Who would you like to win it - Argentina, Croatia, France or Morocco?

[RacingClub]

Argentina does this all the time too, you inherited it from the italians, who complain a lot about the referee too when losing.

Especially argentinian football press, which is the worst of SouthAmerica by far.

Yeah it's almost as if everyone from every footballing nation does all the same things and the stereotypes arent accurate , rather just selectively highlighted depending on the preconceived bias of the observer.

 

[golden_blunder]

There was obviously a bit of bad blood from the start since I think Argentina used Van Gaal's words to stoke the flames a bit. Personally, while a bit daft by Van Gaal, it was hardly malicious, just Van Gaal being his normal self, he said he was confident we would win on pens and that Messi doesn't track back. Reading stories about him hating Latino's and adding stuff from the 90s and Di Maria's stint seems like they all made it a bit bigger than it had to be. The narrative that our games always erupt is also not really true. 2014 and 2006 were mostly bloodless and while 1998 had 2 reds, it hardly was a massive battle. I'm not a fecking grandpa so I'm not too clear on 1978, but if one side was suspect there, I'd say it's the side of the dictator.

The match itself, both parties were a bit cnuty, but for me the thing that really kicked it off was Paredes acting like a complete fecking lunatic. Our antic during penalties were weak sportsmanship as well, but then the way Emi Martinez reacted is completely over the top, since he is a huge trashtalker himself.

The ref didn't have an impact on the end result if you ask me, though not booking the handball was just such an easy decision to start the "Messi needs to win the cup" conspiracies, which is obviously bollocks if you ask me. They got one dodgy pen (not sure which match it was, the one with the keeper and the fist), that's all.

Having said all that, I hope Messi fecks off home without the cup, I'm petty like that.

I hate Van Gaal for the record but I didn’t like Messi saying the Dutch only reverted to hitting long to big players. So what if they did? The Argentina defence is reasonably small so why wouldn’t they?
It all got very childish. The game itself, 17 million yellow cards or something like that?

 

[FrankFoot]

Or I don't consider 2 WC and 2 Euro equivalent to 4-5 World Cups and as many if not more continental victories. It has nothing to do with self pity but the simple fact that France do not have as many silverware as the teams that I consider heavyweights, from an historical standpoint.

Italy have two more WCs than you because of Benito Mussolini.
Other than that, it's the same number of WCs won, the same number of Euros won, and the same number of WC semifinals reached between Italy and France.

Also performances should be counted as well, Italy missed the last 2 WCs and didn't get out of group stage I'm 2010 and 2014...just because it's not the "good ol days" it doesn't mean it should be erased from italian international history.

I already told you, the only two countries with more WC semifinals reached than France are Brazil and Germany, which are now the only two nations bigger than France at international level.

Only you here are denying France being a heavyweight, when the whole world see you as heavyweight already.

 

[JPRouve]

Italy have two more WCs than you because of Benito Mussolini.
Other than that, it's the same number of WCs won, the same number of Euros won, and the same number of WC semifinals reached between Italy and France.

Also performances should be counted as well, Italy missed the last 2 WCs and didn't get out of group stage I'm 2010 and 2014...just because it's not the "good ol days" it doesn't mean it should be erased from italian international history.

I already told you, the only two countries with more WC semifinals reached than France are Brazil and Germany, which are now the only two nations bigger than France at international level.

Only you here are denying France being a heavyweight, when the whole world see you as heavyweight already.

You can tell me whatever you want and I can have my opinion. I didn't ask or spoke for the whole world.

 

[Pintu]

Italy have two more WCs than you because of Benito Mussolini.
Other than that, it's the same number of WCs won, the same number of Euros won, and the same number of WC semifinals reached between Italy and France.

This is exaggerated… Italy winning it in hostile France in 38 proves they were a good side and that their 34 win wasn’t only down to Mussolini (otherwise we’d have to discount England 66 and Argentina 78 and many others « dodgy wins »).

But the rest of your post is very important. Italy, while still a heavyweight in the Euros, have become irrelevant in the WC since 2006 and France is generally speaking definitely as much a heavyweight. For me Argentina is also up there with them (same tier with Brazil and Germany maybe slightly ahead) and Spain is pretty close.

If we were to establish 2 tiers of big nations then France can only belong in the top tier alongside Brazil, Germany, Italy rather than the lower one (which could include Netherlands, Portugal and England for exemple).

 

[RacingClub]

Yeah I would call France a international heavyweight to be honest (over my lifetime at least).

Plus I would forecast (due to their amazing production line of talent) a couple more deep runs in the next decade.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

With Croatia out I have to support France

 

[huyn]

Italy have two more WCs than you because of Benito Mussolini.
Other than that, it's the same number of WCs won, the same number of Euros won, and the same number of WC semifinals reached between Italy and France.

Also performances should be counted as well, Italy missed the last 2 WCs and didn't get out of group stage I'm 2010 and 2014...just because it's not the "good ol days" it doesn't mean it should be erased from italian international history.

I already told you, the only two countries with more WC semifinals reached than France are Brazil and Germany, which are now the only two nations bigger than France at international level.

Only you here are denying France being a heavyweight, when the whole world see you as heavyweight already.

I tend to agree with @JPRouve here. I dont know how old he is, but I'm in my mid 40s and while I've been enjoying our recent success, I haven't forgotten all the years before 1998. I was too young to enjoy or remember Euro 84 but I remember the constant failures and disappointments our national team provided. We were England but much much worse. England fans call their team bottlers but at least they bottle on the big stage, France would bottle it in qualifiers. Making it to a Euro or a WC was already a big success at that time. And while 1998 was obviously the turning point, we had a lot of luck to get there. Not only it was at home so we didnt have the opportunity to fail in qualifiers, but we had the right generation peaking at the right time. We also got a lot of luck in the KO stages outside of the final.
Outside of that standalone Euro 84, we've only had 2 periods of success, 1998-2006 and 2014-now. In my opinion the heavyweights of football are Brazil, Germany and Italy. Not only they have the most titles, they have been consistently at the top since international football exist. I'd put us in the 2nd tier alongside Argentina and Spain. We're on our way to make it to the top tier but I think we need a couple more decades of success before we can belong there.

 

[FrankFoot]

I tend to agree with @JPRouve here. I dont know how old he is, but I'm in my mid 40s and while I've been enjoying our recent success, I haven't forgotten all the years before 1998. I was too young to enjoy or remember Euro 84 but I remember the constant failures and disappointments our national team provided. We were England but much much worse. England fans call their team bottlers but at least they bottle on the big stage, France would bottle it in qualifiers. Making it to a Euro or a WC was already a big success at that time. And while 1998 was obviously the turning point, we had a lot of luck to get there. Not only it was at home so we didnt have the opportunity to fail in qualifiers, but we had the right generation peaking at the right time. We also got a lot of luck in the KO stages outside of the final.
Outside of that standalone Euro 84, we've only had 2 periods of success, 1998-2006 and 2014-now. In my opinion the heavyweights of football are Brazil, Germany and Italy. Not only they have the most titles, they have been consistently at the top since international football exist. I'd put us in the 2nd tier alongside Argentina and Spain. We're on our way to make it to the top tier but I think we need a couple more decades of success before we can belong there.

Spain is not close to France at all, they have only reached semifinals twice, France 7 times (counting this year).
They have been knocked out by small teams in Russia and Morocco twice in a row, in 2018 and 2022.
Spain is more akin to be just generational success than France, as it is proven already.

Italy is becoming irrelevant in world cups, they literally missed two World cups in a row, and didn't get out of group stage in 2010 and 2014, that's 16 years of complete irrelevance in the World Cup...it should be counted as part of their history as well, just because it's not vintage it doesn't mean it's not part of italian history, as i see you have no problem mentioning France's failures in 1990 and 1994 as part of french history.

Brazil and Germany are bigger international sides than France, can't argue that.

Italy not so much, their current irrelevance in WC shouldn't be discounted just because it has happened recently... history keeps being written, and 16 years of irrelevance in WCs is not something to brush aside easily.

Also luck plays for everyone, Germany got lucky a bunch of times in WCs (their german luck run out in the last 2 WCs) so did Argentina and Italy.
France was unlucky sometimes too, shit happens for everyone... can't complain about getting some luck, as international tournaments require lucky moments.
And btw Blanc was sent off for nothing against Croatia in 98 semifinals, that was a shit call by the referee, as the croatian player did a Rivaldo acting there, that is the opposite of luck.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Given Croatia is out, it will be Morocco, France and Argentina in that order.

 

[RopersReturn]

Would be astonishing to see Morocco do it as they’ve been by far, biggest surprise team of the tournament imho.

 

[huyn]

Spain is not close to France at all, they have only reached semifinals twice, France 7 times (counting this year).
They have been knocked out by small teams in Russia and Morocco twice in a row, in 2018 and 2022.
Spain is more akin to be just generational success than France, as it is proven already.

Italy is becoming irrelevant in world cups, they literally missed two World cups in a row, and didn't get out of group stage in 2010 and 2014, that's 16 years of complete irrelevance in the World Cup...it should be counted as part of their history as well, just because it's not vintage it doesn't mean it's not part of italian history, as i see you have no problem mentioning France's failures in 1990 and 1994 as part of french history.

Brazil and Germany are bigger international sides than France, can't argue that.

Italy not so much, their current irrelevance in WC shouldn't be discounted just because it has happened recently... history keeps being written, and 16 years of irrelevance in WCs is not something to brush aside easily.

Also luck plays for everyone, Germany got lucky a bunch of times in WCs (their german luck run out in the last 2 WCs) so did Argentina and Italy.
France was unlucky sometimes too, shit happens for everyone... can't complain about getting some luck, as international tournaments require lucky moments.
And btw Blanc was sent off for nothing against Croatia in 98 semifinals, that was a shit call by the referee, as the croatian player did a Rivaldo acting there, that is the opposite of luck.

Of course Italy recent WC track has been a disaster but they won in 2006 before that drought. Also they won a Euro during that time. And a 16years WC drought is nothing compared to our 60+ years one. I'm confident Italy will bounce back just like they, and Germany and Brazil, always do.
No french person will disagree with you about Blanc's red card but it didnt really have consequences, we were already in the lead and held back until the end and Leboeuf was a good enough sub for the final, even though it didnt really matter as the final was the easiest game of the KO stage for us. But bringing that Croatia game is the perfect example of our luck, with Thuram scoring his only 2 goals in his 142 french caps during that game, it was literally a miracle.

 

[Grylte]

I don't really like Argentina, but just to piss off Ronaldo and his fangirls, it would be sweet to see Messi win it.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

I don't really like Argentina, but just to piss off Ronaldo and his fangirls, it would be sweet to see Messi win it.

Messi fanboys are far more annoying.

Anyone but Argentina.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Messi fanboys are far more annoying.

Anyone but Argentina.

Yeah, as bad as Ronaldo fanboys are, Messi’s are next level. Worst I’ve ever seen.

 

[Tommy79]

It's obvious that the Netherlands game was the exception rather than the rule and that picture that was circulated (which ignores all context) has made a massive impact on (from what I can gather from here and reddit) the Argentinian teams reputation with (especially) European fanbases.

Meh, their rep has been in the dumps for a lot longer than this WC depending on who you ask, as the English hate their players, see Peter Shilton's comments or the guy who told the Argentine FA to piss off when they looked for the hand of cheats jersey back only to find Steve Hodge sold it for 7.1 million and the support he got, also their vile playing acting which saw Becks wrongfully sent off 98, 4 years prior we saw the cheat from 86 get sent home for drug taking (coke) prior to matches.


And acting like 10-year-olds doesn't help people into having a better view of them.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/argentina-english-insult-world-cup-28727304

 

[FrankFoot]

Of course Italy recent WC track has been a disaster but they won in 2006 before that drought. Also they won a Euro during that time. And a 16years WC drought is nothing compared to our 60+ years one. I'm confident Italy will bounce back just like they, and Germany and Brazil, always do.
No french person will disagree with you about Blanc's red card but it didnt really have consequences, we were already in the lead and held back until the end and Leboeuf was a good enough sub for the final, even though it didnt really matter as the final was the easiest game of the KO stage for us. But bringing that Croatia game is the perfect example of our luck, with Thuram scoring his only 2 goals in his 142 french caps during that game, it was literally a miracle.

Thuram scoring is no luck, France threw everything in attack for the equalizer, someone had to score, even if it was not an attacker.

And Guivarch and Dugarry were useless the whole tournament, they weren't scoring anytime soon.

 

[RacingClub]

Meh, their rep has been in the dumps for a lot longer than this WC depending on who you ask, as the English hate their players, see Peter Shilton's comments or the guy who told the Argentine FA to piss off when they looked for the hand of cheats jersey back only to find Steve Hodge sold it for 7.1 million and the support he got, also their vile playing acting which saw Becks wrongfully sent off 98, 4 years prior we saw the cheat from 86 get sent home for drug taking (coke) prior to matches.


And acting like 10-year-olds doesn't help people into having a better view of them.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/argentina-english-insult-world-cup-28727304

I mean you could probably make a similar list for any high profile national side.

I think those are a bunch of pretty petty reasons (not to mention the context of the time, Malvinas/Falklands war) to have preconceived biases against a country of 55 million people personally but people can think how they want.

The actions of the Dutch were widely ignored while the actions of the Argentinians were widely criticized.

The song in that Article has references to the Argentinians who died in the Malvinas (Falklands) War vs the British , it's not an offensive song.


That's like calling people who sing "The fields of Athenry" at sporting events children because they are singing a melancholic song that has links to republicanism if you add in the secret extra lines.

 

[matsdf]

If Argentina wins I'm quitting football... For a while at least. Just hate them.

 

[RedDevil@84]

If Argentina wins I'm quitting football... For a while at least. Just hate them.

Stop behaving like Messi

 

[TheNewEra]

If Argentina wins I'm quitting football... For a while at least. Just hate them.

Who do you play for? Please be Erling Haalands Caf account.

 

[Gasolin]

Everyone sees you as a heavyweight. You've won 4 major trophies, including 2 WC. And a bunch of the lesser trophies as well (like the NL a year ago). You've also produced some of the biggest names in football's history (Players and managers alike).

We just need the third star. Let us have it. Thank you.

 

[Gasolin]

Italy have two more WCs than you because of Benito Mussolini.
Other than that, it's the same number of WCs won, the same number of Euros won, and the same number of WC semifinals reached between Italy and France.

Also performances should be counted as well, Italy missed the last 2 WCs and didn't get out of group stage I'm 2010 and 2014...just because it's not the "good ol days" it doesn't mean it should be erased from italian international history.

I already told you, the only two countries with more WC semifinals reached than France are Brazil and Germany, which are now the only two nations bigger than France at international level.

Only you here are denying France being a heavyweight, when the whole world see you as heavyweight already.

Italy has 4 WC and even the Italian players would tell you that they don't even consider France as a rival. Only Germany and Brazil in their minds. So yes, we need 2 more stars while the others don't progress to be at their level.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

France.

Don't know who are worse, Messi fan boys or Ronaldo fan boys.