Football is team game indeed, but to be called as the greatest footballer ever he need to performed the highest level not only at Club but also at NT and not dependent on his teammates stepping up too. Messi at least failed to do this at NT and that's why he is only GOAT at club level for me.
So a footballer from some micronation can't possibly be the best footballer in the world, no matter how good at football he becomes, because the rest of his teammates are butchers, bakers and candlestick makers?
Maradona at least able to performed the highest level at both Club and NT even with less talented teammates than Messi ever had. If Messi truly is the greatest ever he should be able to do the same like Maradona did.
In what planet is Zidane not in the GOAT debate? He's the best player I've ever seen.
In any rational one, Zidane was a great player but when talking about the GOAT not even Cristiano is in that conversation.
Consistent greatness/genius is boring but sporadic genius/drama is exciting. I personally don't think so.
Maradona and Messi are both freak athletes with ridiculous amounts of skill. They could both do whatever on any given day. More stuff came off at national level for the cocaine fuelled one than it has for the HGH fuelled one, granted, but it was a different era back then and the level of professionalism in football nowadays is far ahead of what it was in Maradona's day when half the opposition were probably on the lash the night before. That also factors into Messi being the goat. You just have to read some old biographies to see how seriously a lot of the old top players treated their profession.
I know how most of the greats like Best and Garrincha treated their careers. Their downfall were almost very similiar because of Booze, woman, etc. Garrincha was even well-known for being lazy at training session. But what makes him incredible was not only his skills but also able to performed the highest level at 1962 WC with a crooked leg too.
Zidane in the 98' WC on a whole other levelHenry was a part time player in 98, and he was probably France's 3rd best at 2006, meanwhile Zidane was on a totally different level at both World Cups and Euro 2000 where he was ridiculously good.
Your Arbeloa vs Ferdinand comparison is off, it's more Henry vs Zidane than the other way around.
"He never won a Cup", that's just cute
.Messi is better than Zidane at literally everything other than heading, there’s literally no comparison between the two.
Conversely Messi has something that will be almost impossible to match, he is the all time goalscorer and assists maker in La Liga, that's something that I would like to have. The only deal breaker for me regarding Messi's career is Maradona, I would hate being in his shadow in my own country.
Zidane's corner set up Christophe Dugarry against South Africa, and in the second game he got past out of a challenge and flicked a pass for Lizarazu to tee up Henry’s opener. Later he was sent off.Zidane in the 98' WC on a whole other level
1st game: France demolish South Africa 3-0. Also, Henry
2nd game: Zidane stomps a Saudi player and earns a 2 match suspension, Henry scores 2 goals.
3rd game: Zidane doesn't play.
R16: Zidane doesn't play.
QF: Does almost nothing in a dull game.
SF: Thuram's show.
But hey, he scored two headers from set pieces in a WC final, untouchable.
In his home WC, with his team winning the trophy and destroying Brazil in the final, Ronaldo got the golden ball. Was that due to sponsors too?.
Zidane is probably my favorite player ever but he's not even the GOAT among midfielders for me. Throw in the usual forwards into the mix and he's not even close to being the best ever imho.
I don't even think that Zidane is the best french player, for me it's Platini.
Didn't Cryuff win a Euro?
Eder of course.
Ah, I stand corrected. On Cryuff. Not Cantona
Yh there's a load of positives for Messi, he's probably got a bag full of records that won't be broken and ability wise is pretty untouchable.
Amen bruvva!
Don't forget the panenka penalty he scored against Buffon before the head butt.
Nah, don't buy it. He's been absolutely incredible for Argentina too, and he's the last person you'd point at for Argentina's failures (especially at his peak). It's not his fault that team could never be coached into a cohesive unit, he's scored 68 in 136 and done a lot more than score too.
Ability-wise Pele and Maradona were on same level with Messi, Pele was a bit better than Messi but not much. On club level Messi won, but on International Level Pele and Maradona won.
That's fine and all, but you speak to Argentinians, or just fans in general and he does get the blame. I don't think it's fair either, but many people will not look on his international career as a success compared to other legends of the game. He will be an absolute legend of club football, but he will have nowhere near the same respect on the international scene. The sample size is undoubtedly smaller on the international scene compared to club football, but that's the same for everybody. He has less international goals in his career in knockout stages of the world cup than freakin' Mbappe who's barely 20 and has had two less world cups to participate in. His missed penalty against Chile, his early retirement and come back, there's no way he will be seen as a legend of the international game. he will be a Barcelona legend and remembered as one of the bests, but I don't think he will be considered greater than Pele in general, or Maradona to Argentinians.
like someone said, what we prefer more in this thread tells a bit about us. I don't have problem with admitting that I don't care that much about my own country that I'd sacrifice personal glory just to bring home one particular trophy. especially since I'm from very small country that perhaps won't even exist in 100-150 years, is corrupted as hell, it's already collapsing in a way and I don't even work there anymore so obviously I'm not that attached to it or people who live there. so yeah, I'd rather be remembered as the best or one of the best, winning trophy every year and breaking all kinds of records than win a trophy that would mean something "only" to people from my country. there, I said it.
I can honestly say Zidane was the best player I've seen, favouritism/bias aside. And the main point still stands that I'd prefer his career over Messi's, personal achievement's aside.
