivalent of your posts in this thread), misplacing header after header (despite arriving with a reputation for scoring headed goals), getting dispossessed way too easily and having to be bailed out by De Gea (can't remember the opposition), missing an open goal yesterday, etc....I've been more than happy to give him credit when he's played well - if you need proof, you can search my posts in his Player Performance thread - a thread I imagine you have practically memorized by this point!

Anyway, in the spirit of national collegiality and kinship, let me tell you that I also don't agree with a lot of what Goldbridge say (I much prefer tuning in to Flex and KG after the match.) Stay safe SadlerMUFC, stay well!
 

SadlerMUFC

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It is quite amusing to see you come apart at the seams like this! You seem to have a strange, disturbing obsession with Goldbridge - did he disagree with one of your superchats? Sorry if that happened to you, as I can imagine that would be quite crushing for someone so obviously in need of approval. I can just picture a frustrated, enraged SadlerMUFC sitting in a darkened room late at night, furiously muttering the words 'agenda' and 'scapegoat'...

As for Maguire, I've already told you that I think he's way too prone to making a moronic mistake, whether it be tackling Luke Shaw against Spurs, needlessly backpassing Henderson into trouble against Sheffield United, getting caught in a weird no-man's land against Everton (a weirdly impotent waving of his hand for offside while playing everyone on - kind of the defending equivalent of your posts in this thread), misplacing header after header (despite arriving with a reputation for scoring headed goals), getting dispossessed way too easily and having to be bailed out by De Gea (can't remember the opposition), missing an open goal yesterday, etc....I've been more than happy to give him credit when he's played well - if you need proof, you can search my posts in his Player Performance thread - a thread I imagine you have practically memorized by this point!

Anyway, in the spirit of national collegiality and kinship, let me tell you that I also don't agree with a lot of what Goldbridge say (I much prefer tuning in to Flex and KG after the match.) Stay safe SadlerMUFC, stay well!
Not coming apart at all. I just hate how Goldbridge brainwashes the weak minded and spreads his agenda across our fanbase. Case in point, you...
 

jem

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Not coming apart at all. I just hate how Goldbridge brainwashes the weak minded and spreads his agenda across our fanbase. Case in point, you...
Further evidence of your coming apart I'm afraid....stay safe friend - wear your mask, avoid the crowded, touristy areas.