Why do people keep posting that the season is 'practically done', or 'literally over' for us...?

[bosnian_red]

But, we're not rock bottom though, that's the point...

We're in the last 16 of the CL

The 3rd round of the F.A Cup

And are 6th with 21 games left to play

It's like people are hypnotized or something.

We still have a lot to play for!

We are 8 points off of 5th place and 14 goals behind in GD. Further still off of 4th. It's not giving up on the season, it's being realistic. Mourinho had us so far off the pace that it's almost impossible for us to claw back the gap from here. We'd have to go on a run from here on in equivalent to our highest ever points total under Sir Alex to have a realistic chance at the top 4. The CL is nothing but a dream if we're being realistic at all, but obviously we have to try and hope.

The FA Cup is what we're playing for, and to get our pride and identity back. There of course is plenty to play for, but when people say the season is lost, they basically mean that from a league perspective, we aren't achieving anything this season, so lets just go one game at a time and hope for the best and focus on making Manchester United an entertaining side again.

 

[GaryLifo]

That's crazy, I hope the club has higher standards - no offense meant to you with that, but to bring in a new manager and accept worse results than a manager just fired, because the new guy 'more likable' is insane.

But that's exactly what a very large number of posters on here have been saying they would accept for months.

Happy to lose 4-3 every game as long as we attack is what they claim they would be happy with.

Looking forward to the moaning they'd actually do if this actually happened under Ole.

 

[Moonred]

Well it’s not ‘literally’ over.

 

[Schneckerl]

The last 2 years 75 and 76 points were needed to clinch the 4th spot. Means we need about 50 out of 63 possible points in 21 games.
Something like 15 wins and 6 draws for example.

 

[worldinmotion66]

I'd argue that our season is about to begin.

 

[peridigm]

My thought prior to Jose being sacked is the season is done. Yes, we're still in the 3 comps as you stated but our chances of getting anything other than maybe deep in the FA cup were slim to none. With Jose gone, I still firmly believe top 4 is a bridge too far. Mathematically, yes, we're still in it but would require a meltdown of monumental proportions by two of Chelsea, Spurs, or Arsenal. While we have a finish to the season that would rival City and Liverpool's start. You have to admit the odds on that happening are not very good.

So with the league seemingly over except if the club really wants to finish in a EL spot, and I'm sure they do, our best chance success is CL and/or the FA Cup. The FA Cup may be doable. CL will be a hard task but you never know. Not getting my hopes up for anything only to be disappointed in the end. Thanks Jose.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The league season as in terms of title and top 4 are over. Not even Fergie recovers this. We're 11 behind 4th (effectively 12). Not only that but there's Arsenal who are also 8pts clear and ready to take advantage of slip ups first.

The CL is a pipe dream. Not going to happen.

So we have the FA Cup, EL football qualification and pride to play for. The season is not over at all but I get what people mean who say it is.

 

[reddaz71]

This reminds me of the forward with franny nonsense all those years ago at city, blind optimism at its best!

 

[Stepney73]

This season is not about top 4 or trophys anymore.

It's about getting all the ducks lined up for next season.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

The last 2 years 75 and 76 points were needed to clinch the 4th spot. Means we need about 50 out of 63 possible points in 21 games.
Something like 15 wins and 6 draws for example.

Thank you.

I'd argue that our season is about to begin.

Absolutely.

 

[Red Dreams]

We are in 2 cups still.
We have a lot of football still to play in the League too.

Of course the season is not over.

Ole and the team need to play for the supporters by giving their all for the club.
It starts Saturday.

 

[Damien]

The last 2 years 75 and 76 points were needed to clinch the 4th spot. Means we need about 50 out of 63 possible points in 21 games.
Something like 15 wins and 6 draws for example.

The last two years, the top four had combined points as follows after 17 games:
2017/18: 153 (fourth: 31)
2016/17: 150 (fourth: 34)

This season: 165 (fourth: 37)

We'll need more than 50 points to get there unless two teams above us collapse. Last season, Liverpool bridged the gap with Chelsea because Chelsea's players had fallen out with Conte plus Liverpool invested loads on van Dijk. There's no signs of any of the current top five showing discontent in their manager.

 

[Beagle]

Playing good football will be very welcome change. That is what we should be hoping for. Regardless of whether we win a trophy or finish top 4.

 

[AshRK]

Good thread. This season is far from a write off. Lots to play and lot of games to develop future players and give academy players chance to develop and show their skills. Top 4 may be a big ask but still not impossible. Cl may be a huge ask but still not impossible. FA cup is there and we better play to win that. Lot to play for and far from a write off

 

[NinjaFletch]

Thank you.



Absolutely.

Wait, are you genuinely arguing that 50 points from 21 games is particularly realistic? That's 2.3 points a game. Over the course of a season that would get you 90 points. That's a fairly decent title winning season. I can't be arsed to go back through it, but it would win you the league more seasons than not (apart from the two most recent ones and almost certainly this one).

Not to mention the fact that both 3rd and 4th place clubs have more points at this stage of the season than they did in the two years before.

If it happens it's an almost miraculous turn around and run of form from where we are now. You can see why people think it's a pipe dream.

 

[Tiber]

I imagine they saw the league table

 

[EwanI Ted]

This isn't about whether or not Ole is a good punt or just more cronyism, but why on Earth do people keep insisting that the 'Season is over'?

I keep reading this in pretty much every thread discussing United and our choices this season it's annoying me -

There are 20 gameweeks left out of 38 in the PL

We're in the last 16 of the Champion's League

We're in the 3rd Round of the F.A Cup with a home game against Reading

This narrative that the 'Season is practically over' is factually incorrect, annoying and also dangerous in lowering expectation.

People are repeating it a lot in regard to our choice of interim boss, and what our expectations should be and to me it seems a fairly obvious mantra to continue lowering standards.

The season isn't 'almost over' - it isn't even halfway through...

We're in 2 prestigious Cup competitions and with our wage bill and season ticket prices we should be aiming to win both.

And regarding the PL - there are 60 points left for us to play for, and we're 11 points from 4th. Bigger gaps than 11 points have been made up in 20 games, many times before.

Cmon people - have a word with yourselves.

Mate, 11 points behind with just 63 to play for is a gulf. Put it this way, if Chelsea get just 40 points from their remaining 21 games (they already have 37 from 17 games) we'd need 51 points from 63 to catch them. Which is like 15 wins, 6 draws and no defeats. I'm pretty sure I read this week that no team has made the top four from that far behind.

Nothing wrong with hoping for a Chelsea and arsenal collapse, but It's out of our hands and doesn't represent givIng up.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Over or not over, whatever you wanna call it what we shouldn’t be doing now is don’t put a lot of pressure on Ole, staffs and also players for the rest of the season.

All I care right now is some positivity and good or entertaining football to watch. I don’t expect them to get top 4, winning FA or even Champions League, that’s probably why some people defined it as “The season is over”.

If we somehow back again to the race of top 4 in March or in sem final champions league then we can say “it’s not over lads”.

 

[Kush]

That's crazy, I hope the club has higher standards - no offense meant to you with that, but to bring in a new manager and accept worse results than a manager just fired, because the new guy 'more likable' is insane.

You actually sum my feelings up, although knowing this place it won't be long before Ole's honeymoon period is over and people are calling him all sort of names under the sun.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

This isn't about whether or not Ole is a good punt or just more cronyism, but why on Earth do people keep insisting that the 'Season is over'?

I keep reading this in pretty much every thread discussing United and our choices this season it's annoying me -

There are 21 games left out of 38 in the PL

We're in the last 16 of the Champion's League

We're in the 3rd Round of the F.A Cup with a home game against Reading

This narrative that the 'Season is practically over' is factually incorrect, annoying and also dangerous in lowering expectation.

People are repeating it a lot in regard to our choice of interim boss, and what our expectations should be and to me it seems a fairly obvious mantra to continue lowering standards.

The season isn't 'almost over' - it isn't even halfway through...

We're in 2 prestigious Cup competitions and with our wage bill and season ticket prices we should be aiming to win both.

And regarding the PL - there are 60 points left for us to play for, and we're 11 points from 4th. Bigger gaps than 11 points have been made up in 20 games, many times before.

Cmon people - have a word with yourselves.

The top 4 is definitely gone,but the season isn’t over at all.We are still in 2 cup competitions and we need to obviously do everything that we can to go far in those competitions.The seasons definitely not over,but top 4 is gone...

 

[Leftback99]

The last 2 years 75 and 76 points were needed to clinch the 4th spot. Means we need about 50 out of 63 possible points in 21 games.
Something like 15 wins and 6 draws for example.

50 points/21 games=2.38 which is more points per game than we have managed in any Premier league season bar one (99-00, 2.39).

 

[RooneyLegend]

I think we're already making a mistake by hiring an interim manager cause we have to be planning for the future.

 

[Siorac]

I actually think in terms of Top 4 our best bet is to overhaul Tottenham rather than Chelsea or Arsenal. On the surface they are better placed but that small squad is going to bite them at some point and they could lose points in a hurry if Kane gets hurt at any point. I think they are the worst placed to cope with any sort of injury crisis and as an added benefit, if we do knock them out of the CL spots we improve our chances of tempting Poch to come here.

The thing is that we have to finish above two out of those three if we want top 4. So even if you turn out to be right about Spurs it won't be enough.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Mate, 11 points behind with just 63 to play for is a gulf. Put it this way, if Chelsea get just 40 points from their remaining 21 games (they already have 37 from 17 games) we'd need 51 points from 63 to catch them. Which is like 15 wins, 6 draws and no defeats. I'm pretty sure I read this week that no team has made the top four from that far behind.

Nothing wrong with hoping for a Chelsea and arsenal collapse, but It's out of our hands and doesn't represent givIng up.

Then there's the 2 cup competitions we're still in...

Not sure why top 4 is the only factor most people are mentioning, maybe they stopped reading after that, but my point is that between Top 4, the CL and F.A Cup - our season isn't 'literally over'.

We have a very good team - indeed most people criticized Mourinho (rightly) for playing down the quality we actually have and not letting them off the leash...

 

[EwanI Ted]

Then there's the 2 cup competitions we're still in...

Not sure why top 4 is the only factor most people are mentioning, maybe they stopped reading after that, but my point is that between Top 4, the CL and F.A Cup - our season isn't 'literally over'.

We have a very good team - indeed most people criticized Mourinho (rightly) for playing down the quality we actually have and not letting them off the leash...

Not saying there’s nothing to play for, just saying top 4 is pretty much a gonner.

 

[Adisa]

When people say the season is done, it's relative to our ambitions at the start.
We are 11 points behind 4th. That is not just 11 points. It's 11 points behind at least four teams that are playing well. Not only that, the team in 5th is also playing well. We would need two of those teams to collapse to get fourth, that's fecking unlikely. As for the champions league, we are massive, massive underdogs.
I don't think the lads saying the season is done are being pessimistic. I think the season is done but I'm still looking forward to it. People are just saying don't expect to achieve our objectives.

 

[The_Podgy_Poet]

Literally over? No. Practically over? Aside from the FA Cup, absolutely. In the league you are playing for pride and absolutely nothing else. You think you're going to average out 2.3 points a game? Please. Even if you were in such form until the end of the season, you would still require a collapse from either Spurs or Chelsea. You haven't averaged 2.3 points a game in most of your title winning seasons, and that would be needed as an absolute minimum. By all means though, continue to be fools regarding the league.

You have an absolutely massively greater chance of winning the CL than reaching top 4. Which means very little, given that your chances of winning that are very, very slim indeed. Slim, but not completely implausible simply as it's a cup competition and upsets happen. But man for man you're quite a lot weaker than several teams in the competition and it would be a monumental achievement to upset the odds, regardless of who is managing you right now.

 

[Damien]

And regarding the PL - there are 60 points left for us to play for, and we're 11 points from 4th. Bigger gaps than 11 points have been made up in 20 games, many times before.

Great. You'll be able to quote these many times then. Here is a post by Gandalf indicating otherwise. Me looking through the seasons after 17 games:

2018/19: United not in top four (by 11 points (on 26pts: 6th))

2017/18: Liverpool not in top four (on goal difference (on 31pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2016/17: Spurs not in top four (by one point (on 33pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2015/16: Same top four
2014/15: Arsenal not in top four (by four points (on 27pts: 6th)), made top four end of season
2013/14: Same top four
2012/13: Arsenal not in top four (by two points (on 27pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2011/12: Arsenal not in top four (by one point (on 32pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2010/11: Same top four
2009/10: Spurs not in top four (by two points (on 30pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2008/09: Arsenal not in top four (by one point (on 30pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2007/08: Liverpool not in top four (by three points (on 30pts: 5th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for others)), made top four end of season
2006/07: Liverpool not in top four (on goal difference (on 28pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2005/06: Arsenal not in top four (by five points (on 26pts: 8th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for most others)), made top four end of season
2004/05: Same top four
2003/04: Liverpool not in top four (by four points (on 22pts: 9th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for others)), made top four end of season
2002/03: Newcastle not in top four (by three points (on 28pts: 6th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for others)), made top four end of season
2001/02: Man Utd not in top four (by three points (on 27pts: 6th)), made top four end of season
2000/01: Liverpool not in top four (by two points (on 27pts: 6th)) AND Leeds not in top four (by seven points (on 22pts: 12th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for rest)), made top four end of season

We're not saying the season is completely and utterly over with, but realistically top four is. The league campaign is a pretty big chunk of the remainder of the season so guess those saying that it is practically done, means that there is only really the cups to compete in.

 

[Minimalist]

The season is over for the league christ sake.

 

[Adisa]

I think we're already making a mistake by hiring an interim manager cause we have to be planning for the future.

Planning for the future is precisely why we brought in an interim.

 

[Gomes]

Neither Arsenal nor Totteham have been good this season. If United suddenly improves and they won't then there doesn't need to be any collapses. Their luck isn't endless.

 

[ottosec]

The league is over. It's not only that we are 11 points behind 4th(12 with our shit GD) and we need an insane run to have a chance, we also need two teams ahead of us to collapse.

 

[Will Singh]

I really think think top 4 is a goal to get our lads pumped and motivated, if Mou lost the dressing room which the reports are probably true then the lads have got what they wanted and go for it!

 

[Revaulx]

Agree with the OP. It’ll take a miracle to get top four, but there’s no reason not to give it a go.

And not just because the players have almost certainly been underperforming. The number of comebacks the team has pulled off in recent months makes me wonder whether they are as “mentally weak” as some people delight in telling us.

 

[Bwuk]

I actually think we’ve got more chance at winning the champions league via fluke than top 4.

We won’t finish top 4 or win the CL. Hopefully get a Europa League spot.

 

[Random Task]

I actually think we’ve got more chance at winning the champions league via fluke than top 4.

"And Solskjaer has won it.... again"

Credit @DavidDeSchmikes

 

[RooneyLegend]

Planning for the future is precisely why we brought in an interim.

Nope, it's a way to let time pass by before making a proper appointment. There's enough managerial talent out for us to make a permanent appointment and all them to sort out the future plans.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Great. You'll be able to quote these many times then. Here is a post by Gandalf indicating otherwise. Me looking through the seasons after 17 games:

2018/19: United not in top four (by 11 points (on 26pts: 6th))

2017/18: Liverpool not in top four (on goal difference (on 31pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2016/17: Spurs not in top four (by one point (on 33pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2015/16: Same top four
2014/15: Arsenal not in top four (by four points (on 27pts: 6th)), made top four end of season
2013/14: Same top four
2012/13: Arsenal not in top four (by two points (on 27pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2011/12: Arsenal not in top four (by one point (on 32pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2010/11: Same top four
2009/10: Spurs not in top four (by two points (on 30pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2008/09: Arsenal not in top four (by one point (on 30pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2007/08: Liverpool not in top four (by three points (on 30pts: 5th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for others)), made top four end of season
2006/07: Liverpool not in top four (on goal difference (on 28pts: 5th)), made top four end of season
2005/06: Arsenal not in top four (by five points (on 26pts: 8th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for most others)), made top four end of season
2004/05: Same top four
2003/04: Liverpool not in top four (by four points (on 22pts: 9th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for others)), made top four end of season
2002/03: Newcastle not in top four (by three points (on 28pts: 6th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for others)), made top four end of season
2001/02: Man Utd not in top four (by three points (on 27pts: 6th)), made top four end of season
2000/01: Liverpool not in top four (by two points (on 27pts: 6th)) AND Leeds not in top four (by seven points (on 22pts: 12th - but with 16 games compared to 17 for rest)), made top four end of season

We're not saying the season is completely and utterly over with, but realistically top four is. The league campaign is a pretty big chunk of the remainder of the season so guess those saying that it is practically done, means that there is only really the cups to compete in.

I'm not really sure why the kick-back is so great with what is essentially a positive thread...

What I've said is that, "Bigger gaps than 11 points have been made up in 21 games, many times before." - I'm not specifically talking about teams making up 11 points and then making top 4, I'm simply saying that 11 points can be made up over 21 games.

Whether that be teams escaping relegation or trying to get into Europe or win a league isn't really the point - it's simply that it's not an impossible task at this point ("the season is literally over at this point" etc).

Though I'd add that I don't think many people (if they're honest) thought we were gonna challenge for the PL on the first day of the season after the Summer anyway, so if all we were ever really expecting was Top 4, is it that big a loss...?

The bigger points for me, that I'd prefer to be held to, are that I firmly think that the CL and F.A Cup should be approached with the belief that we can win them both.

As I posted earlier, we have a squad filled with really talented players on huge wages, and Mourinho was (rightly) criticized for constantly making out that he needed more to compete...

Now many of those same posters are claiming that the "season is practically over", and we have nothing to play for when it's simply not true, at all.

The CL, F.A Cup and a mathematical chance at 4th is not a season over - that's my point.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I'm not really sure why the kick-back is so great with what is essentially a positive thread...

What I've said is that, "Bigger gaps than 11 points have been made up in 21 games, many times before." - I'm not specifically talking about teams making up 11 points and then making top 4, I'm simply saying that 11 points can be made up over 21 games.

Whether that be teams escaping relegation or trying to get into Europe or win a league isn't really the point - it's simply that it's not an impossible task at this point ("the season is literally over at this point" etc).

Though I'd add that I don't think many people (if they're honest) thought we were gonna challenge for the PL on the first day of the season after the Summer anyway, so if all we were ever really expecting was Top 4, is it that big a loss...?

The bigger points for me, that I'd prefer to be held to, are that I firmly think that the CL and F.A Cup should be approached with the belief that we can win them both.

As I posted earlier, we have a squad filled with really talented players on huge wages, and Mourinho was (rightly) criticized for constantly making out that he needed more to compete...

Now many of those same posters are claiming that the "season is practically over", and we have nothing to play for when it's simply not true, at all.

The CL, F.A Cup and a mathematical chance at 4th is not a season over - that's my point.

Anything is possible in football mate and with a huge slice of luck we could still finish the season semi-respectably with a trophy in the cabinet.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Anything is possible in football mate and with a huge slice of luck we could still finish the season semi-respectably with a trophy in the cabinet.

Exactly.

We're Man Utd, not Cardiff.