I'm not avoiding anything. The bottom line is, that very reputable Journos are saying Mourinho wanted all the players that were signed. Unless you can provide something that contradicts the Journos in question, I will trust the information at hand.
Why did we buy Fred?
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Again that's not the main point. The main point Mourinho wanted them or not Ed wasn't forced to follow him blindly and he proved that on 3 occasions already so agreeing on this deal is on him then.
If Ed got him because he was a Mourinho target and paid a ridiculous fee for him why didn't he accept to pay 70m of Toby or Maguire or 50m for Perisic ?
Reason is he thought they weren't worh the value of money asked.
So when he goes on and pays 50m for Fred in the same period then that proves he also thought he was worth the value asked. Otherwise could he have done what he did with Perisic, Willian and Toby and decided he wasn't worth the value asked and pack off from the deal.
If he's going to be praised for not sanctioning Perisic and Toby deals because they were over the odds then he deserved to be criticized for sanctioning Fred's deal for over the odds price, otherwise it'll be a double standard.
Are you going to give a reasonable reason for this contradiction or you're going to repeat the 'Mouinho's target, 400m' thing again ?
Same here. I'm confident he'll make it here. Needs time and good run of games.
I can see where this is coming from, and in one situation on the pitch he looks like a really good player and the next he doesn't. For me he is unstable. One moment he is able to receive and pass the ball on with precision and in a short amount of time. The next moment he receives the ball without having control of his surroundings, or his first touch is Lukakuesque, or the pass is off or too risky. There is a lack of consistency in a large part of his play, not unlike a certain ivorian centre back we have. If he could be more consistent then i would want him to play more, but seeing as he would play as one of two defensive minded midfielders and our need to win game(hope of top 4) the lack of consistency is a big problem. Then again, playing regularly might help him becoming more consistent. Might be a concentration issue, or lack of experience, or not feeling confident/comfortable?
I really think we need a combative all rounder in the Essien mould. I think Fred looks half decent I just think he's not the player to play with Pogs and Matic....which then makes him an expensive option.
We really need a Fernandinho type of player. We have CM and AM, but no one who is good at covering the defence. Someone who can tackle, win the ball and pass it on regularly to the forward players. Someone who can step in as the extra defender when under pressure. Mourinho tried Fred Herrera Fellaini Matic and even Pogba but none of them have that skillset. Fred was a bad uneccessary buy and I think it was because City were reportedly after him, we went for him.
Bailly was the other way around
No I don't believe it's lack of concentration or experience simply the pace of the league is very intense. For some players it takes a bit longer to find their feet and Fred is one of those players. Added to fact he joined a dysfunctional team struggling with basics for 6 months it coumpounds even further. Personally Ive been impressed mostly the times he's been on the pitch. His first touch is excellent actually and the way he moves the ball and fizzes the passes is very enjoyable to watch. I'm very very confident he will get into the hang of it sooner rather than later.
I think the key difference with Fred to the other 3 you listed is age, there was longer term or potential sell on value in Fred, I don't think Ed makes calls based on his football knowledge as he doesn't have any, he makes them from purely a business perspective, the other 3 had a shorter shelf life and no resale, it was a flat investment, even now we would get some money back on Fred.
Whatever happy pill you are taking - I want it
I think we won’t see his best till next season or even the following season due to the position he plays in and the fact his game is based on speed and risk. He’s not getting into the team as what we have is far more settled and winning matches. Simple enough. He’ll get a chance again soon enough and hopefully he can take it and give ole a selection headache. Most players are better for having a season to settle in.
His biggest problem for me is he thinks he's Pirlo.
Agreed. Like Lindelof he will take time to bed in. I think he rushes things at the moment which makes him look a bit sloppy, but that’ll come when he relaxes.
We’ve seen some great stuff from him though and he looks a threat when going forward. I’d like to see a midfield of Pogba / Fred / Herrera in the home matches coming up.
Did he tell you this?
I mean c'mon the lad might be playing shit, but how do you come up with stuff like that?
I think Fred was bought to do the exact job that Herrera did vs Tottenham. Box to box CM.
The problem is that I dont see Fred displacing Matic, Herrera or Pogba so essentially we paid 50m for a backup CM.
The problem is that I dont see Fred displacing Matic, Herrera or Pogba so essentially we paid 50m for a backup CM.
Hopefully you are right and i'm wrong and that Fred proves worthy of the transferfee and a starting position in the team, but i think you are wrong and that he will be labeled as the worst transfer in the PL this season based on size of fee. And that we should have spent the £££ on Torreira and the likes of Barella, Paredes, Ndombele and Aouar.
For sure he'll be needed in the remainder of the season there's still lots of games to play in three different competitions with a busy period coming up.
Easier home games to begin with even if it's coming off the bench 15/20 minutes otherwise we'll end up running Matic into the ground again. Maybe Arsenal cup game could be his next start.
Time will tell.
I'm under the suspicion that he was a purchase by Mourinho to replace Pogba. Obviously that has backfired terribly. At this stage, he is not going to replace any of our first XI defenders, can only be used as a backup to Pogba, he's not going to replace Herrara or Matic.
He is good player, but for 50M backup CM......wow so expensive.
Why was he on the bench??
I don't want to see a lot of change to our XI for the Brighton game but Fred for Herrera would be one change that I'd like to see. Surely we don't need two DMFs for this game and the more adventurous Fred would help break down what could be stubborn opponents.
Like others on here, I think there's a good player there and am willing to give him time to settle.
Like others on here, I think there's a good player there and am willing to give him time to settle.
Pogba Herrera Matic midfield combo has been very productive. I rather not break that up. Fred can come in as a sub when we are 3 goals up.
Why do people think Ed has no football knowledge?
I am sure if he picks a username and joins the caf, we will all think, 'wow, this guy knows something about football.'
I believe this to be a Jose signing. He stated in the summer he wanted a Brazilian. I think he wanted to upgrade Herrera. God knows why we didn’t prioritise a CB with that money. Andres returning and Fellaini resigning along with his POTY Mctominay surely meant we didn’t a CM.
Why'd you know?
Maybe he would turn out to be a solid player, but feck me, I struggle to see why we needed him to be fair.
I remember David De gea being criticized during his first citizen here. The media, pundits and fans. People said he was not good enough and couldn't adapt to the premier league.
Oh, yeah.
It's just plain ridiculous writing off a player completely after less than one season.
Oh, yeah.
It's just plain ridiculous writing off a player completely after less than one season.
De Gea wasn't as bad as made to sound. He still made word class saves and you could tell that once he ironed out the mistakes he would be one of the best in the league
People who didn't know what they were talking about. He was pulling off world class saves from day one, he just needed to learn to command his area.
Fred has the talent, it's good that he's out of the firing line for a bit. He needs to improve his decision making so he can use that talent properly.
I also still wonder if this was part of Mourinho's bigger plan to try and get rid of Pogba from the beginning.
DDG was a 19 year old kid, and playing in a position we clearly needed. He got dropped a few times, but we knew he would come back in. He got lots of opportunities to play and show up what he could do.
The issue with Fred is that he should be ready to come straight into the team (with a bit of adjustment), he’s about to turn 26. But unlike DDG, he’s a player who I don’t think we need, he’s completely surplus to requirement. All of our midfielders, are above him in the pecking order. He’s made such a mess of the chances he’s been given, I can’t see why there is any justification in him getting on the pitch, bar an injury crisis.
Many back then did not think DDG was good enough. That's my point. But I can go on and on to mention players who many didn't think were good enough in their debut season. Just imagine Luka Modric being voted the worst signing in the LA Liga back in 2011/2012. Drogba was also highly criticized in his first season as being below expectation. Even here, I read not too long ago Scholes saying how the dressing room was very concerned when Fergie signed Vidic and Evra because they just didn't look like they would succeed. Vidic looked skinny and lost the ball too many times because he was not strong enough. The guy turned himself into a beast the following season by working his ass off in the gym.
I have seen enough in football to know that you just have to give a player that small benefit of doubt if all you have seen is less than one season especially if the player has a little bit of success history somewhere and if managers like Pep actually wanted him.
He may yet prove to be a flop but he may also become a big asset with time. Let's wait and see.
I agree with all of that, but just don’t see where he’s going to get any opportunities now we are coming up to the important part of the season, we need to play our best and strongest team, as we can’t afford to drop many points. Just don’t see how he can get many minutes.
He doesn't need to get many minutes. He just needs to make himself a very useful sub as he adapts more and more. He can stake his claim to the first eleven with time. Martial, Rashford, Shaw and Lindelof warmed the bench for long. Look at them now.
Exactly the way I feel too. Top analysis!
Probably just needs a string of games to get used to the pace.
I can understand where your coming from. However what is lacking with Fred is not the same as what people (myself included) saw was lacking with Lindelöf. Lidelöf's recent development has been unbelievable imo. To go from where he was when he came, to where he is now, I just couldn't see happening. With Fred the issue isn't so much his skills but his physicality. Question is can that side of him be developed to suit his aggressive style of play to be able to cut it in the PL?
I quite like him, think there's talent there but he's very raw and he can look awful at times.
I've got no idea why we bought him though, especially at £50m. And Mourinho clearly didn't know what to do with him which begs the question why did he sign him? His last 6 months here were borderline criminal.
I've got no idea why we bought him though, especially at £50m. And Mourinho clearly didn't know what to do with him which begs the question why did he sign him? His last 6 months here were borderline criminal.
His wastefulness and lack of discipline have to improve before he gets a run in the team. I like his forward thinking attitude but he's incredibly sloppy sometimes, once he cuts that out he'll get some game time.