Problem at Utd is the same one at the Dippers which is that they believe that they need to find a perfect manager (who'll need time) rather than going for the win now approach. That is why the Dippers took 30 years to win the league again and Utd are fumbling about in the dark now. Another thing that should also be remembered is that this isn't the first time it has happened to Utd. Prior to the first PL, it was 26 years between titles.
Why are the standards at one of the biggest club in football (Manchester United) so low?
- Thread starter Amadaeus
- Start date
During the match day, you have to support the team and that includes the manager and player even if you don't rate them because you want them to do well to win the match. Outside the match is different story. So there is nothing wrong singing it when they are attending the match, why are you finding that as something wrong? Are you one of those fans who supported or created thread for hoping us to lose?
I am hoping to see us play well and win regardless of who our manager is. Didn’t want us to lose a single game so not sure what you are saying.
Match days fans are biggest indicator of mood because of their visibility. Unless they turn, all this posting on Internet is not going to force board hand. So that accusation of not being in sync is not correct.
If that's what you are hoping then how could you not apply that same principle to the fans who are attending the match because the reason they are actually singing is to cheers our own players and manager to do well to win match!! Why can't you understand that?
1) Happy clapper deluded fans, who accept mediocrity no other top teams fans would.
Do you really think Bayern Munich fans would be clapping David Moyes down the tunnel 2 weeks before he was sacked, or singing Ole at the Wheel when he is clearly out of his depth?
2) The board are happy with basic CL qualification. Therefore money is capped to a certain degree, and never go that true 'extra mile' to push us that step further. Examples include when Mourinho needed a CB, and even Ole needing a DM (although you could argue he had enough money).
3) Enablers. Class of 92 / Fergie still lingering in the background like the ghosts of Christmas past, defending their friends for their own selfish purposes.
Do you really think Bayern Munich fans would be clapping David Moyes down the tunnel 2 weeks before he was sacked, or singing Ole at the Wheel when he is clearly out of his depth?
2) The board are happy with basic CL qualification. Therefore money is capped to a certain degree, and never go that true 'extra mile' to push us that step further. Examples include when Mourinho needed a CB, and even Ole needing a DM (although you could argue he had enough money).
3) Enablers. Class of 92 / Fergie still lingering in the background like the ghosts of Christmas past, defending their friends for their own selfish purposes.
I'm not mixing anything nor went tribal, just under the impression that your owners don't give much of a shit about MU from a football point of view and it shows. Not rubbing it in your face, just how it feels from an outsider point of view.
Even if they're not football experts, just as our owners are or many others in the league, it doesn't mean that they can let the footballing standards drop. At least not for a long time. To keep it simple, MU as a club are a cornerstone, an institution in the english top league, they have enough history and trophies for anyone who's remotely interested in investing in it to know what the football expectations of the club are. Say what you want about the Qataris, Abramovich and the like, but the thing is that they understood what their club and fans football expectations are. Of course they make a shitload of money out of it, that's their goal at the end of day, but they're killing two birds with one stone. Generate money and put the club in the spotlight while keeping the fans happy. They are in their own way committed, not selling them pipe dreams based on buzzwords like "DNA".
The point I'm trying to make is that the common point they all have is a footballing vision, they plan for the long term. No matter what the underlying motives or the means to the end are, they want their club at the very top of the food chain, and will spare no effort (nor the money at disposal) to achieve that. They also appoint competent people at the footballing helm since they're not experts in the matter, and hold them accountable for the footballing results. They try to make the results sustainable by establishing a competent scouting system in accordance to the club's footballing vision. They're not caught in any kind of romanticism or nostalgia because it's a football club not Disneyland, and bring out the axe whenever they feel that the club isn't going in the desired direction. All of the well run clubs have a plan, a clear upward trajectory. None of them keep a manager around when he's not up to it because muh, player legend. See Frank Lampard as the most recent example. They take their respective club's footballing ambitions seriously.
We appointed Claude Puel because he was a builder. He's a much maligned manager in England because of his stint at Soton, but imo he actually did well despite the shite hand he was dealt with. Just like you, after Ranieri's sacking in February 2017, we gave into sentimentality by giving a permanent job to the caretaker Craig Shakespeare. He was the training coach under Ranieri and before him, Nigel Pearson, who actually built the team that would go winning the 2015/16 title. He was a very competent coach and well liked among the players, and when he took over after Ranieri's sacking, he lead us to the CL quarter-finals while achieving a respectable 12th place (for us then) in the league. He was then appointed as permanent manager in June 2017. Now caretaker and manager are two very different things, as Shakespeare would experience it the hard way. After a disastrous league start and unconvincing summer signings, it was clear for us and the owners that it was a bridge too far. Going back to the 2015/16 glorious way of playing wouldn't cut it anymore as teams now have adapted, and he was sacked in mid October 2017.
Enter Claude Puel. For most of the english fans, he was the guy who stank up the place at Southampton, playing dour, defensive football. These fans conveniently forget that Southampton lost most of their major assets at that time and Puel had to put out fires during the whole season he was there. He still took them to the FA Cup final, against you, where they honestly should've won the game, and finishing 8th in the league, 2 places below Koeman's last season but still respectable considering how many of the star players they lost. Now for people who actually followed football and not only the PL, Puel was a (french) league winner and had the reputation of breeding in young players as well as getting the most of his flair players. To the contrary to what he had to do with Soton given the circumstances, he actually advocated attacking football - whenever possible. The season before he was appointed, he did wonders at Nice, playing attractive, attacking football and reviving Ben Arfa's dead career in the process.
For us it was crucial, as we had Mahrez who was adrift and underperforming, no playing system, and a bloated, dysfunctional, ageing squad that needed to be trimmed down. It was an ungrateful, shit job for anyone who'd be brave enough to take, and add to that a very strong resistance amongst the fans from the moment he was appointed. Yet he did it, with more or less success. Mahrez was flying again under him, until Man City messed with his head and Puel blocked his transfer in January 2018. He stopped the slump, cleared the deadwood. We stopped leaking goals like there was no tomorrow, finally had a style of play even if it was hard to watch at times, and finished 9th that season. The young'uns were given a chance. Maddison, Tielemans, Söyüncü, R. Pereira were all his signings. All young, full of potential but still unproven in the top flight. Fofana is our current most promising CB and is hugely missed due to his terrible pre-season injury. Guess who gave him a chance and bred him in at St-Etienne before we bought him last season? Yeh, that Claude Puel. You can also add Jonny Evans, in another register though.
However he fell out with senior players, particularly with Vardy. We lost Mahrez to City at the end of the season, the fans hated his dull press conferences and weren't pleased with the football produced even if just like Southampton, we had more pressing issues than playing attractive football. Still, there was a tangible, visible progress, transitioning from a predominant, but sussed out counter-attacking football to a more contemporary, possession based one. So the club stuck with him for the moment. In the 2018-19 season however, things went to shit, we weren't doing great in the league, lost to Newport in the 3rd round of the FA Cup and after a dreadful run (5-6 games without a win in the PL, I think) the owners decided they've seen enough and pulled the trigger in February 2019. Rodgers was then appointed a couple of days after that, which obviously means that he's been approached way before Puel's sack. But he was as much an upgrade on Puel as a continuity in the way we wanted to play the game. Possession based without renouncing to our trademark counterattack, free flowing attacking football with emphasis on young/promising players in line with what we would and could sign. The rest is what you and I know.
So from the moment they took over in 2008, we went from being a poorly run, yo-yo club, even being relegated to League One, to genuine top 4-6 PL contenders, despite the implosions at the end of the last two seasons. We went from Peter fecking Taylor, Ian Holloway to Brendan Rodgers. From fighting relegation each season to contending for a european place. How long will it last? God only knows, but the will of the owners and their vision about the club was imprinted from day one. Not that we're the only ones in this case, mind. What I'm trying to say is that "pashun", commitment have to come from the top to be effectively translated on the pitch. It starts with the higher-ups and what they want from the club they bought. And yes, if Ole by some kind of miracle, pulls it out and manages to keep you in the top 4 and comes out of his group stage in the UCL, they'd have no reason to sack him. You still generate an insane amount of money and attract fans from all over the world, based on your not so far away achievements. The other "historic" clubs (Juve, Barca, Real, etc.) aren't doing that well, especially since the pandemic, so there's still lots of money to be made out of it.
Yeh, we had financial issues since we were trying to keep up the pace with the best english teams while building one of the most modern training grounds in England and a stadium expansion, and nobody could have predicted a fecking pandemic that would last almost two years. While you might have not felt it, it affected a lot of clubs who are less blessed in income matters. I don't know what you're getting at, and it seems to me that you're using that strawman while eluding the points I've made about a club's management.
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Maybe that's part of the reason Ole was given a contract extension, as the owners thought he could get away with it because of him being so liked by the fans and now it's reaching a point even the most patient and loyal fans are starting to realize he's just not up for the job. 3 years is in fact a lot of time in football and even when Klopp arrived to Liverpool it was noticeable the gamestyle he was trying to implement. So my thoughts is that he should had been an interim and a stop gap while planning ahead of the next manager but it seems there hasn't been a plan beyond him.
Nope. Even approaching Mourinho’s final season the idea of just getting top 4 would have been considered a failure.
Liverpool will keep pace with them again for the 3rd year from the last 4 so…..
The club priorities have shifted from football to commercial success.
As long as the club is raking in the money commercially the football will always take a back seat.
Can thank the Glazers for the priority shift. Once they're gone we might get an owner who puts the football head and shoulders above everything else.
As long as the club is raking in the money commercially the football will always take a back seat.
Can thank the Glazers for the priority shift. Once they're gone we might get an owner who puts the football head and shoulders above everything else.
I would point to the Glazer`s ambitions for the club. They are satisfied, if we end in top 4, so the club keeps making money from CL, and the fans are not too unsatisfied. Glazers do not care (enough), if we win the league or not.
That's why I said I was playing devils advocate (i.e. it's not necessarily something I believe), I think given the stature of Manchester United and the money that has been invested, everybody involved deserves better. But could you say with 100% certainty that given the owners of Liverpool, and given the emerging threat of Newcastle with their ownership, that they'll still be keeping pace at the top in even 5 years, particularly if Klopp goes in 2024?
By rewarding mediocrity.
If this is our standards, then we may as well change our name to Arsenal or Spurs. Heck even spurs may have higher standards than us.
We are 6th and with this form we will be mid table by the end of the season as we are one win in seven. Relegation form.
I know this is an old thread, but this still holds true for now 11 years.
How is that our manager is not sacked or there is not huge pressure on him to be sacked?
Are we just going to get used to this mediocrity?
I know this is an old thread, but this still holds true for now 11 years.
How is that our manager is not sacked or there is not huge pressure on him to be sacked?
Are we just going to get used to this mediocrity?
Congrats on bumping a 3year old thread. You’re going to make yourself popular with the modmins!!
RIP Amadeus.
In all honesty? It's the fans. We are at fault for letting standards slip.
In all honesty? It's the fans. We are at fault for letting standards slip.
Garnacho's (or his team) first response to a shit team performance is to scroll twitter and like pro-garnacho posts.
Pretty much sum's up this club doesn't it?
Pretty much sum's up this club doesn't it?
For me:
- The Owners. The Glazers are buffoons and have no idea what they are doing. They are trust fund babies who got one of the biggest football institutions in the world in inheritance. They have no fecking clue on how to run a football club and thrust the responsibility on some chancers in Woodie, Arnold, Murtough and co. Those guys kept fecking up without any accountability and kept pushing us deeper and deeper into the quagmire.
- Historically, most of our success has come under 2 managers who had huge personalities. We have failed to move on with time and keep hoping that luck will shine on us again and history will keep repeating. We keep hoping that a GOAT manager will walk in the door and make everything right for us. Most of our fans have only seen Fergie at the helm and our success under him. He got time in the beginning and his genius shone through. Now our fans are under the illusion that if we give time to any manager he'll succeed like Fergie did. For some reason they don't want to accept the fact that plenty of managers were hired and fired between Busby and Fergie. Also, they can't discern that the situation is completely different from when Fergie came in and now. Fergie made us one of the top clubs in the world. It was his genius that allowed the Glazers to sell us and make us a commercial behemoth. And now these managers are failing to continue that legacy despite being provided resources that Fergie could only dream of.
- The Owners. The Glazers are buffoons and have no idea what they are doing. They are trust fund babies who got one of the biggest football institutions in the world in inheritance. They have no fecking clue on how to run a football club and thrust the responsibility on some chancers in Woodie, Arnold, Murtough and co. Those guys kept fecking up without any accountability and kept pushing us deeper and deeper into the quagmire.
- Historically, most of our success has come under 2 managers who had huge personalities. We have failed to move on with time and keep hoping that luck will shine on us again and history will keep repeating. We keep hoping that a GOAT manager will walk in the door and make everything right for us. Most of our fans have only seen Fergie at the helm and our success under him. He got time in the beginning and his genius shone through. Now our fans are under the illusion that if we give time to any manager he'll succeed like Fergie did. For some reason they don't want to accept the fact that plenty of managers were hired and fired between Busby and Fergie. Also, they can't discern that the situation is completely different from when Fergie came in and now. Fergie made us one of the top clubs in the world. It was his genius that allowed the Glazers to sell us and make us a commercial behemoth. And now these managers are failing to continue that legacy despite being provided resources that Fergie could only dream of.
To be fair we weren’t going to go on winning the league every year forever. The PL is the most competitive league for top places. There are 2 other mega clubs (Pool and Arsenal) and 3 oil clubs (City, Chelsea and Newcastle) as well as other big clubs such as Villa. We’ve not even had 2 years outside the top 4 consecutively as of yet and we’ve still picked up some cups here and there. Given the strength of competition things could’ve been a lot worse and have reached lower points at all the above clubs I’ve mentioned in the last 10 years (other than City).
It’s very difficult to demand first place every year and let’s not pretend we are the only club in the land who pretty much experienced that over an incredibly long period of time in the PL era. City are starting to now but could easily be very different in 5 years. A Real Madrid of the PL is impossible.
It’s very difficult to demand first place every year and let’s not pretend we are the only club in the land who pretty much experienced that over an incredibly long period of time in the PL era. City are starting to now but could easily be very different in 5 years. A Real Madrid of the PL is impossible.