Did you read my full post? Reread my friend! it's in what you quoted, specifically the second bit.
Who replaces Ten Hag?
- Thread starter Plant0x84
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Just get Ten Hag better players this summer.
Get him a centre back, left back, right back, CM/CDM depending on where Mainoo will be starting and a left/right winger depending on where Garnacho will start.
Then see how he does with those 5 new starting calibre players. He deserves that chance, and if they're good players but it doesn't work out then we get a new manager at the end of next season.
Get him a centre back, left back, right back, CM/CDM depending on where Mainoo will be starting and a left/right winger depending on where Garnacho will start.
Then see how he does with those 5 new starting calibre players. He deserves that chance, and if they're good players but it doesn't work out then we get a new manager at the end of next season.
Yes, yes, yes! Very well said.
I tend to agree that it will not happen. Point is just that in my opinion it would be possible with reasonable and not excessive changes to the squad.
This was the point I was making.Of course Inzaghi is doing a brilliant job as are others being touted, but with the hierarchy deciding on how we play going forward,if the 1st manager who they choose(if at all)doesn't work out, the next guy should be able to pick up where the last manager left off and be able to work with the same profile of players otherwise we'd have what's been happening for the last 10 years with different styles requiring different players.
I wouldn't be totally shocked if they decide to keep EtH for at least 1 more season with the new set up and see if he can implement their vision of playing while they get the type of players needed.I also wouldn't rule out someone like Potter or De Zerbi, although personally I'm not that keen on either, I just think they have shown they are comfortable working under a particular structure, and play modern front foot football.
So do we in attack. And many other teams.
This argument falls down when you look at what he has been producing with what he has available to him. Yesterday's game was a good example. Home to Everton and the only 3 players missing from our strongest possible starting team were Martinez, Shaw and Hojlund, yet we could barely string two passes together. We lost at home to Fulham in very similar circumstances a couple of weeks ago.
A manager who can't cope when he's able to start 8 players from his preferred 11 isn't a manager we should be throwing unlimited resource at. Klopp has been missing about half his first team at Liverpool and has resorted to playing kids in a large number of recent fixtures. They've won 7 in a row. The difference in expectation is staggering.
My suggestion is to give Ten Hag a whole new starting eleven. Sack everyone at all positions above and below him and hire new people. Only when everything at the club changes except the manager he will get a fair chance. If all that doesn't work out then we get a new manager. Seems logical to me.
This is the guy, this club needs back a winning aura this guy is exactly that. No player bigger than the manager.
What about Arteta / Zidane / Emery ?
I’d rather keep ETH than any of that lot it’s so underwhelming
?Arteta
Is that you Rio?
Has to be
I agree with Rio , I think he would come
I really don't think fans are going to care much at this point about the formation we play. As long as it, y'know, works.
There is no evidence amongst our fan base that this is true.
I think it's pretty absurd to think our fanbase, having watched us become specialists in failure for ten years, will sniff at us if we start winning games playing good attacking football purely because our formation features wingbacks.
Its fair enough you think so but it acually isn't. We were not devoid of success when LVG employed yet they did nothing but moan about it. Even during Solsjaer's honey moon period they moaned almost EVERY time he employed it unless it was during a bad injury crisis.
You understate how addicted to wingers and a back four our fan base is.
Or the football was terrible and was inconsistent.
If we played good football with a 352 or 343, no one would complain. Let's not act like LVG was playing good football
Mismanagement at every level and in every aspect since SAF and Gill left. A new manager now, or maybe even next season would be rearranging the deckchairs again.
At least ETH knows in how deep In the shit we are.
to date the acting going is LVG's United played "bad football". The only accusation that could be labeled against his team's football was it was often uninventful because the attack was one paced most of his era. But under him United consistently possesed the ball and controlled games better than they have done under anyone since. Which precisely why most United fans on here can't ever convince me they'd get behind possesion based football. Most especially with wing backs.
Nah you've misjudged how much the fans value wingers. The "United DNA" is basically another term for "give me wide forwards and a striker". A variation will do but 352 or 532 isn't what a lot of our fans want by way of system. However IF it was only like this without the ball then sure it's fine.
A game we won 2.0 without Martinez, Shaw and Hojlund. Right....
We can agree to disagree. I don't think changing manager should be our priority. I think we're half way to getting a decent squad. We have got rid of a lot of players and still need a few more out and being replaced with top starting 11 players.
We weren't creating chances or as you said doing anything eventful. I addition, we generally were unable to control games away from home using the 352. It was pretty defensive. My personal belief is that I don't think Van Gaal was actually an expert at using it. It worked for his underdog national team run, but it really put us under the cosh. I've seen Tuchel use it to perfection at Chelsea. For me, particularly the 343, is a modern 442. It provides a solid protection whilst using an overload on the flanks to create chance after chance when used correctly. I don't think United fans would care if we actually performed well using any tactic. Performing well means creating chances and controlling most games, whilst looking solid. That was not achieved under LVG, so basing fan reaction based on his tenure at the club doesn't make much sense.
To prove a tactic works in opposition to a previous tactic, you have to play well using it. The performance has to convince fans that it works. Of course fans will want wingers if the tactic doesn't seem to be working, as they should. It's on the manager to convince fans, through performance that it works.
Ten Hag will never play progressive football. He doesn't need 11 world class players to dominate a game of football against the bottom half clubs.
Would Ten Hag win the league if he's managing City or Liverpool with their squads? No
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That's because you blatantly and repeatedly ignore the fact they constantly moaned about the amount of possession United had at the time. On top of moaning about 'the lack of action" in terms of shooting and wide play often blaming it on concentrating on having so much of the ball. I lost count of the amount of arguments I got in with many a fan on here on those matters at the time.
I also don't buy for one second United fans would enjoy Tuchel style 3-4-3 that he succesfully used at chelsea to win the UCL with no wingers and two number 10s. Just see for example their current dim view of Bruno and Mount as players. Now imagine those two starting every game operating just behind Hoijlund. Our fans would be aploplectic at the first sign of a wobble in results
Wiuld you say we play progressive football as a "transitional team?"
We could get David Moyes and start again from the point Sir Alex retired, except this time with no Woodward, and see if we do better this 10 years than the previous 10 years.
I think it all depends on performances, if the team is entertaining and playing with intensity I don't think anyone would complain even if it had 9 defenders. At the end of the day fans have to enjoy on thing - results or performances. If don't bring either then people are going to moan.
I watched the Inter v Bologna first half last night. What was amazing was how the guy has got a tune out of Sanchez and Mkhitaryan in their mid 30s. Another thing was their first goal, overlapping CBs assisting and scoring the goal. He has some ideas and what I like about him is that he does all this without sacrificing the solidity of the team. That is always a good omen if you want to make it in England.
At United though what matters most is mental fortitude and grit. You need to be able to rise above taking offense from the negative publicity that will always haunt the United manager. I think most lose their way the moment critics gang up on them.
A game we had no control of and a game that was decided by two penalties. I don't even mind that if it happens every so often but we're doing it every week. Better opposition beat us under those conditions, as Fulham did two weeks ago.
I think the squad needs a lot of work. There are some talented players within it but that talent needs to be cultivated with a proper coach and better players around them.
would absolutely love to see him in the dugout. Oozes class.
TBH We aren't any where near close to mastering the Ten Hag transition ball he wants to play. For we have failed at two crucial aspects, controlling the space between the defence and the high pressing front 5 and cutting the pitch into half when pressing by keeping compact and switched on during a pressing sequence.
Worst thing that happened is we lost all our key players before we had even bedded in the system in a very different agressive high risk shape. A shape very different to what we employed last season. One thing I will fault ETH for is stubbornly insisting on bedding it i. even with all the holes injuries have caused in the system. IMO he should have reverted back to last season's shape once he realized key men were out long term.
Inzaghi for me would thrive in England without question. I just don't feel that at United with the fans obsession with wingers, it would fit well. IMO City post Guardiola and Chelsea currently would suit him down to the ground. For both squads are perfect for back 3 systems like his favored 3-5-2. Even in attack both squads are suited to twin striker pairs.
Of which you could argue Amrabat, Antony & Malacia won’t be part of. Whilst the jury is firmly out on Mount who was dropped after a few games & has been unfit since.
The whole first team needs a shake up, manager included.
Not what I said at all.
At least not the point I was trying to convey. What I said is appointing a new manager is pointless if we don't sort out the backbone of the club first. It's rotten to the core.To clarify, I don't think Ten Hag is a messiah. I'm saying it's pointless to appoint a new manager (especially considering those who are available at the moment, none of them are anything special. ) when we are restructuring the club. We need a team built with a vision in mind and that takes time.
It's exactly the same thing with players. Everyone was jerking each other off and and hooray-ing when we were signing Pogba, or Cavani, Or Ibrahimovic, or Schweinsteiger, or Sancho, or Anthony, or Ronaldo. All we want is a new shiny toy to be in awe off instead of putting in the hard, neccesary work to be a successful team. Getting the right transfers in and having a good scouting network. I cringe everytime we are linked with Mbappe or Neymar because who gives a shite? That's not what we need at all.
My point is EXACTLY the opposite of the mentality that is responsible of where we are right now. We give a manager 3 seasons and give them everything except for what they ask for (high profile players or promising wonder kids for 90million£ to satisfy the fans) and then everything inevitably goes to shite and we hire a new manager. And this new manager has a different football-philosophy to the one prior, inheriting a team who was built to play in a completely different way. He tries his best to build his own team, at best getting his 3rd or 4th transfer-candidates because we have incompetent negotiators (and we're not an attractive club to join anymore. We are like a MLS team players go to to retire but based in Manchester). And the cycle continues.
I for one don't want Manchester United to be a joke anymore. I think it's best to be patient and put in the neccessary ground-work for a successful team even if it takes 5 more years of suffering and getting humiliated by our rivals. Give all the non-caring players the boot (no matter their status), build a team with a vision in mind, improve our staff in administrativ positions. The next manager we appoint should not be appointed due to status but if their football aligns with the team and vision we've built.
What we need is STABILITY and a long-term plan. Even if things are a bit rocky sometimes.
After 2 years and a load of signings, only Martinez and Hojlund are worth keeping beyond the summer. We'll be in a never ending cycle of only ever being half way to having a decent squad if Ten Hag has any say in the matter (which he will, seeing as its in his contract)
Standards need to be much higher
Ten Hag can shit in some people's mouth and they'd still defend his actions.